Re: Frilegh Starts The TPD!!!!!

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Carol Frilegh, Jul 11, 2003.

  1. "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Barbara Hirsch wrote:
    >
    > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:27:23 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > >Is that the diet you are advocating?

    > >
    > > No. But telling folks that they'll lose weight if they limit their
    > > intake to 2 pounds of food a day isn't true. What you eat counts.
    > >

    >
    > If you are overweight eating what you are currently eating, changing what

    you
    > are eating to ice cream is not going to help.
    >
    > Decreasing the *amount* of what you are eating will, however.
    >
    > >
    > > >I sincerely doubt there is anyone who can eat two pounds of Hagen Daaz
    > > >everyday for six months.

    > >
    > > Wouln't be me, but there are all kinds of people out there. I eat a
    > > lot more tahn 2 pounds of food a day, and have been normal weight for
    > > 5 years.
    > >

    >
    > For all we know, a lot more than 2 pounds is 2.5 pounds. For all we know,
    > your "normal" weight is 20 pounds over what is considered ideal (BMI =

    20).
    >


    So you feel that a BMI of 25 is overweight, even if the subject has 10%
    bodyfat?
     


  2. Carol Frilegh wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Chris Malcolm
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Barbara Hirsch <[email protected]> writes:
    > >
    > > >On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:27:23 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
    > > ><[email protected]> wrote:

    > >
    > > >>Is that the diet you are advocating?

    > >
    > > >No. But telling folks that they'll lose weight if they limit their
    > > >intake to 2 pounds of food a day isn't true. What you eat counts.

    > >
    > > It's possible to devise extreme scenarios such as a midget eating 2lbs
    > > of milk chocolate a day, but in practice this claim that the 2lb diet
    > > will reduce weight will only be false if it's possible to devise a
    > > reasonably balanced 2lb diet which someone with normal physiology
    > > would be prepared to eat for more than a few days and on which they
    > > would not lose weight.
    > >
    > > That's a simple challenge which would refute the claims made for the
    > > 2lb diet and settle the controversy once and for all. Google finds a
    > > large number of people who have repeatedly claimed that it would be
    > > ridiculously easy to do this, but IMHO can't find anyone actually
    > > doing it.
    > > --
    > > Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 650 3085 DoD #205
    > > School of Informatics, Edinburgh University, 5 Forrest Hill,
    > > Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK. [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/ ]

    >
    > Someone who follows the diet and wishes to lose weight will configure
    > it appropriately for that purpose.


    And someone who unconsciously "lives to eat" will try to find every reason
    not to try the 2PD.

    > It is not my concern that the author
    > has not given more possibilities and suggestions.


    And it should not be your concern. Just as it is not our concern that the
    writers of the original Constitution of the United States did not give more
    scenarios or laws.

    > However I seem to be
    > blessed with sufficient intelligence to make the necessary tweaks.


    Most have that blessing. They have to overcome their "living to eat"
    first...

    > A
    > person with a Ferrari isn't obligated to drive it at top speed or
    > corner dangerously in order to ride well yet I'm sure the
    > aforementioned extremes are considered selling points.


    And there are folks out there (sour-graping, imo :) who will say they
    would never buy a Ferrari because it goes too fast.

    God Bless,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/
     
  3. Jayjay

    Jayjay Guest

    On 18 Jul 2003 09:57:57 -0700, [email protected] (Dr. Andrew B.
    Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:

    >[email protected] (Chet Hayes) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> To Bob's comments, I would add, if you are sincere and not trolls,
    >> then why are you posting on a newgroup for low carb support? The
    >> newsgroup is not titled diet debates. If you believe your diet is so
    >> great, start your own newgroup.

    >
    >Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Chef Pastorio started this thread.


    You are wrong. This thread was actually started by Carol Frilegh
    Message-ID: <080720031810415899%[email protected]> on July 8th.

    Actually - the original thread was started by Cat in ASD - Carol
    started a new thread with the same subject in effort to continue the
    thread - yet not realizing how "threading" works on usenet.

    The subject line has been changed numerous times in the last week.
     
