Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Jan, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. Jan

    Jan Guest

    http://tinyurl.com/z8r9

    Complementary medicine growing by leaps and bounds : PC-SPES, other supplements for prostate disease
    show gains in popularity, credibility. Urology Times, August, 1999, by Norman Bauman

    Dallas-After years of rejection and skepticism, physicians are finally beginning to accept
    complementary and alternative medicine-if the evidence is there.

    William R. Fair, MD, who used complementary medical techniques during his own bout with colon
    cancer, addressed the subject head on during a plenary session at the AUA meeting here. Dr. Fair,
    director of the Bendheim Prostate Diagnostic Center, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New
    York, gave examples of controversial therapies that are showing promise in rigorous scientific
    studies, including PC-SPES, vitamin E, selenium, and low-fat diets for prostate cancer, and saw
    palmetto for BPH.

    "My introduction to complementary and alternative medicine was by necessity," said Dr. Fair,
    referring to his fight against cancer. "What I gleaned from this, with surprise, was how much
    science really exists in the field. While it's true that there are a lot of unknowns and a lot of
    things that need more exploration, that's also true of allopathic medicine. An estimated 15% of what
    we do is really evidence- based."

    Dr. Fair prefers to call it "complementary medicine" rather than "alternative medicine." He believes
    the term "alternative" implies something other than standard medicine, whereas "complementary"
    suggests using these therapies in addition to traditional medicine. Diet, supplementation,
    exercise, and stress reduction "really should be part of standard medicine," he said.

    Urologists must keep up

    "The growth of complementary and alternative medicine is real," said Dr. Fair. "It's being driven by
    patients, and we have to keep up with it. The demand is growing, and if we're not aware, the parade
    will pass us by. In 1997, there were more patient visits to providers of alternative and
    complementary medicine than there were to primary care physicians in the U.S."

    Ds. Fair was citing a recent study by David Eisenberg, MD, of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center,
    Boston, and colleagues (JAMA 1998; 280:1569-75). According to the study, 46% of the American
    population uses alternative medicine, but less than 40% of those individuals have told their
    physicians.

    However, one skeptic challenged those numbers. Stephen Barrett, MD, a retired psychiatrist who
    operates the Quackwatch web site (www.quackwatch.com), charged that Dr. Eisenberg "classified things
    as alternative that are part of standard practice so he could pump up his numbers." For example, Dr.
    Eisenberg's study included relaxation techniques-"which have been part of standard psychological
    practice for years," said Dr. Barrett-along with massage and self-help groups.

    Dt. Barrett was a reviewer for two other articles in the JAMA issue in which
    Du. Eisenberg's study appeared. The issue was devoted mainly to discussions of alternative and
    complementary medicine.

    (Quack Barrett isn't qualified to review)

    The Wall Street Journal estimated the annual market for complementary and alternative medicine at
    $50 billion, said Dr. Fair. Dr. Eisenberg, meanwhile, estimated 1997 out-of-pocket expenditures for
    such therapies to be $27 to $34 billion, or about equal to the $29 billion in out-of- pocket
    expenditures on physician services.
     
    Tags:


  2. "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > The Wall Street Journal estimated the annual market for complementary and alternative medicine at
    > $50 billion, said Dr. Fair. Dr. Eisenberg,
    meanwhile,
    > estimated 1997 out-of-pocket expenditures for such therapies to be $27 to
    $34
    > billion, or about equal to the $29 billion in out-of- pocket expenditures
    on
    > physician services.

    The altie quacks are grossing $50 billion, but they can't afford to prove their stuff safe and
    effective? Hmm.

    --Rich
     
  3. Eric Bohlman

    Eric Bohlman Guest

    [email protected] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > http://tinyurl.com/z8r9

    When posting URLs created by tinyurl or makeashorterlink, it's a good idea to *also* post the
    original URL.

    > Complementary medicine growing by leaps and bounds : PC-SPES, other supplements for prostate
    > disease show gains in popularity, credibility. Urology Times, August, 1999, by Norman Bauman

    [snip to the only point that I'm addressing here]

    > Dr. Fair prefers to call it "complementary medicine" rather than "alternative medicine." He
    > believes the term "alternative" implies something other than standard medicine, whereas
    > "complementary" suggests using these therapies in addition to traditional medicine. Diet,
    > supplementation, exercise, and stress reduction "really should be part of standard medicine,"
    > he said.

    1) Note that there's no mention of people turning *away* from conventional medicine in favor of
    alternative/complementary medicine; in fact, quite the opposite.

    2) Note that none of the things he said "really should be part of standard medicine" are truly
    "alternative." Mainstream doctors have been making diet and exercise recommendations for ages,
    and stress-reduction techniques are pretty well-accepted, if not used as often as they could be.
    Some aspects of supplementation could be considered "alternative" although they aren't associated
    with mysticism and anti-rationalism the way, say, Hulda Clark's practices or the chiropractic
    doctrine of subluxations are.

    BTW, it was discovered that the reason PC-SPES showed signs of effectiveness is that it was actually
    deliberately adulterated with a prescription pharmaceutical drug.
     
  4. Jan

    Jan Guest

    >Subject: Re: Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds
    >From: Eric Bohlman [email protected]
    >Date: 12/15/2003 7:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >[email protected] (Jan) wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >
    >> http://tinyurl.com/z8r9
    >
    >When posting URLs created by tinyurl or makeashorterlink, it's a good idea to *also* post the
    >original URL.

    I don't see why since the tiny one takes you to it.

    >> Complementary medicine growing by leaps and bounds : PC-SPES, other supplements for prostate
    >> disease show gains in popularity, credibility. Urology Times, August, 1999, by Norman Bauman

    >[snip to the only point that I'm addressing here]
    >

    > Dr. Fair prefers to call it "complementary medicine" rather than
    >> "alternative medicine." He believes the term "alternative" implies something other than standard
    >> medicine, whereas "complementary" suggests using these therapies in addition to traditional
    >> medicine. Diet, supplementation, exercise, an
    stress reduction "really should
    >> be part of standard medicine," he said.

    >1) Note that there's no mention of people turning *away* from conventional medicine in favor of
    > alternative/complementary medicine; in fact, quite the
    opposite.

    That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both to work together.

    Jan

    >2) Note that none of the things he said "really should be part of standard medicine" are truly
    > "alternative." Mainstream doctors have been making diet and exercise recommendations for ages,
    > and stress-reduction techniques are pretty well-accepted, if not used as often as they could be.
    > Some aspects of supplementation could be considered "alternative" although they aren't
    > associated with mysticism and anti-rationalism the way, say, Hulda Clark's practices or the
    > chiropractic doctrine of subluxations are.
    >
    >BTW, it was discovered that the reason PC-SPES showed signs of effectiveness is that it was
    >actually deliberately adulterated with a prescription pharmaceutical drug.
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  5. Eric Bohlman

    Eric Bohlman Guest

    [email protected] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    >>When posting URLs created by tinyurl or makeashorterlink, it's a good idea to *also* post the
    >>original URL.
    >
    > I don't see why since the tiny one takes you to it.

    For a couple reasons:

    1) There's no guarantee that the link-shortening services will stay in business or that they won't
    eventually start expiring their shortcuts, yet Usenet posts are likely to be archived for a long
    time. Including the original URL means that someone reading an archived post in the future would
    be able to find it even if the shortened URL broke.

    2) The original URL can tell you a lot about what you're going to encounter. For example, some
    people might not want to load a PDF document, or might not be able to load a Microsoft Word
    document, and the original URL can tell them if that's going to be the case. The shortened URLs,
    OTOH, don't convey any information about the nature of the resource.

    >>1) Note that there's no mention of people turning *away* from conventional medicine in favor of
    >> alternative/complementary medicine; in fact, quite the
    > opposite.
    >
    > That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both to work together.

    You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning *away* from conventional
    medicine and using alternative medicine *in place of* it.
     
  6. Eric Bohlman

    Eric Bohlman Guest

    [email protected] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    >>You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning *away* from conventional
    >>medicine and using alternative medicine *in place of* it.
    >
    > Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.

