Re: Frilegh Starts The TPD!!!!!



On 16 Jul 2003, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

>
> Lori,
>
> Just a friendly suggestion:
>
> You should have your doctor check an hsCRP. This would be a marker of
> vascular inflammation which seems to happen to folks on Atkins even
> when the cholesterol profile appears to be fine. High hsCRP is a
> significant risk factor for the development of coronary disease.
>
> Nonetheless, congrats on losing weight even with Atkins.
>

Really? Is that the same test as a c-reactive protein or something
entirely different?

Martha



--
Begin where you are - but don't end there.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:

>
> Just a friendly suggestion:
>
> You should have your doctor check an hsCRP. This would be a marker of
> vascular inflammation which seems to happen to folks on Atkins even
> when the cholesterol profile appears to be fine.

Please cite your source. Thanks.

--
Wayne Crannell
Atkins+ 10/27/01
250/140
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:

> This would be a marker of
> vascular inflammation which seems to happen to folks on Atkins even
> when the cholesterol profile appears to be fine.

Please cite your source. Thanks.
--
***************************************************
Doctor Wayne T. Crannell, Jr., B.F.A., M.M., D.M.A.
Chair, Department of Music
Director of Choral/Vocal Music
Associate Professor of Music
AUSTIN COLLEGE
Sherman, Texas
***************************************************
 
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:05:16 GMT, Wayne Crannell
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
>
>> This would be a marker of
>> vascular inflammation which seems to happen to folks on Atkins even
>> when the cholesterol profile appears to be fine.
>
>Please cite your source. Thanks.
>--
>***************************************************
>Doctor Wayne T. Crannell, Jr., B.F.A., M.M., D.M.A.
>Chair, Department of Music
>Director of Choral/Vocal Music
>Associate Professor of Music
>AUSTIN COLLEGE
>Sherman, Texas
>***************************************************


Why should he? You called Chung a fraud. Why would you care to hear
info from a fraud, Crannell?

I have $10,000 that says you are a liar and that Chung is exactly who
he says he is.

Put up or shut up.

"Live To Eat? Nyet. Eat To Live!"
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
Martha Gallagher <[email protected]> wrote:

> > You should have your doctor check an hsCRP.

> Really? Is that the same test as a c-reactive protein or something
> entirely different?

Yes but with the distinction of being "high sensitivity" - thus the "hs"
prefix.
 

>>I know that after about ten minutes of eating my stomach will try and
>>tell me to not eat any more. But I often force it to accept it.

>Ask yourself why do you do this?


I have given my eating habits a lot of serious thoughts. I have come
to some conclusions.

But I have some confusions about eating too.

I am of a large family. Very large. I have seen three generations of
my people grown.

I have noticed that there are family members which are all of
different body sizes.

In one family of eight children, there will be two or three chubby
children along side of the five thin ones. These children will all eat
from the same mother who is cooking the same kinds of meals.
They are receiving their eating habits from the same source and eating
the exact same food but yet they will have different body sizes.

You can see those same family members, twenty years later, at a family
reunion. They will all be grown and in the same kinds of shapes as
they were as children. The thin ones will be thin and the chubby ones
chubby.

It is this way with my family. My father, sister and I are all large
while my mother and brother are thin.

My brother is sixty years old and still wears the same size pants he
did when we were in high school. I am wearing pants eight times larger
in size. Yet when ever my brother comes to my house to visit or I go
to his he will eat three times the amount of food as I do from the
same food source.
And this has been the same ever since I have known him. (sixty years)

I can not conclude that just eating is involved in my size. I know
about the calorie count and if I eat less I get smaller. But I am not
certain that there isn't something else involved here working to make
me the size I usually am.

I found out that if I just let myself go in my eating habits. If I
just eat what I want and how much I want for years on end. As I have
done for most of my life. I will get to one size and stop.

One might or could think.. that if one ate too many calories for ones
body it would just grow until it pops. But for some other mysterious
reason it stops at one size.

But as for your question regarding why do/did I tend to eat when I
knew my hunger was gone or that my stomach was full.