  4. ".." <louisDOTjezsikATarinsoDOTcom> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Chet Hayes" <[email protected]> wrote
    > >
    > > To Bob's comments, I would add, if you are sincere and not trolls,
    > > then why are you posting on a newgroup for low carb support? The
    > > newsgroup is not titled diet debates. If you believe your diet is so
    > > great, start your own newgroup.

    >
    > Here, here!
    >
    > I actually suggested this approach to Mu. Unfortunately, he either doesn't
    > know how to create a group, or believes it would be a very empty group and
    > he'd have no audience. The problem is, I guess, he's not sincere -- just a
    > troll, plain and simple.


    Ahem, correct me if I am wrong, but you started this thread.

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/
     
  5. Bob Pastorio

    Bob Pastorio Guest

    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
    >
    > Barbara Hirsch wrote:
    >
    > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:27:23 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:


    > > >If you have the genes for great cholesterol, there is nothing you can eat
    > > >that will change this.

    > >
    > > I'm not sure about that, but if you have genes for bad cholesterol
    > > what you eat can certainly improve the numbers.

    >
    > I have $10,000.00 in my savings account that I will transfer to yours today if
    > you show me one person whose genes have been changed by what they eat.


    WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

    Pastorio (Same $10K as the ones in Mu's posts...?)
     
  6. Bob Pastorio

    Bob Pastorio Guest

    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
    >
    > [email protected] (Chet Hayes) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > To Bob's comments, I would add, if you are sincere and not trolls,
    > > then why are you posting on a newgroup for low carb support? The
    > > newsgroup is not titled diet debates. If you believe your diet is so
    > > great, start your own newgroup.

    >
    > Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Chef Pastorio started this thread.


    I didn't start it, I just changed the header to reflect reality.

    Trying to correct you ranks up there with trying to teach a pig to sing.
    It'll never happen, it pisses off the pig and wastes time. Plus ham is
    still ham.

    Pastorio
     
  7. ..

    .. Guest

    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > > I actually suggested this approach to Mu. Unfortunately, he either

    doesn't
    > > know how to create a group, or believes it would be a very empty group

    and
    > > he'd have no audience. The problem is, I guess, he's not sincere -- just

    a
    > > troll, plain and simple.

    >
    > Ahem, correct me if I am wrong, but you started this thread.


    You mean the "Cardiologists and quack diets" thread? Consider yourself
    corrected, I did not start this thread.
     
  8. On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:49:28 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
    <[email protected]> wrote:


    >I start being able to stop BP and cholesterol medications for my patients as
    >their BMI approaches 20.


    BMI of 20 is not ideal for everyone. That's why there's a range.

    I have been to your site, and if the pictures are of you, you are a
    small Asian man. Asians have lower BMI requirements than Caucasians
    and Blacks. As a matter of fact, recent literature points that Asians
    start having metabolic problems at a BMI of 23.

    On the other hand, Cal Ripkin and Michael Jordan, when they were
    playing baseball and basketball respectively had BMIs of 27.

    My husband and I are both white, of Eastern European decent. At a BMI
    of 22 my husband looked too skinny, at a BMI of 20, he's way too
    skinny. His BF is probably under 5%. He's one of those people who
    naturally has a lot of lean body mass and very little body fat. He had
    nothing to pinch before, and nothing to pinch now.

    My BMI is 24 and my BF is 20% (determined by underwater weighing). I'm
    50 years old. I wasn't even sure what a BMI of 20 was for me, but
    looked it up. It's 102 pounds. I look cadaverous at 102 pounds and at
    95 pounds (BMI 19) you can see both of the bones in my forearm and my
    upper chest (above my breasts) sticks out. The only reason that I know
    is that I got pneumonia that I couldn't shake when I was 19 and my
    body weight fell for a while.

    I was never overweight until I was 35, and haven't been overweight
    since I was 45 (losing 86 pounds in a year and a half).

    I don't look normal at any weight below 115 pounds, a BMI of 22.5 for
    me. I'm pretty much the same size as a 115 pound woman at 124 pounds
    because lifting weights has kept my BF level relatively low. I've been
    this weight within a couple of pounds either way since 1997. I wear
    between a size 4-6 slim cut jeans (Banana Republic). If I got much
    smaller, I'd have to buy my clothes in Hawaii, or another market that
    caters to Asian women.

    All my numbers are normal and my blood pressure is on the low side.