    After doing a Google search, I have to revise my assertion to "you have on several occasions posted
    articles written by others that claim that people are turning *away* from conventional medicine and
    using alternative medicine *in place of* it. You have not commented on those claims." You made such
    a post as recently as two months ago:

    Lines: 166 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
    Date: 14 Oct 2003 05:47:44 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Turning Away From
    Conventional MD's Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    http://faculty.valenciacc.edu/ckatz/pathfinders/alternative%20medicine.htm

    SCOPE: An increasing number of people are turning away from conventional MDs and turning to
    unconventional medicine such as acupuncture, hypnosis, homeopathy, biofeedback, and the like. The
    cause of this movement toward alternative medicine is a topic of debate. So too is the efficacy of
    the individual techniques. Extreme opponents of alternative medicine claim practitioners are quacks
    practicing medical fraud. Others insist the techniques are legitimate and should at least be offered
    to patients and even be reimbursed by insurance.

    [remainder of post snipped: the Message-ID will enable anyone who wants to see the full post to
    retrieve it]
     
  7. "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > >>
    > >> That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both to work together.
    > >
    > >You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning *away* from
    > >conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in
    place
    > >of* it.
    >
    > Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.

    I thought I might help you out a little to remind you of what you've stated. No need to thank me.

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "...when one has exhausted the conventional route and found no answers, they turn to
    alternative medicine. Many have found the answer been treated and are regaining their health.
    It's called RESULTS."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "Or one can turn to alternative medicine and find an answer,,,,,,,,,,,,and that is WHY one half of
    people are turning to alternative medicine."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "ONE of the MAIN reasons people turn to alternative medicine, is because conv. medicine HAS NO
    ANSWERS,,,,,,,,,,,,"

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "Defects of conventional medicine are just one more reason to turn to alternative medicine, and stay
    OUT of hospitals."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "Furthmore, have you any clue as to WHY people are turning to alternative??

    BECASE THEY ARE DISSATIFIED WITH CONVENTIONAL MEDIC!NE!!!"

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "When conv. has no answers, it's time to turn to alternative. Many are finding answers and treatment
    that is working."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "And many times they get NO diagnoses because it isn't in the recipe book. Many people turn to
    alternative because conv. has no answers."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "Their *real* doctor? The reason most people are turning to AM is because their conv. doctor has NO
    answers, because REAL conditions are being denied."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "In many cases conv. medicine has no answers, that's because many *real* diseases are denied.

    People tuurn to alternative to get to the *root* of the problem."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "You will find that most people are turning to alternative because conventional medicine has
    no answers."
     
  8. Happy Oyster

    Happy Oyster Guest

    On 15 Dec 2003 23:47:29 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    >Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.
    >
    >Jan

    Well, if you say so. Here are some proofs about what Jan Drew wrote :

    FAQ about Jan Drew's advertizing for quackery
    *********************************************

    Updated, December, 16th., 2003

    Hello,

    in this and other news-groups a person who calls himself Jan Drew, is massively
    advertizing quackery.

    1. List of Web-Sites Jan Drew is advertizing for
    2. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
    3. Cui bono ? Mercola disguises as "Jan Drew"
    4. Jan Drew confesses his forgeries
    5. A look at Jan Drew's list of lies with URLs (internet links)
    6. Jan Drew works for Scientology
    7. Jan Drew works for Hulda Clark
    8. "$KaChing is Working!!"
    9. Deadly fraud in the healthcare system
    10. "The Importance of Mass Name Calling"
    11. Jan Drew and the Attack on the WTC, Jan Drew's Antisemitism
    12. The "Jew boy" case
    13. Jan Drew Lied About Having Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams
    14. The foul language of Jan Drew
    15. Jan Drew's rhetorical warfare
    16. Children die because of criminals like Jan Drew

    17. List of Web-Sites Jan Drew is advertizing for
    ################################################

    [naturopath mafia-based] http://www.800ga.com/parasites.htm
    http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mecfs/general/parasites.html http://www.all-natural.com/holistic.html
    http://www.yourhealthbase.com/alternative_medicine.html
    http://www.doctortalk.com/cancer_&_oxygen.php http://www.alternativemedicine.com/digest/issue22/i22-
    a12.shtml http://thinktwice.com/ploys.htm

    http://www.healingwithnutrition.com/cdisease/cardiovascular/vitce.html
    http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces/chelation%20bill.htm

    http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Healthology/sept11HS_508939AlternativeCancerTreatments020910.-
    html http://www.curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=73 http://www.aznetnews.com/story.php?storyid=375
    http://www.hospitalsantamonica.com/id45.htm http://www.holistic-dentistry.com/artamalgam.asp
    http://www.hugnet.com/protocol.html http://www.heart-disease-bypass-surgery.com/data/articles/63.htm
    http://www.mercola.com http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net

    [Scientology-based articles]

    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/04/16/loc_drugging_our_kids.html
    http://www.antipsychiatry.org/drsmith1.htm

    (List will be updated)

    18. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
    ######################################################

    Nicknames and names of persons who help Jan Drew in his scam, or perhaps are nothing but other masks
    of Mercola :

    "Dave" <[email protected]> "Rod" <[email protected]> "Teacher" <[email protected]>
    "David" <[email protected]> "ChuckMSRD" [email protected] "Anth" <[email protected]>

    This list will be updated.
    Note: ALL supporters of Jan Drew will be entered in this list !

    Keep in mind these very true words :

    On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:10:32 GMT, Rich<,@.> wrote in misc.health.alternative :

    <quote> [...] There is one positive aspect of having Jan Drew post here though; if someone supports
    her then you can be sure that this person cannot be trusted either. Anyone who reads Jan Drew's
    bigoted, hateful and dishonest posts and supports her tells you much about their own integrity.

    And you can be reasonably certain that Jan Drew is reading all the posts of the people she claims
    that she has kill filed. The only reason that she kill files people is to give her plausible
    deniability in her failure to reconcile her contradictory statements that are frequently brought up
    to her. </quote>

    3. Cui bono ?
    ##############

    A strong clue on who is responsible for the criminal deeds are the connections to those who cash in
    the money.

    Mercola and Klinghardt are known charlatans. Jan Drew advertizes for them. But Jan Drew does more
    than that !

    A posting from Jan Drew into news:misc.health.alternative impressively demonstrates the background :

    <quote> Lines: 40 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative Date: 29 Aug 2003 20:19:06 GMT References:
    <[email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re:
    The Greatest Lie Ever Told Message-ID: <[email protected]> Xref:
    news.freenet.de misc.health.alternative:313197

    >Subject: Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Told From: "Anth" [email protected] Date: 8/29/2003 1:26 AM Pacific
    >Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >She does? Anth

    >
    >"Happy Oyster" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >> Jan Drew abuses the works of honorable scientists. Jan Drew mixes up true facts with naturopath
    >> nonsense and this way forces people to buy quackery.
    >>
    >> Jan Drew walks over bodies. Don't let them be yours!

    Well now, that fits right in with the greatest lie ever told.

    I posted a website. I mixed nothing, I abused nothing, I adsvertize nothing, I have never forced
    people to do anything.

    Happy is the liar, making all kinds of false statements

    When in fact it tells on the website, the many works of different researchers.

    Dr. Vimy holds the rank of Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medicine
    at the University of Calgary

    Ds. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
    release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
    this year for further information on mercury detoxification.

    Jan

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the
    people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein </quote>

    Jan Drew writes IN HIS OWN WORDS, with himself as the center person of the text :

    <quote> When in fact it tells on the website, the many works of different researchers.

    Dt. Vimy holds the rank of Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medicine
    at the University of Calgary

    Du. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
    release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
    this year for ************************************************************* +++ further
    information on mercury detoxification.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Jan </quote>

    So Jan Drew published an article together with Klinghardt.

    Now, WHO IS "JAN DREW" !?

    A clue can be found by searching for news postings by Jan Drew containing the word "Klinghardt",
    dated "earlier this year".

    We find a posting dated "09 Feb 2003 00:29:57 GMT" : (Underlign marks made by me.)