One of the reasons for that is because I came from a large number of
the population of those people who didn't have much material items in
one life. Their life was limited to a low income. Working on
uninteresting jobs which consisted of more labor than anything else.

When one is nineteen, married with a child, working three miles under
the ground in Clay Co. Kentucky for fourteen hours a day six days a
week.
Living in a community in the Appalachia Hills where poverty and
political corruption is more common than it isn't. Then what is for
supper is most important.
I have spent many years of my life doing a job without much pay in
money or life and while working those long hours there would only be
one thing to look forward too. And that would be what was for supper
that night.

I can well remember more evenings that I like to recall laying on my
back, as the ceiling in a coal mind was never more than 32 inches
high. I would be laying there, shoveling the spilled coal from the
conveyer belt back on it while the belt sped the loose coal to the
mouth of the mine.

I would have no light except for the twelve volt light on my minors
hard hat. It was just me and that conveyer belt.
I believe I am speaking for millions of low paid workers in our
country. Living a life with nothing to do and too much time to do it
in.

I am not complaining. I did not go to a higher form of education and I
made that choice of going into the mines after high school. But the
point is I was in a situation where one of the "highlight" moments of
my day was "what was for supper"..

I was living in the south, and southern food was always the fare.
Which means the meals I dreamed of were such:

Fried white onions and potatoes.
Fried pork chops in at least one inch of saturated grease.
(in my neighborhood fried bacon grease was saved and used for such)
Milk Gravey made from the grease the pork chops were fried in.
Green half runner beans from the garden, cooked one and one half hour
in jowel pork meat. (smoked neck meat ) with bacon grease added for
flavor.
Home made "cat head" biscuits. (cat head because they were four inches
across and three inches high) filled with sorgums and butter mix.
Two or three large squares of corn bread. (southern not northern corn
bread which is much different)
two or three ice cold glasses of whole milk. (from cows and not the
store. Cream still in it)
and a healthy slice of dutch apple pie for dessert.

I would do my job and think about supper. As supper was the best part
of my day.. And in the south it is not unusual for suppers to last at
least two hours.
Folks back home sit and talk to one another. Supper time is the family
talking time.

That is what I meant by.. eating more than my stomach needed.

I want to make one thing perfectly clear...( is Richard Nixon around?)
Supper time was always the best part of my day for too many years.
But I am not saying it was the best part of my "night".. smile..
My late wife was a very lovely person. smile..

Monte
 

>>I know that after about ten minutes of eating my stomach will try and
>>tell me to not eat any more. But I often force it to accept it.

>Ask yourself why do you do this?


I have given my eating habits a lot of serious thoughts. I have come
to some conclusions.

But I have some confusions about eating too.

I am of a large family. Very large. I have seen three generations of
my people grown.

I have noticed that there are family members which are all of
different body sizes.

In one family of eight children, there will be two or three chubby
children along side of the five thin ones. These children will all eat
from the same mother who is cooking the same kinds of meals.
They are receiving their eating habits from the same source and eating
the exact same food but yet they will have different body sizes.

You can see those same family members, twenty years later, at a family
reunion. They will all be grown and in the same kinds of shapes as
they were as children. The thin ones will be thin and the chubby ones
chubby.

It is this way with my family. My father, sister and I are all large
while my mother and brother are thin.

My brother is sixty years old and still wears the same size pants he
did when we were in high school. I am wearing pants eight times larger
in size. Yet when ever my brother comes to my house to visit or I go
to his he will eat three times the amount of food as I do from the
same food source.
And this has been the same ever since I have known him. (sixty years)

I can not conclude that just eating is involved in my size. I know
about the calorie count and if I eat less I get smaller. But I am not
certain that there isn't something else involved here working to make
me the size I usually am.

I found out that if I just let myself go in my eating habits. If I
just eat what I want and how much I want for years on end. As I have
done for most of my life. I will get to one size and stop.

One might or could think.. that if one ate too many calories for ones
body it would just grow until it pops. But for some other mysterious
reason it stops at one size.

But as for your question regarding why do/did I tend to eat when I
knew my hunger was gone or that my stomach was full.

