Re: Death in Greenwich Park - verdict

[Tom Crispin]

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
[email protected] (Terry) wrote:

>> Actually I was very explicitly was talking about boycotting him.
>
>Actually, you very explicitly said. "However I for one will make sure I
>do not eat in these restaurants until I am sure they are unconnected
>with Mr Voong."

Do you think that Nick should not be allowed to make that choice while
he has suspicions, that his choice is wrong, or that he is wrong to
have suspicions?

Personally, it would be wrong of me to announce a boycott as neither
of those restaurants are ones I have patronised - though I have
frequently enjoyed the cuisine of other Greenwich Restaurants. Indeed,
just today I enjoyed lunch in one of Greenwhich's restaurants.

 

[Nick]

Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
> [email protected] (Terry) wrote:
>
>>> Actually I was very explicitly was talking about boycotting him.
>> Actually, you very explicitly said. "However I for one will make sure I
>> do not eat in these restaurants until I am sure they are unconnected
>> with Mr Voong."
>
> Do you think that Nick should not be allowed to make that choice while
> he has suspicions, that his choice is wrong, or that he is wrong to
> have suspicions?
>
> Personally, it would be wrong of me to announce a boycott as neither
> of those restaurants are ones I have patronised

I don't think I have either, I might possibly have had lunch in one of
them. My statement being a bit pompously ineffectual was about the only
thing Mr Nugent picked up on correctly ;o)

I'm a bit old for that part of Greenwich in the evening.

> though I have
> frequently enjoyed the cuisine of other Greenwich Restaurants. Indeed,
> just today I enjoyed lunch in one of Greenwhich's restaurants.

I haven't actually been to a restaurant for a couple of months and that
was in Blackheath not Greenwich. I do like Thai/Vietnamese food though.

 

[Terry]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected]e (Tom Crispin) wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
> [email protected] (Terry) wrote:
>
> >> Actually I was very explicitly was talking about boycotting him.
> >
> >Actually, you very explicitly said. "However I for one will make
> sure I >do not eat in these restaurants until I am sure they are
> unconnected >with Mr Voong."
>
> Do you think that Nick should not be allowed to make that choice while
> he has suspicions, that his choice is wrong, or that he is wrong to
> have suspicions?

No, I think you should have waited until you had facts to impart.

> Personally, it would be wrong of me to announce a boycott as neither
> of those restaurants are ones I have patronised - though I have
> frequently enjoyed the cuisine of other Greenwich Restaurants. Indeed,
> just today I enjoyed lunch in one of Greenwhich's restaurants.
>

 

[Tom Crispin]

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:46 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
[email protected] (Terry) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] (Tom Crispin) wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
>> [email protected] (Terry) wrote:
>>
>> >> Actually I was very explicitly was talking about boycotting him.
>> >
>> >Actually, you very explicitly said. "However I for one will make
>> sure I >do not eat in these restaurants until I am sure they are
>> unconnected >with Mr Voong."
>>
>> Do you think that Nick should not be allowed to make that choice while
>> he has suspicions, that his choice is wrong, or that he is wrong to
>> have suspicions?
>
>No, I think you should have waited until you had facts to impart.

I did impart facts.

It is a proven fact that Mr Voong killed the cyclist, Mr Woods, by
dangerous driving.

It is a fact that rumours at the time were that the driver who killed
Mr Woods was in a hurry to open a restaurant.

It is a fact that there are two Vietnamese restaurants in Greenwich
town centre.

I also pointed out that the connection between the rumours and the
restaurants amounted to circumstantial evidence.

The inference that Choong Doung Voong is of Vietnamese origin was
deliberate. I would be extremely surprised if he is anything other
than Vietnamese or 1st or 2nd generation British of Vietnamese origin.

If his name was Claus Dieter Vilhelm I would conclude that he was
German and posted details of any German restaurants in Greenwich.

 

[JNugent]

Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:46 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
> [email protected] (Terry) wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected]e (Tom Crispin) wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
>>> [email protected] (Terry) wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Actually I was very explicitly was talking about boycotting him.
>>>> Actually, you very explicitly said. "However I for one will make
>>> sure I >do not eat in these restaurants until I am sure they are
>>> unconnected >with Mr Voong."
>>>
>>> Do you think that Nick should not be allowed to make that choice while
>>> he has suspicions, that his choice is wrong, or that he is wrong to
>>> have suspicions?
>> No, I think you should have waited until you had facts to impart.
>
> I did impart facts.
>
> It is a proven fact that Mr Voong killed the cyclist, Mr Woods, by
> dangerous driving.
>
> It is a fact that rumours at the time were that the driver who killed
> Mr Woods was in a hurry to open a restaurant.
>
> It is a fact that there are two Vietnamese restaurants in Greenwich
> town centre.
>
> I also pointed out that the connection between the rumours and the
> restaurants amounted to circumstantial evidence.
>
> The inference that Choong Doung Voong is of Vietnamese origin was
> deliberate. I would be extremely surprised if he is anything other
> than Vietnamese or 1st or 2nd generation British of Vietnamese origin.
>
> If his name was Claus Dieter Vilhelm I would conclude that he was
> German and posted details of any German restaurants in Greenwich.