    <quote> X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
    Date: 09 Feb 2003 00:29:57 GMT References: <[email protected]>
    Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Mercury Toxicity Message-ID: <[email protected]
    cf.aol.com>

    http://www.mercola.com/article/mercury/mercury_elimination.htm

    Mercury

    Toxicity and Systemic Elimination Agents

    The following paper has been a long time in the making. I first wrote it nearly three years ago and
    it was initially rejected by the Lancet and the British Medical Journal but was published last month
    in the Journal of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine (March 2001). The end of the article has
    the bibliography which took quite awhile to compile and has 124 of the best literature documentation
    I could find on mercury detoxification. For a practical summary of the paper and exactly what one
    should do, please review my mercury detoxification protocol. Dr. Klinghardt is widely recognized as
    one of the most
    **************
    knowledgeable physicians in mercury detoxification and it was a
    ********
    privilege to be able to help him with this paper.
    *************************************************
    <quote>

    Jan Drew (remember the "I" !) here completely copies an article --- written by Mercola TOGETHER with
    Klinghardt.

    This article is "on mercury detoxification".

    So we can strongly say that "Jan Drew" actually is Mercola.

    Mercola is writing masses of articles, and he pours out an enourmous mass of advertizing for his
    charlatan comrades, boosting his and their sales...

    4. Jan Drew confesses his forgeries
    ###################################

    In the following posting Jan Drew confesses to have taken someone else's words and posted them in
    the net as his, Jan Drew's, own words
    :

    <quote> Path: news.freenet.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!easynews.net!newsfeed3.easynews.net!newsfeed.arcor-
    online.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-
    t.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-
    m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 28 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan)
    Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 18 Nov 2003 04:13:48 GMT References:
    <[email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Jan
    Drew is a forger Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    >From: Happy Oyster [email protected] Date: 11/17/2003 4:17 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-
    >id: <[email protected]>

    Happy is not playing with a full deck.

    As anyone can see this bit about me being Mercola is absurd.

    http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/18/ada.htm

    <snip>

    Dv. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:
    Dw. Vimy is one of the top mercury researchers in the world and his comments to the ADA press
    release are most informative. You can review the article I published with Dr. Klinghardt earlier
    this year for further information on mercury detoxification. Thanks to Jeff Green of Citizens
    for Health for sending this very interesting timeline regarding the dental use of mercury.

    Took 16 seconds to find it.

    I have posted it previously.

    Jan

    Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain </quote>

    So, far all to see, Jan Drew confesses to have taken Mercola's words, and to have have posted them
    as his, Jan Drew's very own words.

    Do not forget the "I", by which Jan Drew makes these words HIS VERY OWN.

    5. A look at Jan Drew's list of lies with URLs (internet links)
    ###############################################################

    A great deal of Jan Drew's postings are lists of URLs (internet links to web-pages). Jan Drew
    selects those pages and only takes those which seed fear and hatred against scientific medicine.

    Jan Drew defames scientific medicine as "Evil Organized Medizine".

    In a posting of november 5th., 2003, Dr. Steve shows what such a list really contains :

    <quote> From: "Dr. Steve" <[email protected]> Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
    References: <[email protected]>
    <[email protected]> Subject: Re: 3rd Opinion - Root Canal Question Message-ID:
    <r9hqb.7825$P%[email protected]> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 01:07:35 GMT

    . "Ja," <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >If jdrmmm,,,,[email protected] (Jan) responds you may wish to consider the
    source.
    >
    > I wasn't going to respond, but now that this has been said, do consider
    the
    > source and see the source of each website.
    >
    > http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm

    A site making money on people's fear of Hg poisoning. Just a dental office in Nepal.

    > http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm

    An Australian dentist with a really bad wig. Trying to make money on people's fear of Hg poisoning.

    > http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html

    A letter written to Dr. Huggins, with no proof it was ever mailed. The dental links on the home page
    lead to a Dr. Nara's web page. They sell books on th evils of Hg in dentistry.

    > http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html

    Web page of Dr. Shankland who is selling books. He likes to quote Dr. Price's research from 1918 and
    ignore all the research since then.

    > http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm

    An anedotal report by some lay-person who bought a book by Dr. Meinig and hopes you will buy one his
    books too.

    > http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm

    A web site that just sells a book.

    > http://www.cfsn.com/maz/

    An advertisement for Melisa Medica Foundation selling (guess what?) disguised as some unfortunate
    souls suffering personal story.

    > http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html

    Advertisement for the Blazing Tattles Newsletteer (they sell this) once again disquised as a story.

    > http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

    Another advertisement for Dr. Meining's book.

    > http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

    Another link to the Nepal dental office.

    > http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html

    Dr, Meining again.

    > http://www.toothwisdom.net/

    Link to a dental office with a legal disclaimer section two pages long

    > http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html

    A link to asome guy's dental office who has no idea of current dental thinking.

    > http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html

    Guess what? A site to sell books.

    > http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm

    This guy is selling a special diet.

    > http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

    Link to a dental office in the UK which sells,,,,,,,,,,,, did you guess? A BOOK!!!!

    Now I see why I prefer to filter ja. dre.. posts

    PLEASE, any lay people reading this, understand this lady/man/posting program refered to as ja. dre.
    and a bunch of numbers reminiscent of Disney's Stitch character,,,,,, lies,,,, and tries to get you
    to spoil your health and spend all your money on bogus treatment which NOT improve your health in
    any way. </quote>

    6. Jan Drew works for Scientology
    #################################

    This is one of the examples where you can see, how Jan Drew defends Scientology. Jan Drew CLAIMS to
    be interested in naturopathy, but actually Jan Drew is an advertizing agency. Jan Drew's behavior is
    typical for this breed...

    Example 1: <quote> X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative Date: 21 Sep 2003 00:40:47 GMT References:
    <[email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re:
    "Psychbusters" = CCHR = $cientology Cult FRONT Message-ID: <[email protected]
    m06.aol.com>

    >Subject: "Psychbusters" = CCHR = $cientology Cult FRONT From: Nomen Nescio [email protected] Date:
    >9/20/2003 1:20 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]izum.com>
    >
    >$cientology member

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    zzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZ
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz </quote>

    Example 2: <quote> X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative Date: 22 Sep 2003 02:51:58 GMT References:
    <[email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Scientology's
    advertising in these newsgroups Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    >Subject: Scientology's advertising in these newsgroups From: [email protected] (Fredric L.
    >Rice) Date: 9/21/2003 12:33 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    ><[email protected]>
    >
    >You might have read a posting by some anonymous Scientologist

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    zzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz </quote>

    Example 3: <quote> X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative Date: 22 Sep 2003 02:53:00 GMT References:
    <[email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: What is
    $cientology? - A posting by an ex-member to answer reports of recent Scientology postings Message-
    ID: <[email protected]>

    > What is $cientology?

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZ
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ </quote>

    Example 4: <quote> From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 06 Oct
    2003 05:29:16 GMT References: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Committee On
    House Reform - ADHD Drugs Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    >Subject: Re: Committee On House Reform - ADHD Drugs From: Peter Bowditch [email protected]
    >Date: 10/5/2003 9:10 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    ><[email protected]>
    >
    >[email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    >
    >>TESTIMONY BY LISA MARIE PRESLEY INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR CHILDREN'S RIGHTS, FOR CITIZENS
    >>COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS
    >INTERNATIONAL
    >
    >A Scientologist appearing on behalf of a Scientology front group. Now that's something you don't
    >see every day.

    Umm, you are seeing ADHD hearings.

    Listen up, rather than the same ole same ole of the Scientology excuses.

    You are an intolerant fascist bigot. </quote>

    7. Jan Drew works for Hulda Clark
    #################################

    In a posting dated november, 16th, 2003, Jan Drew advertizes for Hulda Clark, a known criminal
    charlatan.

    The "zapper" does not kill bacteria. The claims by Jan Drew are outrageous lies.

