Re: first night ride & lighting questions



M

mikepenton

Guest
With the Nottingham night rides & Phil's canalside ride, this evening I
thought I'd have a go for the first time. particularly good timing as it
had just finished raining heavily & I had gone home from work early
feeling ill.

did I forget anything? yes - I forgot that the Muni was in the car and
that the car was 15 minutes walk away... anyway it was a nice walk.

I had a Petzl zoom headtorch and a £10 single-LED Cateye light (mounted
as low as possible above the forks) to show the way and some spoke LED
lights for the Blackpool illuminations touch. It wasn't particularly
dark as the low cloud was reflecting the London light pollution well.

it was a pretty flat, well trodden path with a little mud, leaves and
branches, but what a challenge! it's kind of... umm.... zen-like? I may
as well have been riding blindfold. The lights weren't bad, but subtle
changes in gradient were invisible. a few UPDs later I tried mounting
the cateye on my shoe, under the laces (taking the attitude of you're
not going to find out if you don't try!). a bit better, but off-putting.
2 may have worked... but I reverted to the mounting.

it was my shortest ride for a long time ( a mile maybe?) but I returned
covered in mud & itching to do it again, but with more lighting!


the questions:

what's the best lighting setup? I got the cateye as I knew it wouldn't
get in the way and I could get the right mounting. I'd like to know what
joemarshall's is but I imagine it's very expensive for a casual rider.

where do you mount the lights? the lower the better I assume, so you see
shadows & therefore terrain changes can be more easily tackled. I'm
probably over-paranoid about knee-room - is side mounting lights
common?

thanks in advance
Mike

PS - the under-the-laces idea could be good as additional secondary
lighting...!


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my freind and I sometimes go down this 2 mile downhiil trail that leads
right to our school. and we go at 5:30 in the morning (still pitchblack
for us) and ride to school. we use very **** headlamps, but its more fun
when you have tunnel vision, it makes it way more challenging. but i
wish i had more light. night riding is fun, except one time we came
across two bears, but it ended all ok.


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I just started night rides two weeks ago. My usual solo route is mostly
off-road, with a little street
(http://www.flashbangstudios.com/tests/hike-red.jpg , if you're curious
what Arizona terrain is like). I did a little research before I
purchased, both here on the forums and elsewhere on the web. I was
hoping to get by with a similiar light to the one you're using, simply
because the bike lights on the market are extremely pricey. There are a
lot of hiking/camping head lights out there that aren't very expensive
at all.

After reading up and talking to some people, though, I decided it was
worth the money. It just isn't feasible to go with anything less than a
mid-range bike light setup. This is what I use:

http://tinyurl.com/6eh5x

The high-end of bike lights are HID setups. They're insanely
bright--very blue/white light. In my opinion, they're overkill for the
slower speeds of unicycling (as compared to downhill/freeride on a
bike). HID lights are $400-500 USD; something like:

http://tinyurl.com/47zve

The cheapest quality head-mountable lights seem to be around $100 USD.
The charge time is longer, though, and the low-end systems aren't aware
of battery life while in use. You can easily damage them by depleting
the battery. The light I purchased is Niterider's cheapest "digital"
setup, with a smart charger and low-light reserve when the battery runs
out.

The other big bike light company, at least in the US, is Light & Motion:
http://www.bikelights.com/ . They seem comparable to Niterider in all
respects; I'm not sure if one company produces better quality lights
than the other or not.


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mandarin - Arizona MUni
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I haven't actually tried night muni yet but I've gone out at night a bit
on that other cycle I have with the extra wheel. I've found the head
mounted light to be the best for me. It always points where you look so
you always have light where you need it.

The decent lights that are made for off road riding have much brigher
and cleaner light than the really cheap lights. As someone else
mentioned, they can get outrageously expensive ($500) but I think those
are way overkill...at least for me.

I spent 100 bucks on the nightrider single headlight.
http://tinyurl.com/5jr5z

This was a dramatic improvement over my AA powered crappy light. I still
keep the crappy light with me as a backup. It would suck to be caught
out in the middle of the woods at night with no light at all if the one
on your head breaks.


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gohfish - who knew one wheel could be so fun
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Joe's lights are a set of lumicycles from http://tinyurl.com/3ncv5
which are very nice and about £170.

Mine are a based mainly on 'this' (http://tinyurl.com/5fon7) using 5W
and 10W MR11 bulbs and 32mm pipe bits, and they do the job nicely, but
are a bit of a faff /exciting and interesting experiment. (delete as
applicable). If you want I'll post some more details.