One of the reasons for that is because I came from a large number of
the population of those people who didn't have much material items in
one life. Their life was limited to a low income. Working on
uninteresting jobs which consisted of more labor than anything else.

When one is nineteen, married with a child, working three miles under
the ground in Clay Co. Kentucky for fourteen hours a day six days a
week.
Living in a community in the Appalachia Hills where poverty and
political corruption is more common than it isn't. Then what is for
supper is most important.
I have spent many years of my life doing a job without much pay in
money or life and while working those long hours there would only be
one thing to look forward too. And that would be what was for supper
that night.

I can well remember more evenings that I like to recall laying on my
back, as the ceiling in a coal mind was never more than 32 inches
high. I would be laying there, shoveling the spilled coal from the
conveyer belt back on it while the belt sped the loose coal to the
mouth of the mine.

I would have no light except for the twelve volt light on my minors
hard hat. It was just me and that conveyer belt.
I believe I am speaking for millions of low paid workers in our
country. Living a life with nothing to do and too much time to do it
in.

I am not complaining. I did not go to a higher form of education and I
made that choice of going into the mines after high school. But the
point is I was in a situation where one of the "highlight" moments of
my day was "what was for supper"..

I was living in the south, and southern food was always the fare.
Which means the meals I dreamed of were such:

Fried white onions and potatoes.
Fried pork chops in at least one inch of saturated grease.
(in my neighborhood fried bacon grease was saved and used for such)
Milk Gravey made from the grease the pork chops were fried in.
Green half runner beans from the garden, cooked one and one half hour
in jowel pork meat. (smoked neck meat ) with bacon grease added for
flavor.
Home made "cat head" biscuits. (cat head because they were four inches
across and three inches high) filled with sorgums and butter mix.
Two or three large squares of corn bread. (southern not northern corn
bread which is much different)
two or three ice cold glasses of whole milk. (from cows and not the
store. Cream still in it)
and a healthy slice of dutch apple pie for dessert.

I would do my job and think about supper. As supper was the best part
of my day.. And in the south it is not unusual for suppers to last at
least two hours.
Folks back home sit and talk to one another. Supper time is the family
talking time.

That is what I meant by.. eating more than my stomach needed.

I want to make one thing perfectly clear...( is Richard Nixon around?)
Supper time was always the best part of my day for too many years.
But I am not saying it was the best part of my "night".. smile..
My late wife was a very lovely person. smile..

Monte
 
Bob Pastorio <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

<snip>
> Bwahahahahaha <That's rich - wipes away tears of ironic mirth>

Sounds like a nervous breakdown to me.

<snip>

> > http://www.heartmdphd.com/christ.asp
> >
> > Non-believers usually can't handle the truth. It hurts too much.
>
> This page on your website is "Religion Lite."

It seems your world revolves around food *and* beer.

> It has the same
> theological depth as your 2PoundStarvationDiet has nutritional depth.
>
> Pastorio

Tell that to God. The glory is His.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
 
In article <[email protected]>,
*Mu* <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:59:19 GMT, Wayne Crannell
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Just a friendly suggestion:
> >>
> >> You should have your doctor check an hsCRP. This would be a marker of
> >> vascular inflammation which seems to happen to folks on Atkins even
> >> when the cholesterol profile appears to be fine.
> >
> >Please cite your source. Thanks.
> >
> >--
> >Wayne Crannell
> >Atkins+ 10/27/01
> >250/140
>
> Why should he?

Because if he is any sort of authority, scientist, or expert, he should
easily be able to back up such a claim.

--
Wayne Crannell
Atkins+ 10/27/01
250/140
 
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Walter Midi wrote:

> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> Martha Gallagher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > You should have your doctor check an hsCRP.
>
> > Really? Is that the same test as a c-reactive protein or something
> > entirely different?
>
> Yes but with the distinction of being "high sensitivity" - thus the "hs"
> prefix.

Is there much of a difference, or is the regular one close enough for
government work?

I think the last time we discussed this on the low-carb newgsroup *most*
of the people who chimed in had readings in the low range, but of course
that may be selection bias (or my memory).