    <quote> Lines: 47 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative Date: 16 Nov 2003 07:00:50 GMT References: <Go-dnVn9E-
    [email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Zapper kills
    infectious bacteria Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-
    Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    >Subject: Zapper kills infectious bacteria From: "f®Èé RådicaL" [email protected] Date: 11/15/2003
    >10:52 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >Hi all. I'd like to report that I've used a zapper for a few years now and it does seem to work on
    >infectious bacteria, based on my experience.
    >
    >I originally built a zapper (I have a degree in electrical engineering) from Radio Shack parts
    >using the plans in Hulda Clark's book. I tried it for awhile to kill intestinal parasites and then
    >stopped using it. A few years later I developed a high fever with a serious left ear infection to
    >the point where I could feel pressure on the ear drum. I decided to try the zapper. I ran it for
    >about 10 minutes holding the copper electrodes in my hands. About an hour later, green pus started
    >coming out of my left tear duct. Obviously, the bacteria in the ear or tear duct were dying in
    >great numbers, creating the resultant pus which was forced out the tear duct. This alarmed me (I
    >didn't completely trust the zapper at that point) and ran to the doctor for antibiotics, to be on
    >the safe side.
    >
    >I have since used a zapper whenever I feel a fever or scratchy throat coming on, or when a lot of
    >people are getting sick at the office. Typically the fever/scratchy throat is gone overnight after
    >using it. It still takes some time to get over the feeling of being sick, but at least the zapper
    >keeps the infection under control so I don't need to run to the doctor anymore for antibiotics. For
    >me the worst part of being sick is the fever, which the zapper seems to break very quickly.
    >
    >Does anyone else (besides the usual anti-quackers) in this group have anything of interest to
    >report about using a zapper? I suggest the skeptics build or buy one and try it on themselves
    >before dismissing it outright. BTW I don't have any financial interest in Hulda Clark or any zapper-
    >related products.

    Yes, my hubby built one, then later I bought one that clips on to free up your hands. It works for
    most any condition you feel coming on. It works for parasites just as she says, it also works on my
    doggy. I also have no financial interest, however I do know Hulda personally, as her son was in my
    daycare years ago. She may be wrong about some things, she is 100% correct about the teeth. She is a
    loving and caring very fine person.

    You may be attacked, ignore them.

    Jan

    Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain </quote>

    And Jan Drew continues with libelling and defaming his critics.

    As I said above, the "zapper" does not kill bacteria. The claims by Jan Drew are outrageous lies.
    The FTC states in

    http://www.ftc.gov/os/2003/01/drclarkcmp.htm

    <quote> DEFENDANTS' VIOLATIONS OF THE FTC ACT

    8. Section 5(a) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 45(a), prohibits deceptive acts or practices in or
    affecting commerce. Section 12(a) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 52(a), prohibits the dissemination
    of any false advertisement in or affecting commerce for the purpose of inducing, or which is
    likely to induce, the purchase of food, drugs, devices or cosmetics. As set forth below,
    defendants have engaged and are continuing to engage in such unlawful practices in connection
    with the marketing and sale of various products, including the Super-Zapper Deluxe, Syncrometer,
    the Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers, and the Complete Herbal Parasite
    Program, (also called the Herbal Parasite Cleanse).

    9. Through their advertising and promotional materials, including, but not limited to, the
    representations set forth in Paragraph 12, above, and through the use of their Internet
    websites, "www.drclark.net" and "www.drclark.com" defendants have represented expressly or by
    implication that:

    a.  Use of the Super-Zapper Deluxe is effective to kill bacteria, viruses and parasites in the
    human body;  
    b.  Use of the Super-Zapper Deluxe is effective against chronic infections, cancer and Acquired
    Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS);  
    c.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe and the Complete Herbal Parasite Program, are effective to cure all
    forms of cancer in humans;  
    d.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers is effective to cure all forms of cancer
    in humans;  
    e.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers has cured numerous people with advanced
    cases of cancer;  
    f.  The Syncrometer device is more accurate than the best testing methods at diagnosing all forms of
    disease;  
    g.  The Syncrometer device can detect the presence of any substance at specific points in the
    human body.  
    h.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe, used together with the Complete Herbal Parasite Program, is effective
    to cure AIDS;  
    i.  The Super-Zapper Deluxe, used together with the Complete Herbal Parasite Program and avoidance
    of pollutants, is effective to cure diabetes, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's, endometriosis,
    asthma and many other diseases.  
    j.  Dr. Clark's New 21 Day Program for Advanced Cancers and Super-Zapper Deluxe, when used by
    persons with cancer, make surgery and chemotherapy unnecessary.

    15. Defendants did not possess and rely upon a reasonable basis that substantiated the
    representations set forth in Paragraph 14, above, at the time the representations were made.
    Therefore, the making of the representations set forth in Paragraph 14, above, is deceptive and
    constitutes false advertising for a food, drug or device, in violation of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C.
    §§ 45(a), 52 and 55.

    CONSUMER INJURY

    16. As a result of defendants' unlawful acts or practices, consumers throughout the United States
    have suffered and continue to suffer monetary loss and possible injuries to their health.
    Defendants also have been unjustly enriched as a result of their unlawful practices. Absent
    injunctive relief by this Court, the defendants are likely to continue to injure consumers, reap
    unjust enrichment and harm the public interest.

    THIS COURT'S POWER TO GRANT RELIEF

    17. Section 13(b) of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. § 53(b), authorizes this Court to grant injunctive and
    other equitable relief, including consumer redress, disgorgement and restitution, to prevent and
    remedy any violations of any provision of law enforced by the Commission. </quote>

    The full text is too long to include it in this usenet posting.

    Here a detail, found in http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clark.html :

    <quote> The FTC's case was supported by three lengthy affidavits that dissected and thoroughly
    debunked Hulda Clark's theories and treatments. Among other things:

    Aron Primack, M.D., a cancer specialist who is Associate Professor of Preventive Medicine and
    Biometrics at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland,
    stated that, Hulda Clark's books "do not provide competent and reliable evidence" to support her
    claims [19]. --> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clarkaff/primack.html

    Peter W. Pappas, Ph.D., a prominent parasitologist and Professor Emeritis at the Ohio State
    University, stated (a) although cancer and AIDS are found worldwide, the parasite Clark blames
    for them is limited to South East Asia; (b) "Clark's 'case histories' represent an egregious
    example of a highly biased experimental protocol, and her theories are based on bad science"; and
    (c) "She clearly does not have a basic understanding of the most fundamental parasitological
    principles." [20] -->
    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clarkaff/pappas.html

    Joseph Pizzorno, N.D., the nation's top naturopath, stated that, "No research is presented
    demonstrating that the Zapper has any physiological effects, let alone ability to kill parasites
    or cure cancer. The claim that mild electrical shocks to the skin can eliminate intestinal
    parasites is, frankly, preposterous." [21] -->
    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clarkaff/pizzorno.html </quote>

    As you can see, Hulda Clark is a criminal. The Hulda Clark sales company was sentenced because of
    the zapper stuff, the very same zapper stuff Jan Drew in his posting claims to work.

    So, for all clear to see :

    Jan Drew supports a criminal, AND Jan Drew even tells the very same
    ******************************************************************
    lies the US Court has expressively forbidden.
    *********************************************

    18. Rich Shewmaker: "$KaChing is Working!!"
    ##########################################

    In his posting Rich Shewmaker explains some of the backgounds of the "$KaChing"...

    <quote> From: "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject:
    $KaChing is Working!! Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:47:29 -1000 Message-ID:
    <[email protected]>

    Quackwatch Ratbags

    July $100* $70 August 38 20 September 28 10

    *donation capped -- actual "LIAR" count was 132

    For the newcomers who don't know what $KaChing is, at the beginning of July, I proposed donating $1
    to Quackwatch every time Jan called someone here a LIAR. Her nasty habit of shouting LIAR at
    everyone who disagrees with her was becoming annoying to me, and, since this is an unmoderated
    newsgroup where freedom of speech applies, the only way to change this behavior was to use behavior
    modification. There are no channels of positive reinforcement available, so punishment seemed the
    most effective approach. Jan has expressed her hatred of Dr. Barrett and his Quackwatch website
    repeatedly, thus my plan to apply a mild punishment for her behavior. The problem is that, unlike
    positive reinforcement that can be effective with a variable schedule, punishment must be
    consistently meted with every infraction. Thus, the one dollar sting. A few days later, I added a $5
    sting donation to Ratbags for every time Jan brought up the tragic death of a child to accuse Peter
    B. of something or other, though I've never understood just how Jan's warped brain connected him
    with that case and assigned the guilt.

    Anyway, as the figures above show, the program seems to be effective. Jan even got through the
    September Ritalin wars without maxing out the Quackwatch donation. If $KaChing continues to be
    effective, I may add a $1 "insomnia fine" for every time Jan does her childish "ZZZZzzzz" response.