If you want to buy lights I suggest looking at smart lights, which start
at about £40 depending on what you want, or there are some good one's by
electron which are supposed to be good even if no-one has heard of the
brand. You can find those on wiggle.co.uk.

On our nightrides we've all had helmet/head mounted lights, although I
have thought about using frame mounted to add some shadows. The problem
there is that off road a frame mounted light won't always be pointing
where you're going on complicated bits where you really need it.

Hope that helps.

John


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All good advice above.

Personally, if you're going for Halogens I'd get at least 20W of
lighting- but 35W is even better. I find that 10-20W is adequate but a
little scary and tiring if the trail is not smooth- you miss a lot of
bumps, and when you hit them unexpectedly it takes some effort not to
UPD. It's just so much more fun if you can see where you're going.

The other thing is to go for a wide angle bulb- something like 30
degrees, simply because you are not interested in seeing 100m in front
of you- you want to see 5-10m ahead. If the beam is too focussed you'll
end up following this intensely bright spot in front of you, and that
actually makes your vision worse as your pupils contract.

I use 'Nightlightnings' (http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/) . I'm
thinking of upgrading to a Luxeon LED system- heaps cheaper than HID's,
and almost as efficient.

Ken


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Mine are lumicycles with 20w flood bulb and 12w spot bulb. Most of the
time I ride with just the 12w spot. For muni riding, the spot is enough.
Sometimes if I'm going very fast, I want the 20w flood. I previously had
a 10w flood+12w spot, which is also a nice combination. If you're riding
a 29er or bigger wheel, 20w of light is nice to have, especially if
you're quite a fast rider. I'm not sure I quite ride fast enough to
justify 35w, but I'm sure Ken does.

Gary (unicus) has a cheap head torch, which came with a battery holder,
a 6V 5W halogen bulb and an LED backup. They're pretty common. He
upgraded the bulb to a 10w bulb (£2.50 from maplin) and uses a 4ah lead
acid battery which he replaced the battery holder with (about £5 or so).
Add a cheap charger and some wires and you've got a 10w light for not
very much at all. If you've already got a charger that'll charge lead
acid batteries, this costs about £20. A cheap charger isn't much more.

John's is a bit more expensive, but more posh. The brightness of that
setup is pretty much the same as lumicycles, the only difference is that
he's running lead acid batteries.

What you pay lots for in the lumicycles is the nice relatively
lightweight batteries and the nice smart charger and also for the
convenience of having it all wired together for you. If you're not
completely cack handed with a soldering iron, I'd suggest doing
something along the lines of Gary or John's setups, as you get a good
light for not much and you can always upgrade the batteries if you get
hooked.

Nightlightnings are very nice, but even more expensive than lumicycles
once you've imported them over here.

I don't like frame mounted lights. Especially if you're going fast, you
seem way too likely to break bulbs. Also the way the light wiggles while
you're riding is just too annoying. I'm for head mounted lights all the
way.

Joe


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Oops forgot:

This might be useful if you are handy with making stuff:
http://www.jeremyb.net/projects.html

The homemade versions are way cheaper and kinda cool (You can use things
like baked beans/beer cans/baby-food cans as your lighting
cyclinders).

And the end result is a lot more lighting for you $$$. You might not
get the fancy dimming circuitry, but at I find that I hardly use that
anyway. The money saved can easily buy you enough batteries so you can
run the lights at full power all night.


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I worked at a bike shop for about 5 years and we did a lot of mountain
biking at night. We tried many different setups ( boy is it nice to get
stuff at dealer cost!). What we found was the best was a light on the
handlebars (or uni frame) to see where you are steering and a light on
the head to see where you are looking. Here is a link for a cheap
headlamp that works well.

http://tinyurl.com/3r8bp


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jefferyluce
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I regularly ride at night as I get of work at midnight and ride home; I
have red LEDs on the wheel, frame, backpack, and helmet with a NiteRider
Storm on my helmet
[image: http://gallery.unicyclist.com/album378/Helmet_light]

Or, if the picture doesn't show, 'look here'
(http://gallery.unicyclist.com/album378/Helmet_light). Note that I've
modified the mount so I could put it on -top- of the helmet - -any-
light that mounts on the front of your helmet will seem heavier than it
really is.

It cost me $250USD on eBay when the list price was 400. I wanted it
because I was going to be using it on a recumbent tricycle that can
easily attain speeds over 25 MPH on flat roads. I've used other lights
but this one works for 4 hours with a reasonable sized battery and gives
clean (no shadows from a lens/reflector) light that can reach out and
touch. I used this one at FURECUS and some of the people there can
attest to its brightness as we used it as the sole lighting in a cave
for more than ten people.