Substitute "Jewish" for "Vietnamese" and then honestly say whether you
are still comfortable to have said what you have said (and, even more
importantly, with what "Nick" has said).

 

[Tom Crispin]

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:07:26 +0000, JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:

>> If his name was Claus Dieter Vilhelm I would conclude that he was
>> German and posted details of any German restaurants in Greenwich.
>
>Substitute "Jewish" for "Vietnamese" and then honestly say whether you
>are still comfortable to have said what you have said (and, even more
>importantly, with what "Nick" has said).

Apples and oranges.

Jewish - Christian - Muslim - Bhuddist - Parsi/Zoroast - Hindu
Vietnamese - English - German - Indian - Israeli - Korean

 

[JNugent]

Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:46 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
> [email protected] (Terry) wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected]e (Tom Crispin) wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
>>> [email protected] (Terry) wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Actually I was very explicitly was talking about boycotting him.
>>>> Actually, you very explicitly said. "However I for one will make
>>> sure I >do not eat in these restaurants until I am sure they are
>>> unconnected >with Mr Voong."
>>>
>>> Do you think that Nick should not be allowed to make that choice while
>>> he has suspicions, that his choice is wrong, or that he is wrong to
>>> have suspicions?
>> No, I think you should have waited until you had facts to impart.
>
> I did impart facts.
>
> It is a proven fact that Mr Voong killed the cyclist, Mr Woods, by
> dangerous driving.
>
> It is a fact that rumours at the time were that the driver who killed
> Mr Woods was in a hurry to open a restaurant.
>
> It is a fact that there are two Vietnamese restaurants in Greenwich
> town centre.
>
> I also pointed out that the connection between the rumours and the
> restaurants amounted to circumstantial evidence.
>
> The inference that Choong Doung Voong is of Vietnamese origin was
> deliberate. I would be extremely surprised if he is anything other
> than Vietnamese or 1st or 2nd generation British of Vietnamese origin.
>
> If his name was Claus Dieter Vilhelm I would conclude that he was
> German and posted details of any German restaurants in Greenwich.

And if his name had been Shlomo Greenberg?

 

[JNugent]

Tom Crispin wrote:

> JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:

>>> If his name was Claus Dieter Vilhelm I would conclude that he was
>>> German and posted details of any German restaurants in Greenwich.
>> Substitute "Jewish" for "Vietnamese" and then honestly say whether you
>> are still comfortable to have said what you have said (and, even more
>> importantly, with what "Nick" has said).

> Apples and oranges.

> Jewish - Christian - Muslim - Bhuddist - Parsi/Zoroast - Hindu
> Vietnamese - English - German - Indian - Israeli - Korean

It's difficult to know how to treat that response, because I certainly
don't accept it.

As I ask in another post nearby, what would you have done had the
driver's name been "Shlomo Greenberg"?

 

[Tom Crispin]

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:17:22 +0000, JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:

>Tom Crispin wrote:
>
>> JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> If his name was Claus Dieter Vilhelm I would conclude that he was
>>>> German and posted details of any German restaurants in Greenwich.
>>> Substitute "Jewish" for "Vietnamese" and then honestly say whether you
>>> are still comfortable to have said what you have said (and, even more
>>> importantly, with what "Nick" has said).
>
>> Apples and oranges.
>
>> Jewish - Christian - Muslim - Bhuddist - Parsi/Zoroast - Hindu
>> Vietnamese - English - German - Indian - Israeli - Korean
>
>It's difficult to know how to treat that response, because I certainly
>don't accept it.
>
>As I ask in another post nearby, what would you have done had the
>driver's name been "Shlomo Greenberg"?

If there were a couple of Kosher restaurants in Greenwich historic
centre, I would have named them, along with a note to the effect that
the rumour of the driver being a restaurateur and the driver's name
may not be related.

 

[JNugent]

Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:17:22 +0000, JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Tom Crispin wrote:
>>
>>> JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> If his name was Claus Dieter Vilhelm I would conclude that he was
>>>>> German and posted details of any German restaurants in Greenwich.
>>>> Substitute "Jewish" for "Vietnamese" and then honestly say whether you
>>>> are still comfortable to have said what you have said (and, even more
>>>> importantly, with what "Nick" has said).
>>> Apples and oranges.
>>> Jewish - Christian - Muslim - Bhuddist - Parsi/Zoroast - Hindu
>>> Vietnamese - English - German - Indian - Israeli - Korean
>> It's difficult to know how to treat that response, because I certainly
>> don't accept it.
>>
>> As I ask in another post nearby, what would you have done had the
>> driver's name been "Shlomo Greenberg"?
>
> If there were a couple of Kosher restaurants in Greenwich historic
> centre, I would have named them, along with a note to the effect that
> the rumour of the driver being a restaurateur and the driver's name
> may not be related.

I'm finding it difficult to believe either that you are naive enough to
have done that, or that you think others are naive enough to believe
that you would have done it. Face it - what was done (the urging of a
boycott - even if done in an ostensibly deniable way) was indefensible.