    See you next month, and thank you Mark Thorson and any others who are participating. </quote>

    19. "The Importance of Mass Name Calling"
    ########################################

    Jan Drew displays a fine moral. Allways nice, allways polite, always helpfull. Unless... the truth
    shows up. Persons who show the real backgrounds of Jan Drew, oh, they are REAL BAD. Jan Drew uses
    foul language, and says that some of his critics are connected with Satan. Here is a collection by
    which Jan Drew shows his real face...:

    <quote> Path:eek:ofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-
    m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 40 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan)
    Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Date: 10 Nov 2003 06:03:05 GMT Organization: AOL
    http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: The Importance of Mass Name Calling Message-ID: <[email protected]
    m06.aol.com> Xref: news.freenet.de misc.health.alternative:325036

    Rich Shewmaker who has no integrity, He doesn't give a damn if all the debunkers lie.

    Richard H Jacobson, proven liar, badgerer, stalker and sad human excuse of a human being.

    Andrew Kingoff who hides behing the fake name of IIsa. Likes to deconstruct others, has a fetish for
    steaming bags of feces, and pounding of sand up one's ass.

    Peter Bowditch who isn't man of his words and a proven liar.

    David Wright, grump of the year whose intent is to make others angry.

    DC Sessions who acts like a spoiled brat.

    Ted Nidiffer, who hides behing the name NanaWeedkiller, lackey for Barrett.

    Mark Thorson who repeats himself several times a day. Known liar who has to make retractions,
    another lackey for Barrett.

    Mark MD whose hobby is to annoy.

    Mark Probert, all of the above.

    WB and Dickinson both trolls.

    Joel Eichen who needs his mercury level checked, acts like a chicken with it's head off.

    Aribert Deckers, no words to describe this loon.

    A sad sorry *dishonest* bunch.

    Who ALL have EGO problems, push drugs and overlook all needless deaths mistakes and FRAUD within
    organized medicine.

    That's a FACT, Jack. </quote>

    Now, keep in mind, that Jan Drew claims to have owned a child care center. Would you ever give a
    child to a person of such paranoid behavior...?

    20. Deadly fraud in the healthcare system
    #########################################

    Jan Drew, for his crime is abusing efforts of Shawn Korrami and other honest fighters against
    dental amalgam.

    Jan Drew is lying by mixing up true facts with snake-oil dealer lies. This is the way Jan Drew is
    disguising his real intention : to advertize quackery in large scale.

    Jan Drew is an unscrupulous liar and is misleading ill people into misery.

    Here is just one example of what can happen to one who believes "persons" like Jan Drew :

    <quote> Betroffene berichten "Leben" mit Amalgam-Vergiftung
    - und andere Dinge im Umgang mit Ärzten - 7
    6.1.2002 *
    (A20106)Allzuleicht verlassen sich Kranke auf Behauptungen Anderer. Manche bezahlen diese
    Gutgläubigkeit mit dem Leben. Gerade noch mit dem Leben davongekommen, aber schwerkrank ist
    der arme Mann, der mir erlaubt hat, seine Bitte um Hilfe zu veröffentlichen. Falls jemand
    etwas weiß, das ihm helfen kann: BITTE MELDEN SIE SICH! Ill people too often believe in what
    others say. Many pay for this with their life. Having survived but severly ill, a poor man
    sent me this email and allowed me to publish his request for help.

    Aribert Deckers

    **************************************************************************
    DMSA and the DMSA-Hg complex half-life, and the normal values.

    Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 Hi! I was looking for S. Emerson's old page - and found your mirror. If you
    know his present e-mail address please forward that message quoted below to him. I would also be
    grateful if you would reply to that letter as well. Thank you! (Name)

    ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Hi! I hope that you remeber my e-mail from October 1999. I
    am sorry for such a long silence, but the enormity of the disasters in my family in recent years is
    just incredible.

    I lost finaly my job due to the illness, and I got cerebral haemorhage on the 1st of June 2000 - for
    four weeks doctors were not sure if I survive, but I am still alive as you see.

    I got that cerebral haemorrage during taking of DMSA. Who knows maybe it was involved in it? I found
    on that page http://www.altcorp.com/hgtoxicity.htm an information that DMSA can cause
    thrombocystosis. I was taking DMSA produced by Fluka as a chemical reagent (>98% pure). Medical
    pills of DMSA were rather too expensive for me.

    I felt worse than usually when taking DMSA - is that normal reaction?

    I keep my urine samples (gathered when taking DMSA) frozen in photografic film plastic containers.

    I would like to measure Hg level in it, but they (a lab in Lodz, Poland) want to charge me for every
    container as for completely separated analysis, so I have to choose just a few samples (3 or maybe 5
    samples) for analysis to reduce my expenses. They would measure it by AAS cold vapours technique.

    I don't know what is metabolism and half-life of DMSA and DMSA-Hg complex in our organisms, so I am
    not sure which samples to choose for analysis. Maybe you could help me? I am attaching a word file
    with a table indicating when and how much DMSA I took, and when urine samples were taken. On the
    last page in that file is also a copy of my CAT scan.

    Do you know what values of Hg are considered normal and what high in urine *when taking DMSA*? I
    would be grateful if you would provide me with that data.

    I am now on 1 year of temporary pension due to the cerebral heamorrahage, though I have been already
    not able to work earlier due to Hg vapours poisoning in the lab with severe CFIDS/ME like symptoms.
    This year also my grandmother had a stroke (we don't even know for sure whether that was a bleeding
    stroke or not, because doctors here stint on doing CAT scans or MRI for elderly people), and she
    became left side paralysed. My mother is also not well, having very strong headaches. We both being
    ill have to take care alone about my paralysed grandmother - it is very exhausting, and often we
    also cannot sleep at night because of her (she often doesn't sleep all night long talking often
    without much sense to herself - that's another result of the stroke). Doctors here are not helpful
    at all, they would rather want us all to die, so that we would not bother them again. And what are
    the conditions and treatment in our hospitals is a subject for yet another long horror story.

    We just live in hell on Earth.

    We would like to move out from here to another country, but that's not easy without any help
    from outside.

    I'll better finish here.

    Hope to hear from you soon. Best wishes

    [Name) ------ End of forwarded message ------- * hier geht's weiter ! [ Das Amalgam-Zentrum ]
    Copyright © 2000 - 2002 Aribert Deckers and Copyright © 2000 - 2002 Antares Real-Estate Jegliche
    Weiterverwendung der Texte der Amalgam-Page ist verboten. Verlage dürfen sich wegen der
    Nachdruckrechte per Email an mich wenden. Aribert Deckers </quote>

    People like Jan Drew are responsible for the fate of victims like this ill man.

    Jan Drew is a damned shame for the human race.

    11. Jan Drew and the Attack on the WTC,
    #######################################
    Jan Drew's Antisemitism
    #######################################

    In a posting, dated november, 12th. 2003, Mr. Rich shows Jan Drew's antisemitism :

    <quote> From: Rich<,@.> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject: Jan Drew, lowest of lows (Was
    Re: A message to a sick son of a bitch.!) Message-ID: <[email protected]>
    References: <[email protected]>
    <[email protected]> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 04:28:50 GMT

    On 12 Nov 2003 03:57:07 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    >Sadly, his enablers will be right along.
    >
    >It matters not to them how low one is, they defend each others, as in:

    Jan is one to talk about how low one can go defend her enablers. The following is an antisemitic
    rant made by one of Jan's enablers. Read the post and then read Jan's comment following it if you
    want to read the lowest of lows:

    Debbee1023 says:
    >>I am beginning to think there are dentists who are among those who are paid to talk against the
    >>anti-amalgam campaign, and I am beginning to wonder which ethnic group of people owns those dental
    >>supply businesses? I understand there is one large ethnic group that pushes their "people" into
    >>the medical field, and those that cannot stand the sight of blood end up as lobbyists, teachers,
    >>politicians, entertainers, etc., and that anyone that goes against "their thinking" is ridiculed.
    >>The problem being, I am beginning to think all of thismuch to do about nothing in the field of
    >>alternative medicine is all true about this particular heritage, and maybe a certain European
    >>leader was right long
    >time ago.
    >
    >>The "almighty" dollar is the most important material object in this culture's life. Not all of the
    >>people connected, are of that nature, but I'm beginning to understand why the attacks on the U.S.
    >>were planned on the cities that were chosen. It's not just alternative medicine that has been
    >>attempted to be hijacked...it all because of pure GREED, that has some of these people so
    >>possessed, that they feel they are OWED for something that happened years AGO. Instead of "getting
    >>over it", like most people do, that have been abused, they keep abusing others that are not of
    >>that culture, in an attempt to "even the score."
    >

    Jan the despicable antisemite agrees:

    >Yes, it does appear that way, along with the ole EGO thingie.
    >
    >Jan

    So there you have it. Jan Drew agrees with Hitler's plan to exterminate millions of Jews simply
    because of their religion. And Jan Drew calls herself a Christian. Lord have mercy.