On my last blood test, it came back as <1, so I'm assuming that's on the
low end of that lab's range, but since I don't have results from before
low carb I don't know if it got better or stayed the same, but I assume
that so far I'm not one of the people for whom it got worse.

Martha, who is really wondering if the "fluffy LDL" is actually a joke
that escaped or a real subspecies of LDL.

--
Begin where you are - but don't end there.
 
Montgomery Hounchell <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:00:24 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <[email protected]> wrote:

> >Nutritionally it does turn out to be enough.
>
> As a Chef, I wish to comment and ask:
>
> When I was attending school A dietatician came into one of our
> classes and stated:
>
> One cup of beans
> One piece of corn bread
> One cup of milk
>
> was all the nutrition a person needed a day.
>
> Is this correct from your knowledge?

Not quite. The milk proteins would provide all the essential amino
acids. The corn bread would provide the complex carbohydrates. The
beans though providing most of the vitamins may not have enough
vitamin C.

> I have often thought of that statement which was taught to me over
> forty years ago. And have wondered if one could actually receive all
> their nutritional needs in such a small amount of food.

Growing babies thrive on just milk.

> I have never attempted it myself.
>
> But I did have one experience which might be related to this diet.
>
<snip>

> Certainly your diet plan of two pounds of food a day seems to fall
> into my past experiences. As two pounds is what? four cups of food a
> day.

Depends on the food.

> that is a very small amount

It is relative to what the average person eats in the US. It is not
relative to what the average person is eating in most other countries.

> but if one can get their nutritional
> needs in it then I would have to say it would be alright. As I know
> from first hand experience that one can lose the hunger from not
> eating large amounts of food.
>
>
> >Why should anyone believe a Chef when it comes to food intake and losing
> >weight?
>
> No one should. This knowledge was not taught in the school I attended.
> Actually becoming chef is not as difficult as one might suppose.
>
> Thank you for any comments.
>
> Monte

Thanks for sharing.

God Bless,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
 
*Mu* <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >> It's both the diet and the proponents. It's partly because of the
> >> cumulative effect of Mu's insolent and belligerent posts that are
> >> specifically malicious and have hurt people and do so by his design.
>
> On 16 Jul 2003 12:33:47 -0700, [email protected] (Dr. Andrew B.
> Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
>
>
> >The 2PD has nothing to do with Mu hurting your feelings. I suspect he
> >would have been inclined to trounce on your feeling long before he
> >reached ideal body weight on the 2PD.
>
> Mu hurt? Mu bad? Mu sorry.
>
> Mu suffers fools like Pastorio lightly. Chung right. Fat Mu still
> would have eaten Pastorio up. But only 2 pounds of Chef per day, thank
> you.

:)

God Bless,

Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
 
Martha Gallagher <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 16 Jul 2003, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> >
> > Lori,
> >
> > Just a friendly suggestion:
> >
> > You should have your doctor check an hsCRP. This would be a marker of
> > vascular inflammation which seems to happen to folks on Atkins even
> > when the cholesterol profile appears to be fine. High hsCRP is a
> > significant risk factor for the development of coronary disease.
> >
> > Nonetheless, congrats on losing weight even with Atkins.
> >
>
> Really? Is that the same test as a c-reactive protein or something
> entirely different?

It is a different test. The standard c-reactive protein is not sensitive enough .

God Bless,

Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
 
Wayne Crannell <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
>
> >
> > Just a friendly suggestion:
> >
> > You should have your doctor check an hsCRP. This would be a marker of
> > vascular inflammation which seems to happen to folks on Atkins even
> > when the cholesterol profile appears to be fine.
>
> Please cite your source. Thanks.

Consider it an "insider's tip."

God Bless,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
 
Monntgomery Hounchell <[email protected]> wrote:
> One might or could think.. that if one ate too many calories for ones
> body it would just grow until it pops. But for some other mysterious
> reason it stops at one size.

The reason is not mysterious to science. Natural metabolism
increases with mass---more with lean mass than fat---but it increases
nonetheless.

At some point the metabolism will increase to match the intake.
 