I've not done any night MUni - yet - so I cannot remark on it under
those circumstances but it's *BRIGHT*. It may be over-kill, but I like
it.


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brian.slater - Nellfurtiti, the Wonder Cat

Brian C. Slater
AKA: Snoopy

Ok, I am now officially in my normal state of -advanced- confusion.
Don't try to confuse me, it won't make any difference.

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As always thanks folks. I don't think any lighting could be called
overkill, but it may reduce that frisson gained with a lack of
visibility!

I'll probably take it bit by bit.
I've remembered that the Petzl I've got is about 15 years old, so it
could do with replacing. but I'm going to pop in to Maplins tomorrow to
see if I can upgrade the bulb. maybe the battery isnt too fresh either!


The Nightlightnings look good & seem cheap when converted, so I may get
someone to get them for me. the Agent Luminare seems very good - up to
35 watts for GB£81 plus shipping! oops - forgot VAT & import duty. 15% &
17.5% at the moment I think. Also spares could be a problem. they show
GB£49.95 all-in to the UK for a replacement 35w bulb!

My only concern with the DIY versions is waterproofing and (of course)
making a total hash of it. the Petzl could possibly be a good donor...

Cheers
Mike


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joemarshall wrote:
> *Gary (unicus) has a cheap head torch, which came with a battery
> holder, a 6V 5W halogen bulb and an LED backup. *


I bought it from Maplins, it’s 'this one' (http://tinyurl.com/4hhv5)
for £7.99, it’s comfortable and not heavy. Add some batteries and it’s a
good 5 watt halogen headlight (which can change from spot to flood) with
an LED backup. If you’re not sure if night riding is for you (like I
did) then it’s a cheap option. Of course I couldn’t leave it at that and
as Joe said I swapped the supplied battery box (it takes 4 D type cells
BTW) for a 6v 4.5 Ah sealed lead acid battery then put a 10 watt halogen
lamp in. I had no heat problems and the headlight would probably take a
more powerful lamp.

On Wednesday’s night ride I was not the brightest (light wise) rider and
was outshined by both Joe and John (light and fitness wise) but I found
my light perfectly adequate for me. One definite advantage twin halogens
have is if one blows you don’t have to replace the lamp before
continuing riding. The backup LED on the headlight I have would not by
adequate for riding without street lights but should pass for legal
requirements if required.

Something to consider is your normal eyesight. I’m fortunate in having
good eyesight and my headlight works for me but if you have some vision
impairment (wear glasses, contacts etc.) the type of light and position
that’s good for some may not be suitable for others.

Gary


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ParadoX wrote:
> Uhh I dont know about the lighting setup but you should probably mount
> the lights below your seatpost (I cant imagine anywhere else)


With powerful lights mounted anywhere on the unicycle, you'll tend to
get distracting moving shadows as your knees move up and down on either
side of the beam of light (IME). It also becomes really difficult to
mount when your light is shining up in your eyes instead of down at the
ground.

My setup is similar to Joe's, 2 Lumicycles (a 10W spot and a 20W mid,
which I'm thinking of replacing with a 20W spot), mounted on a helmet.
It's the only reason I'll wear a helmet on a yike.

Head mounting works well as long as it's not foggy, raining or (worst of
all) snowing Then the light just bounces back in your eyes. In those
situations, if I'm on a unicycle I'll take the lights off the helmet and
hold them in my hand. I've tried attaching them to my waist, but the
side-to-side movement of the patch of light in front of me was far too
distracting.

If I'm on my bike and it gets foggy then I just have to slow down and
make do with the dynamo light at the front of the bike (although I've
requested a quotation for a recumbent loom, which will allow me to mount
the Lumis at the front of the bike and control them with handlebar
mounted switches).

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I'm just getting into night muni riding and use a fairly powerfull hand
held diving torch and a less powerfull head torch as back up or for when
my torch holding hand is occupied on keeping balance, I find it's quite
effective and easy to point it where I want, although I haven't tried
anything too technical yet which would require too much arm waving and
seat grabbing.


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Matt.P.Herbert - Muni Hungry

You do WHAT on it?
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I'm just getting into night muni riding and use a fairly powerfull hand
held diving torch and a less powerfull head torch as back up or for when
my torch holding hand is occupied on keeping balance, I find it's quite
effective and easy to point it where I want, although I haven't tried
anything too technical yet which would require too much arm waving and
seat grabbing.