    What would Jesus (a jew) have to say about Jan Drew endorsing someone who said that Hitler was right
    about the Jews. Jan may find out on judgment day.

    Aloha,

    Rich
    >

    ------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance. </quote>

    12. The "Jew joy" case
    #######################

    Trying to find the original posting by Jan Drew with his attacks, calling someone "jew boy", I found
    2 postings missing in my "Agent" archive file. Seems as if somebody cancelled them before I could
    download them with "Agent" in those days. I do not know, who is responsible for these postings being
    cancelled, but I think, that pieces of proof like these should be made public.

    So, I herewith to public show these 2 pieces of proof, as can be found with Google :

    <quote> Lines: 30 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative Date: 02 May 2002 19:59:32 GMT References: <[email protected]
    fs.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes Message-ID: <[email protected]
    cp.aol.com>

    >Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email protected] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/2/02 11:07 AM Pacific
    >Daylight Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >>If you have Fibromyalgia, then you have one of these Syndromes too!
    >>
    >>
    >>LAZY DOCTOR SYNDROME
    >>
    ><Snip>
    >
    >Perhaps, Bubba, folks who believe they have one of these "syndromes" should see an alternative
    >medical practitioner. Those so afflicted should consider consulting their yellow pages for an
    >Acupuncturist near them.

    Please stay clear of

    Southern Acupuncture Inc.

    I.L.S.A.

    1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A

    Wilmington, NC

    910-799-5777

    Jan </quote>

    <quote> Lines: 54 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative Date: 04 May 2002 04:35:36 GMT References: <[email protected]
    co.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes Message-ID: <[email protected]
    fe.aol.com>

    >Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email protected] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/3/02 8:17 PM Pacific
    >Daylight Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >>>Subject: Re: Doctor Syndromes From: [email protected] (Ilsa Nein) Date: 5/2/02 11:07 AM Pacific
    >>>Daylight Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >>>
    >>>>If you have Fibromyalgia, then you have one of these Syndromes too!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>LAZY DOCTOR SYNDROME
    >>>>
    >>><Snip>
    >>>
    >>>Perhaps, Bubba, folks who believe they have one of these "syndromes" should see an alternative
    >>>medical practitioner. Those so afflicted should consider consulting their yellow pages for an
    >>>Acupuncturist near them.
    >>
    >>Please stay clear of
    >>
    >>Southern Acupuncture Inc.
    >>
    >> I.L.S.A.
    >>
    >>1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A
    >>
    >>Wilmington, NC
    >>
    >>910-799-5777
    >>
    >>Jan
    >>
    >
    >Jan, quit shilling, it is against the MHA 10 Commandments.

    Little do you know anything about the *10 Commandments* Jew Boy.

    Please stay clear of

    Southern Acupuncture Inc.

    I.L.S.B.

    1403 Audubon Blvd. #1A

    Wilmington, NC

    910-799-5777 </quote>

    13. Jan Drew Lied About Having Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams
    ##############################################################

    Are Jan Drew's claims true ? Here is a differing opinion.

    (I mounted the quotes with the original FULL texts included. Please note, that, by mounting the
    texts, the quotation marks differ.)

    <quote> From: Rich<,@.> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Subject: Jan Drew Lied About Having
    Mercury Poisoning from Amalgams Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Sat,
    15 Nov 2003 18:43:19 GMT

    As regular readers of this newsgroup know, there is a poster Jan Drew who obsessively posts about
    how she nearly died of mercury poisoning secondary to amalgams. She claims that the removal of
    several amalgams saved her life.

    But Jan lied several times regarding her amalgam history in order to deceive others that she really
    had mercury poisoning when what she actually had was a deterioration in her preexisting illness
    (peripheral neuropathy) secondary to psychologic factors (worrying obsessively about having mercury
    poisoning due to reading about it in Hulda Clark book). She also had a dramatic improvement due to
    psychologic factors (relief that the removal of amalgams eliminated the mercury poisoning).

    Now Jan drew ADMITTED in HER OWN WORDS that the reason she went from thinking that she was dying of
    mercury poisoning one day and feeling better than she had the next day within hours of having some
    amalgams removed was completely due to relief. Now I will allow Jan Drew to tell you her in own
    words that her improvement was due to relief:

    Here are her exact words posted on June 18th, 1999 to usenet

    [QUOTE, mounted]
    >>I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a dentist
    >>(alternative) who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They can cause all manner of
    >>things. He will remove them and put in composities. I have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The
    >>others will come out in a few weeks, along with the one root canal, which will be extracted.
    >
    >>If an individual has read on this subject and is knowledgable, he will take care of you.
    >
    >>He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it like it is. He tells how the ADA has covered up this
    >>problem.
    >
    >>So, it is just a matter of finding the right dentist. He has people flying in from all over to get
    >>the work done.
    >
    >>I believe the mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt better today that I have in the last
    >>2 years, and am looking forward to getting the rest of the mercury out and the root canal pulled.
    >
    >>Jan

    <quote, full original> http://www.google.de/groups?selm=19990618194417.11038.00000497%40ng-
    fm1.aol.com&output=gplain

    From: [email protected] (JDrew63929) Subject: Re: Any comments on this explanation for allergy?
    (yes, of course :) Date: 1999/06/18 Message-ID: <[email protected]>#1/1
    References: <[email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups:
    alt.health.dental-amalgam X-Admin: [email protected]

    >Hi Zugumba,
    >
    >You wrote:
    >>Actually, Joel is perfectly correct as far as things go in the US.
    >
    >You think he never sent a patient with a cold home to avoid catching it?
    >
    >>dentist can lose his license for treating a systemic illness
    >
    >What is really a systemic illness. Is that a disease that hits all systems in the body or ' just '
    >a local condition with systemic (general) symptoms? Or even one, or a few, distant symptoms? What
    >is it really?
    >
    >In most cases it is the latter. And as dentists, even in the States, we cannot avoid affecting the
    >body conditons when treating mouth conditions. The mouth IS a part of the body. And in many cases
    >also the body's mirror.
    >
    >>If Joel determined that a patient was suffering from a migraine and not a dental abscess, his job
    >>stops there. He then is obligated to refer the patient to a neurologist.
    >
    >Okay, Let's say it is rather diffuse oro-facial pain. What would you do?
    >
    >>Similarly, removing amalgam restorations to treat a systemic illness (like multiple sclerosis) is
    >>considering treating an illness out of the scope of dental practice.
    >
    >What you really are talking about is indications. Id est; for what purpose the dental treatment is
    >performed. Sofar teeth are treated for the reason of teeth, yes. One day (and it is emerging)
    >dentists will learn that what they do to one part of the body may effect other parts. I am not
    >saying that dental amalgam is the sole cause of MS. There are far closer relations between
    >classical systemic diseases and dental treatment, for exaple; an aggrevated heart condition due to
    >dental treatment, increased arterio- sclerotic plaque formation, etc (not to mention all the
    >iatrogenous TMJ:s)
    >
    >>After a certain point the patient has to be turned over to the correct medical practitioners to
    >>finish the job or to follow-up.
    >
    >That's a pretty obvious statement. Anyone would agree with that. And it doesn't disprove
    >what I wrote.
    >
    >>True, the line can be fuzzy, but most of the time it is pretty clear what range of ailments a
    >>dentist in the US can treat
    >
    >Submandibular lymphatic adenitis? May a dentist treat that - or not? In US?
    >
    >Hans

    I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a dentist (alternative)
    who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They can cause all manner of things. He will
    remove them and put in composities. I have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The others will come out in
    a few weeks, along with the one root canal, which will be extracted.