Walter Midi <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> Martha Gallagher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > You should have your doctor check an hsCRP.
>
> > Really? Is that the same test as a c-reactive protein or something
> > entirely different?
>
> Yes but with the distinction of being "high sensitivity" - thus the "hs"
> prefix.

Correct.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
 
Martha Gallagher <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Walter Midi wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <[email protected]>,
> > Martha Gallagher <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > > You should have your doctor check an hsCRP.
>
> > > Really? Is that the same test as a c-reactive protein or something
> > > entirely different?
> >
> > Yes but with the distinction of being "high sensitivity" - thus the "hs"
> > prefix.
>
> Is there much of a difference, or is the regular one close enough for
> government work?

The former.


--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
 
To Bob's comments, I would add, if you are sincere and not trolls,
then why are you posting on a newgroup for low carb support? The
newsgroup is not titled diet debates. If you believe your diet is so
great, start your own newgroup.



*Mu* <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >> I'm trying to figure out why a food writer is taking such exception with
> >> "just another diet". I would think it would be entirely beneath someone with
> >> your credentials to engage in such caustic discourse about it. Your body of
> >> work seems to show a lot more class than that.
>
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:15:59 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >It's personal. The TPD attacks his entire way of life. The way he sees the
> >universe.
>
> This is the crux of the matter. A rather bizarre psychological and
> emotional response, nonetheless.
>
> Yep, the 2PDiet is a simple, and as cutting, as a knife.
>
> It holds you completely and irrevocably accountable, you can't toss it
> off for being "complicated" or too academic, you can't say it is too
> expensive or time consuming, you can't do anything with the 2PDiet
> except look it, and yourself, straight dead away and either call
> yourself to the task or realize that, in the end, you really don't
> want to face the facts of your obesity.
>
> You eat too much.
>
> "Live To Eat? Nyet. Eat To Live!"
 
[email protected] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Consider it an "insider's tip."
>
> God Bless,
>
> Andrew

Translates to "I don't know". UGH. A REAL doctor could easily
identify a source, or at least list a patient record of this
happening. You, apparently, have neither. SO SHUT UP. If MY doctor
ever gave me a quack response like that I'd find a new doctor, and
pronto. Notice Lori doesn't respond? Because you're probably
killfiled with her for being a freaking quack.

Oh Mu, as the Chung crusader, please bless me with your rebuttal. I'm
DYING to know what you can come up with.

(Mu response: Well, if you're on Atkins you're killing yourself
already.)

Beth V
216/165/145
LC since 1/17/03
 
In article <[email protected]>, *Mu*
<[email protected]> wrote:

> >> It's both the diet and the proponents. It's partly because of the
> >> cumulative effect of Mu's insolent and belligerent posts that are
> >> specifically malicious and have hurt people and do so by his design.
>
> On 16 Jul 2003 12:33:47 -0700, [email protected] (Dr. Andrew B.
> Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
>
>
> >The 2PD has nothing to do with Mu hurting your feelings. I suspect he
> >would have been inclined to trounce on your feeling long before he
> >reached ideal body weight on the 2PD.
>
> Mu hurt? Mu bad? Mu sorry.
>
> Mu suffers fools like Pastorio lightly. Chung right. Fat Mu still
> would have eaten Pastorio up. But only 2 pounds of Chef per day, thank
> you.
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> "Live To Eat? Nyet. Eat To Live!"

Mu, Chung Hoff, Pastorio and all others from the groups above plus the
muscle fitness group---

Please stop cross posting your everlasting, stupid and unending feuds
to ASD. Only two people on the group are following the TPD and are
doing it in an objective manner.

Why do others here have to suffer with having the board cluttered up
with absolute nonsense.?

It's one thing to post valid comments or questions about the diet
itself, but this battle of personalities is ridiculous. Almost none of
you are giving support or info to those on ASD who are not interested
in the TPD one way or the other and you are really antagonizing. I do
speak for myself but would guess many others here share my opinion.

Now *please* confine your verbal fencing to your own neck of the woods.
My kill file is overburdened.

And Mu, ditch the pigdin English!

--
Diva
*************
The Best Man for the Job is a Woman
 
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