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You do WHAT on it?
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I'm just getting into night muni riding and use a fairly powerfull hand
held diving torch and a less powerfull head torch as back up or for when
my torch holding hand is occupied on keeping balance, I find it's quite
effective and easy to point it where I want, although I haven't tried
anything too technical yet which would require too much arm waving and
seat grabbing.


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You do WHAT on it?
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For night riding, you usually want as much light as possible. For night
Muni, 24 hour races etc, I use a 'NiteRider Cyclone'
(http://www.niterider.com/BIKEPRODUCTS/Cyclone.html) on my helmet. This
is an HID light and very powerful. It lasts 4 hours on the full
intensity setting and 7 hours on the lower setting. I used the lower
setting in New Zealand doing the Moonride and only needed my backup
light for an hour or two after it died. But I was kicking myself for not
buying an extra battery since I would've really preferred riding at the
high setting. The battery alone costs '$135'
(http://tinyurl.com/5ku8b)

For bike commuting all winter, I use this light on my helmet plus a
'NiteRider Digital 6V system' (http://tinyurl.com/4ooca) on the
handlebars. For the back, I use a 'Real Lite 18-led rear flasher'
(http://www.reallite.com/details.htm) which is great.

Either in traffic or on technical terrain, lots of light is really an
advantage.

On the other hand, I started fullmoon mountain biking in 1984. For the
next 10 years, we REMOVED our lights for all fullmoon rides - on
purpose. The idea was to get closer to nature and not try and go fast.
Those were some magical rides, pitch black under the trees. It was Bruce
Bundy in about 1995 or so who introduced me to the concept that with a
high-powered bike light you could go fast. The tunnel vision affect on
twisty narrow singletrack is incredible. Since then I've gone on maybe
100 offroad night rides, always with one or more lights.

---Nathan


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nathan wrote:
> *For night riding, you usually want as much light as possible. For
> night Muni, 24 hour races etc, I use a 'NiteRider Cyclone'
> (http://www.niterider.com/BIKEPRODUCTS/Cyclone.html) on my helmet.
> This is an HID light and very powerful. It lasts 4 hours on the full
> intensity setting and 7 hours on the lower setting. I used the lower
> setting in New Zealand doing the Moonride and only needed my backup
> light for an hour or two after it died. But I was kicking myself for
> not buying an extra battery since I would've really preferred riding
> at the high setting. The battery alone costs '$135'
> (http://tinyurl.com/5ku8b)
>
> For bike commuting all winter, I use this light on my helmet plus a
> 'NiteRider Digital 6V system' (http://tinyurl.com/4ooca) on the
> handlebars. For the back, I use a 'Real Lite 18-led rear flasher'
> (http://www.reallite.com/details.htm) which is great.
>
> Either in traffic or on technical terrain, lots of light is really an
> advantage.
>
> On the other hand, I started fullmoon mountain biking in 1984. For the
> next 10 years, we REMOVED our lights for all fullmoon rides - on
> purpose. The idea was to get closer to nature and not try and go fast.
> Those were some magical rides, pitch black under the trees. It was
> Bruce Bundy in about 1995 or so who introduced me to the concept that
> with a high-powered bike light you could go fast. The tunnel vision
> affect on twisty narrow singletrack is incredible. Since then I've
> gone on maybe 100 offroad night rides, always with one or more
> lights.
>
> ---Nathan *



Yeah, I was pretty envious of your HID Nathan :) , but at the end of the
day (or night), I was glad to be running at full power 35W all night-
even if it took 6 very cheap and heavy 7a/hr SLA batteries to do it :D.


Interesting you should mention riding by moonlight- sounds like fun. I
reckon if you've got weak lights, you're actually better off riding
without them and let your eyes focus with the moonlight.


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GizmoDuck wrote:
> *
>
> Yeah, I was pretty envious of your HID Nathan :) , but at the end of
> the day (or night), I was glad to be running at full power 35W all
> night- even if it took 6 very cheap and heavy 7a/hr SLA batteries to
> do it :D.
>
> Interesting you should mention riding by moonlight- sounds like fun.
> I reckon if you've got weak lights, you're actually better off riding
> without them and let your eyes focus with the moonlight. *



I did a 9 hour road ride in the dark once, from London to the coast. I'd
got two 4 hour batteries with me and I got there without running out the
first one. It's amazing how easy it is to ride on roads in the dark as
long as there's enough light for you to see the hedges/fences at the
edge of the road.

I can totally recommend riding through to dawn by the way, especially if
you can organise yourself to arrive at a hill overlooking the sea or
something nice like that just before dawn.

Joe


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