    If an individual has read on this subject and is knowledgable, he will take care of you.

    He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it like it is. He tells how the ADA has covered up
    this problem.

    So, it is just a matter of finding the right dentist. He has people flying in from all over to get
    the work done.

    I believe the mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt better today that I have in the last 2
    years, and am looking forward to getting the rest of the mercury out and the root canal pulled.

    Jan </quote> [/QUOTE]

    And now the admission that this improvement was due to relief:

    Here are her exact words:

    [QUOTE, mounted]
    >Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was very true. I had
    >been very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After much reading and research I was
    >convinced it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I
    >knew I had to do something. It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful.

    >Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't have to sit in the
    >dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A
    >big big burden was lifted. That makes one FEEL BETTER.
    >
    >What's so hard to understand?

    <quote, full original> http://www.google.de/groups?selm=20001229232415.00774.00003862%40ng-
    mm1.aol.com&output=gplain

    Lines: 35 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (JDrew63929) Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative Date: 30 Dec 2000 04:24:15 GMT References:
    <[email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: This
    skeptic's view of alt/comp Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    >From: Rich {.} Date: 12/29/00 10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
    ><[email protected]>
    >

    Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was very true. I had been
    very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After much reading and research I was convinced
    it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I knew I had
    to do something. It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful.

    Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't have to sit in the
    dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A
    big big burden was lifted. That makes one FEEL BETTER.

    What's so hard to understand?

    I also reported I had only begun, now on to chelating the mercury from my body. With mercury
    poisoning, it comes and goes, I had some pretty bad spells. I'm still chelating Rich and will be for
    some time. I slowly am regaining my health and my PN is much better. I don't have the painful
    periods that I once had, and yes it was after I started taking medication.

    You added a few words to what I said which *implied* that I was physicially free from
    pain..........as in BANG I'm home free. That is NOT what I meant.............and you know it.

    Now do you better understand? I hope so because I feel no need to explain it AGAIN. Please respect
    that I didn't have to explain AGAIN this time.

    Jan </quote> [/QUOTE]

    All the work was done??? A lie. The work was not completed until weeks later. Jan Drew even posted
    that her dental work was not done until July 11, 1999.

    And now for more lies. Jan Drew told two egregious lies that were told solely to deceive people into
    thinking that she really had mercury poisoning.

    The first is on June 26 ,1999 just a week after she had eight amalgams removed. She claimed that ALL
    her feet pain went away and she was able to go out line dancing because she was no longer getting a
    daily dose of mercury. This is a complete lie and Jan knew it. On June 26, 1999 Jan still had more
    amalgams to be removed and they would not be removed until July 11, 1999 by Jan's own admission. You
    see Jan has difficulty keeping her lies straight.

    But let us have Jan Drew tell us in her own words:

    [QUOTE, mounted]
    >On 26 Jun 1999, JDrew63929 wrote:

    >> >AF says *** More childish nonsense from poor, sick old Jan.
    >>
    >>
    >> Well, Jan is doing fine, even went line dancing tonight! Guess that tells you something about
    >> my feet..
    >> >
    >
    >
    >
    >This simply proves that your "neuralgia" is significantly the product of a somatization disorder.
    >Mercury accumulates in the body, and there is no way having your fillings removed a week or two
    >back could have instantly eliminated all mercury toxicity effects. It would take months or even
    >years for the benefits to occur, if the problem really was mercury toxicity. So if pulling your
    >fillings instantly cured your feet, we have a very solid case here that your "neuralgia" was
    >psychosomatic.

    >>You are way off base here. I didn't say I was instantly cured. The detoxing that I have done is a
    >>major factor in my recovery. Yes, I will continue to do it for quite some time to remove the
    >>mercury from my body. I am feeling much better, because I am not receiving a new dose of mercury
    >>each day. The elimination of 8 mercury amalgams has made a difference. Nothing psychosomatic
    >>about it.

    <quote, full original> http://www.google.de/groups?selm=19990626122727.19238.00001294%40ng-
    fl1.aol.com&output=gplain

    From: [email protected] (JDrew63929) Subject: Re: Chronic constipation Date: 1999/06/26 Message-ID:
    <[email protected]>#1/1 References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9906261113290.23596-
    [email protected]> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Newsgroups:
    misc.health.alternative X-Admin: [email protected]

    >On 26 Jun 1999, JDrew63929 wrote:
    >> >
    >> >*** More childish nonsense from poor, sick old Jan.
    >>
    >>
    >> Well, Jan is doing fine, even went line dancing tonight! Guess that tells
    you
    >> something about my feet..
    >> >
    >
    >
    >
    >This simply proves that your "neuralgia" is significantly the product of a somatization disorder.
    >Mercury accumulates in the body, and there is no way having your fillings removed a week or two
    >back could have instantly eliminated all mercury toxicity effects. It would take months or even
    >years for the benefits to occur, if the problem really was mercury toxicity. So if pulling your
    >fillings instantly cured your feet, we have a very solid case here that your "neuralgia" was
    >psychosomatic.

    You are way off base here. I didn't say I was instantly cured. The detoxing that I have done is a
    major factor in my recovery. Yes, I will continue to do it for quite some time to remove the mercury
    from my body. I am feeling much better, because I am not receiving a new dose of mercury each day.
    The elimination of 8 mercury amalgams has made a difference. Nothing psychosomatic about it.

    >As a country musician, somehow I knew you were a line dancer. And that, combined with your recent
    >attempt to smear Texas and Texans, explains a lot.
    >
    >
    >AF

    It does? My recent attemp to smear Texans? Now, please tell me, do you believe that people who like
    line dancing are stupid? Please explain your remark. You are a country musician, you can't see
    people truly enjoying themselves while line dancing? It was the first time I have been in a long,
    long time. I do not even know how, I have watched, but my feet stopped me from learning. I was so
    thankful to be back and tried a few lessons, THANK GOD, my feet didn't hurt! I felt alive again.
    What a blessing!

    Just as I thought that I knew you, you have really thrown me here. Please explain.

    Jan [/QUOTE]

    Nothing psychosomatic about it?!!?!?!?!?!?!? It was completely psychosomatic. Jan Drew's mercury
    level at the time she made this statement was the highest in her life since she had eight amalgams
    removed over a two day period only a week before.

    The second lie is when she posted to sci.med.dentisty that the reason she knows that it was the
    mercury in her mouth that caused her health problems was because she did not *begin* to regain her
    health until *after* the mercury level dropped. Not only is this a complete lie and Jan knows it but
    the complete opposite is true.

    Jan Drew began to regain her health when her mercury level was the highest in her entire life. That
    is right. When Jan Drew reported dramatic improvement in her health (ie better than she felt in two
    years, and being able to line dance due to all the pain gone) her mercury level had not dropped and
    was likely the highest in her life because this improvement occurred from hours to a week after her
    amalgams were removed.

    The reason that alternative dentists recommend slow removal of amalgams (some as posted by Jan Drew
    suggest removing no more than one amalgam every three months) is because the removal of the amalgams
    results in vaporization of mercury which even with perfect protocol will result in absorption into
    the body of large amounts of mercury.

    So on June 18 and 19, 1999 Jan had eight amalgams removed. On June 19, 1999 Jan said she felt better
    than she had in two years.

    On June 26, 1999 Jan said that she was able to go out line dancing because all her foot pain was
    gone. Of course the pain only was gone for a short time because it was likely a placebo effect
    due to her RELIEF that the mercury was coming out of her mouth. Just like she felt better than
    she did in two years due to relief (by her OWN admission) she was able to go out line dancing a
    week later when the absorption of mercury into her tissues from blood likely resulted in the
    highest level in her life.

    But Jan said that she knows it was the metal in her mouth because she did not BEGIN to regain her
    health until AFTER her mercury level dropped. A complete lie and the pathologic liar Jan Drew knows
    it. This is why she kill filed me. This is why she lies about me being a liar and a stalker. Jan
    Drew knows that I exposed her lies and she refuses to admit it. She is a despicable human being
    whose sole purpose in life is to shill for alternative dentists and to perpetuate the lie that she
    had mercury poisoning from amalgams. She did not and the proof is in her own words.

    Jan Drew will not respond to any of the points in this post. Instead she will pretend she is not
    reading them and then personally attack me in order to discredit me. Just watch.

