A
Alan Holmes
Guest
"TripleS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Alan Holmes wrote:
>> "TripleS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Brimstone wrote:
>>>> TripleS wrote:
>>>>> Alan Holmes wrote:
>>>>>> "TripleS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Brimstone wrote:
>>>>>>>> "TripleS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>>> Brimstone wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> TripleS wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Conor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, TripleS says...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pardon my ignorance, but what is meant by Primary position?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it mean cycling down the middle of a lane in order
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent (or at least discourage) a driver from overtaking you?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pretty much. It's supposed to be slightly to the right as I
>>>>>>>>>>>> recall on a motorbike.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've noticed motorcyclists often position themselves just to
>>>>>>>>>>> the left of the centre-line as standard procedure on single
>>>>>>>>>>> carriageway roads, even when it appears to offer no advantage
>>>>>>>>>>> to them. This can be a nuisance if you're looking to overtake
>>>>>>>>>>> them* and it can give the impression that they're trying to be
>>>>>>>>>>> obstructive, though they may not be.
>>>>>>>>>>> * Yes OK, I do appreciate that normally it's the bikers who are
>>>>>>>>>>> doing the overtaking!
>>>>>>>>>> If you you look at the position of the driver, rather than the
>>>>>>>>>> vehicle, they should be occupying the same relative position on
>>>>>>>>>> the road as a car or van driver.
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure that I see the reasoning there. Whether we're
>>>>>>>>> driving cars or riding motorbikes I think keeping tucked in to
>>>>>>>>> the left as far as reasonably possible is the thing to do, though
>>>>>>>>> of course we may decide to depart from this from time to time for
>>>>>>>>> improving vision etc. There is also the point that none of us
>>>>>>>>> should be expected to
>>>>>>>>> drive/ride so close to the edge that we fall foul of all the
>>>>>>>>> rough stuff and debris that tends to accumulate there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having said all that, I still feel the bikers take up more space
>>>>>>>>> near the centre of the road than seems appropriate.
>>>>>>>> Simple, if there's not enough space to overtake a car then there's
>>>>>>>> not enough to pass a bike. The biker adopting the commanding
>>>>>>>> position makes the car driver wanting to pass think about it
>>>>>>>> rather than trying to squeeze past and force the bike into the
>>>>>>>> gutter or worse.
>>>>>>> I'm not wanting to squeeze past or force them into the gutter or
>>>>>>> anything like that, but it does make it that bit more difficult to
>>>>>>> get a clear view past them when they are so far out into the road.
>>>>>> Just like trying to see round a car!
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not disagreeing about that.
>>>>>
>>>>> All I'm saying is that IMHO the bikers often sit too far out into the
>>>>> road, gaining no particular benefit for themselves, but what they are
>>>>> doing is making vision worse for a following driver looking to
>>>>> overtake.
>>>> They are gaining a considerable benefit for themselves. They're giving
>>>> themselves space for when some inconsiderate car driver tries to
>>>> overtake with insufficient clearance.
>>>>
>>> No they are not.
>>
>> All together now, Oh yes they are!
>
> One, perhaps all on his own: "No they are not!"
>
>> By occupying a space close to the centre-line of the
>>> road they obtain no general advantage for themselves, unless they are
>>> seeking to enhance their vision - which does not apply on a long
>>> straight road free from junctions or suchlike hazards - but still they
>>> do it.
>>
>> It is quite obvious you have never been on a bicycle, on todays roads.
>
> Not true, Alan - but in any case you seem to be ignoring the fact that I'm
> mainly talking about motorcyclists.
Well you may have missread the header, but the post started out as a post
about bicycles. without motors, propelled by pedals and feet.
Alan
>
> Best wishes all,
> Dave.
news:[email protected]...
> Alan Holmes wrote:
>> "TripleS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Brimstone wrote:
>>>> TripleS wrote:
>>>>> Alan Holmes wrote:
>>>>>> "TripleS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Brimstone wrote:
>>>>>>>> "TripleS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>>>> Brimstone wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> TripleS wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Conor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, TripleS says...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pardon my ignorance, but what is meant by Primary position?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it mean cycling down the middle of a lane in order
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent (or at least discourage) a driver from overtaking you?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pretty much. It's supposed to be slightly to the right as I
>>>>>>>>>>>> recall on a motorbike.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've noticed motorcyclists often position themselves just to
>>>>>>>>>>> the left of the centre-line as standard procedure on single
>>>>>>>>>>> carriageway roads, even when it appears to offer no advantage
>>>>>>>>>>> to them. This can be a nuisance if you're looking to overtake
>>>>>>>>>>> them* and it can give the impression that they're trying to be
>>>>>>>>>>> obstructive, though they may not be.
>>>>>>>>>>> * Yes OK, I do appreciate that normally it's the bikers who are
>>>>>>>>>>> doing the overtaking!
>>>>>>>>>> If you you look at the position of the driver, rather than the
>>>>>>>>>> vehicle, they should be occupying the same relative position on
>>>>>>>>>> the road as a car or van driver.
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure that I see the reasoning there. Whether we're
>>>>>>>>> driving cars or riding motorbikes I think keeping tucked in to
>>>>>>>>> the left as far as reasonably possible is the thing to do, though
>>>>>>>>> of course we may decide to depart from this from time to time for
>>>>>>>>> improving vision etc. There is also the point that none of us
>>>>>>>>> should be expected to
>>>>>>>>> drive/ride so close to the edge that we fall foul of all the
>>>>>>>>> rough stuff and debris that tends to accumulate there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having said all that, I still feel the bikers take up more space
>>>>>>>>> near the centre of the road than seems appropriate.
>>>>>>>> Simple, if there's not enough space to overtake a car then there's
>>>>>>>> not enough to pass a bike. The biker adopting the commanding
>>>>>>>> position makes the car driver wanting to pass think about it
>>>>>>>> rather than trying to squeeze past and force the bike into the
>>>>>>>> gutter or worse.
>>>>>>> I'm not wanting to squeeze past or force them into the gutter or
>>>>>>> anything like that, but it does make it that bit more difficult to
>>>>>>> get a clear view past them when they are so far out into the road.
>>>>>> Just like trying to see round a car!
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not disagreeing about that.
>>>>>
>>>>> All I'm saying is that IMHO the bikers often sit too far out into the
>>>>> road, gaining no particular benefit for themselves, but what they are
>>>>> doing is making vision worse for a following driver looking to
>>>>> overtake.
>>>> They are gaining a considerable benefit for themselves. They're giving
>>>> themselves space for when some inconsiderate car driver tries to
>>>> overtake with insufficient clearance.
>>>>
>>> No they are not.
>>
>> All together now, Oh yes they are!
>
> One, perhaps all on his own: "No they are not!"
>
>> By occupying a space close to the centre-line of the
>>> road they obtain no general advantage for themselves, unless they are
>>> seeking to enhance their vision - which does not apply on a long
>>> straight road free from junctions or suchlike hazards - but still they
>>> do it.
>>
>> It is quite obvious you have never been on a bicycle, on todays roads.
>
> Not true, Alan - but in any case you seem to be ignoring the fact that I'm
> mainly talking about motorcyclists.
Well you may have missread the header, but the post started out as a post
about bicycles. without motors, propelled by pedals and feet.
Alan
>
> Best wishes all,
> Dave.