    That's a wrap.

    Aloha,

    Rich

    ------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance. </quote>

    14. The foul language of Jan Drew
    #################################

    On 06 Nov 2003 23:45:08 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    <quote> X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry Date: 06
    Nov 2003 23:45:08 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: The Obsessed Nut Case Liar
    Aribert Deckers Message-ID: <[email protected]> Xref: news.freenet.de
    sci.med.dentistry:176001

    >Subject: Re: [FAQ about Jan Drew's advertizing for quackery] 20031106 From: [email protected]
    >(ChuckMSRD) Date: 11/6/2003 8:58 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]
    >m10.aol.com>
    >
    >>2. Nicknames and persons involved in the Jan Drew scam
    >
    >>"ChuckMSRD" [email protected]
    >
    >Wrong, and Aribert is an obsessed nut job.
    >
    >Chuck

    True. There is no Jan Drew scam. There is no advertising from me.

    Neither do I know Chuck other than by his posts here.

    Jan </quote>

    On 04 Nov 2003 02:34:29 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    > The websites I post are written by DDS's MD's Ph.D researchers, people with actual experience,
    > and law makers.

    Jan Drew admits to post material into the net.
    **********************************************

    This way Jan Drew is advertizing. Jan Drew just does not call it advertizing. Jan Drew's denial does
    not make the advertizing no advertizing. Jan Drew's denial shows his pathologic character.

    Jan Drew is a naturopath mafia advertizing agency and as such his words are rhetoric warfare.

    Because that is the game --- as Jan Drew persuades people to go to charlatans and quacks.

    15. Jan Drew's rhetorical warfare
    #################################

    As you have seen above, Jan Drew DOES advertize by posting material which is CONTRA scientific
    medicine and PRO naturopath mafia stuff. In the following posting by Nana Weedkiller you see the
    relevant points clearly :

    <quote> From: "Nana Weedkiller" <[email protected]> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
    References: <[email protected]>
    <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds Message-
    ID: <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:53:08 GMT

    "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > >>
    > >> That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both to work together.
    > >
    > >You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning *away* from
    > >conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in
    place
    > >of* it.
    >
    > Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.

    I thought I might help you out a little to remind you of what you've stated. No need to thank me.

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "...when one has exhausted the conventional route and found no answers, they turn to
    alternative medicine. Many have found the answer been treated and are regaining their health.
    It's called RESULTS."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "Or one can turn to alternative medicine and find an answer,,,,,,,,,,,,and that is WHY one half of
    people are turning to alternative medicine."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "ONE of the MAIN reasons people turn to alternative medicine, is because conv. medicine HAS NO
    ANSWERS,,,,,,,,,,,,"

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "Defects of conventional medicine are just one more reason to turn to alternative medicine, and stay
    OUT of hospitals."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "Furthmore, have you any clue as to WHY people are turning to alternative??

    BECASE THEY ARE DISSATIFIED WITH CONVENTIONAL MEDIC!NE!!!"

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "When conv. has no answers, it's time to turn to alternative. Many are finding answers and treatment
    that is working."

    Message-ID: <20010108163856[email protected]>

    "And many times they get NO diagnoses because it isn't in the recipe book. Many people turn to
    alternative because conv. has no answers."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "Their *real* doctor? The reason most people are turning to AM is because their conv. doctor has NO
    answers, because REAL conditions are being denied."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "In many cases conv. medicine has no answers, that's because many *real* diseases are denied.

    People tuurn to alternative to get to the *root* of the problem."

    Message-ID: <[email protected]>

    "You will find that most people are turning to alternative because conventional medicine has no
    answers." </quote>

    The naturopath mafiosi always invite the scientific medicine to cooperate with them. But the
    naturopath mafia seeds hatred against scientific medicine whereever possible.

    There will NEVER be any kind of cooperation, as it is the naturopath mafia which wants to rule the
    world ALONE, and may it cost the life of all patients.

    16. Children die because of criminals like Jan Drew
    ###################################################

    On 11 Oct 2003 05:35:32 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:
    >This is truly evil.
    >
    >Jan

    This is a report from WHO in 1997 :

    http://www.who.int/child-adolescent-health/New_Publications/IMCI/fs_180.htm <quote> "Measles

    The problem: Despite the major impact made on this disease by successful immunization programmes,
    measles infects over 40 million children and kills over 800,000 under-fives each year. That
    translates to 2,000 deaths of young children every day from measles, often in association with
    diarrhoea and pneumonia. IMCI solution: Young children with measles often develop acute respiratory
    infections, diarrhoea and malnutrition, and children who survive measles are more vulnerable to
    other dangerous infections for several months afterwards. Trained health workers learn to recognize
    the complications of measles that they can treat and those that need rapid referral for more
    specialized treatment." </quote>

    What is more evil than to kill children ?

    Children die. They die because they have not been vaccinated. They die because of infections which
    they could have survived if they had been vaccinated.

    And Jan Drew persuades people NOT to have their children vaccinated...

    Jan Drew denies that he is against vaccination, but here is a piece of proof (one of many to
    be found) :

    [long, but with reason not abridged]

    <quote> From: "Tony Bad" <[email protected]> Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry References:
    <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Mercury in the mouth Lines: 38 X-
    Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-
    MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID:
    <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:20:37 -0400 NNTP-Posting-
    Host: 24.186.4.238 X-Trace: news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net 1032492423 24.186.4.238 (Thu, 19 Sep 2002
    23:27:03 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:27:03 EDT Organization: Optimum Online

    You forgot the "once upon
     
  9. Carabelli

    Carabelli Guest

    "Nana Weedkiller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Jan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > > >>
    > > >> That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for
    both
    > > >> to work together.
    > > >
    > > >You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are
    turning
    > > >*away* from conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in
    > place
    > > >of* it.
    > >
    > > Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.
    >
    > I thought I might help you out a little to remind you of what you've stated. No need to thank me.

    Thanks anyway. Be prepared to be ignored, or possibly read a rebuttal using the semantics she
    learned in third grade. Nevermind, you already knew that.

    carabelli
     
  10. Happy Oyster

    Happy Oyster Guest

    On 16 Dec 2003 02:33:25 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    >I use both conventional and alternative. I am looking forward to the day they can work together.

    Very funny, indeed. The naturopath mafiosi always invite the scientific medicine to cooperate with
    them. But the naturopath mafia seeds hatred against scientific medicine whereever possible.

    There will NEVER be any kind of cooperation, as it is the naturopath mafia which wants to rule the
    world ALONE, and may it cost the life of all patients.

    Regards,

    Aribert Deckers
    --
    World Conference "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management"

    http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_p0.htm
     
  11. Happy Oyster

    Happy Oyster Guest

    On 16 Dec 2003 16:16:58 GMT, [email protected] (Jan) wrote:

    >>Subject: Re: Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds From: [email protected]
    >>Date: 12/15/2003 9:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
    >
    >
    >http://tinyurl.com/z8r9
    >
    >Complementary medicine growing by leaps and bounds : PC-SPES, other supplements

    this now is the sixth case.

    Which proves, again, that Jan Drew is a liar. Jan Drew claimed to have me killfiled :

    <quote> Lines: 24 X-Admin: [email protected] From: [email protected] (Jan) Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
    Date: 21 Oct 2003 22:47:53 GMT References: <1g377q3.sqoinq2dp4igN%[email protected]> Organization:
    AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: JianDrew is *not* a Dentist Message-ID: <[email protected]
    m13.aol.com>

    >From: [email protected] (madiba) Date: 10/21/2003 1:14 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    ><1g377q3.sqoinq2dp4igN%[email protected]>
    >
    >Happy Oyster

    ><[email protected]> wrote:

    <snip>

    >Again, no wonder, that the sound thinking MDs and dentists were
    >> fed up, this the more because the naturopath mafiosi use foul language - as you can see with
    >> Jan Drew and the other advertizing agencies.

    I have him killfiled, but this is ANOTHER lie, I do not use foul language.

    There is no such thing as naturopath mafiosi

    I have not told parents to not vacination their children.

    Everything this man says about me is a lie.

    Jan </quote>

    Regards,

    Aribert Deckers

    --
    World Conference "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management"

    http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_p0.htm
     
Loading...