    I've never eaten 2 pounds of food or even 3 pounds. However, I do eat
    reasonably sensibly and exercise a lot.


    Barbara Hirsch, Publisher
    OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS
    The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development
    http://www.obesity-news.com/
     
  9. Bob Pastorio

    Bob Pastorio Guest

    ".." wrote:
    >
    > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote
    > >
    > > > I actually suggested this approach to Mu. Unfortunately, he either

    > doesn't
    > > > know how to create a group, or believes it would be a very empty group

    > and
    > > > he'd have no audience. The problem is, I guess, he's not sincere -- just

    > a
    > > > troll, plain and simple.

    > >
    > > Ahem, correct me if I am wrong, but you started this thread.

    >
    > You mean the "Cardiologists and quack diets" thread? Consider yourself
    > corrected, I did not start this thread.


    Right. He also thought I did. It's that attention span thing. I just
    changed the header. One of his sockpuppets started it.

    Yep, That attention span thing. Well, that and the IQ thing. And the
    integrity thing. And the netkook thing. And the ignorance about food and
    mountain climbers thing. And the friendship with Mu thing. And that
    incapacity to consider any error on his part thing.

    And the conveniently rediscovered religious depth. Love how it suddenly
    became so desperately urgent and hit the sig line.

    When he can fake that sincerity thing a little better, he'll have it
    all.

    Pastorio
     
  10. Barbara Hirsch <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:49:28 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >I start being able to stop BP and cholesterol medications for my patients as
    > >their BMI approaches 20.

    >
    > BMI of 20 is not ideal for everyone. That's why there's a range.


    It seems to be for allowing folks to come off their medications. God
    only knows as to why. Just is, ime.

    > I have been to your site, and if the pictures are of you, you are a
    > small Asian man.


    I am 5'10" and 145 lbs. I bench press 245 lbs.

    > Asians have lower BMI requirements than Caucasians
    > and Blacks.


    As determined by what method ?

    > As a matter of fact, recent literature points that Asians
    > start having metabolic problems at a BMI of 23.


    Some asian-americans... as do some caucasians and some
    african-americans.

    > On the other hand, Cal Ripkin and Michael Jordan, when they were
    > playing baseball and basketball respectively had BMIs of 27.


    Isn't Michael Jordan african-american?

    > My husband and I are both white, of Eastern European decent. At a BMI
    > of 22 my husband looked too skinny, at a BMI of 20, he's way too
    > skinny.


    That is in your opinion. However, his coming off his meds says
    otherwise.

    > His BF is probably under 5%. He's one of those people who
    > naturally has a lot of lean body mass and very little body fat. He had
    > nothing to pinch before, and nothing to pinch now.


    There is such a thing as visceral fat.

    > My BMI is 24 and my BF is 20% (determined by underwater weighing). I'm
    > 50 years old. I wasn't even sure what a BMI of 20 was for me, but
    > looked it up. It's 102 pounds. I look cadaverous at 102 pounds and at
    > 95 pounds (BMI 19) you can see both of the bones in my forearm and my
    > upper chest (above my breasts) sticks out. The only reason that I know
    > is that I got pneumonia that I couldn't shake when I was 19 and my
    > body weight fell for a while.


    That was more than 30 yrs ago.

    > I was never overweight until I was 35, and haven't been overweight
    > since I was 45 (losing 86 pounds in a year and a half).
    >
    > I don't look normal at any weight below 115 pounds, a BMI of 22.5 for
    > me.


    That would still be your opinion.

    > I'm pretty much the same size as a 115 pound woman at 124 pounds
    > because lifting weights has kept my BF level relatively low. I've been
    > this weight within a couple of pounds either way since 1997. I wear
    > between a size 4-6 slim cut jeans (Banana Republic). If I got much
    > smaller, I'd have to buy my clothes in Hawaii, or another market that
    > caters to Asian women.


    I suspect Petite Sophisticates would have your size without your
    having to go to Hawaii.

    > All my numbers are normal and my blood pressure is on the low side.


    If they weren't, lowering your weight to *ideal* should help.

    > I've never eaten 2 pounds of food or even 3 pounds. However, I do eat
    > reasonably sensibly and exercise a lot.


    If your doctor says your weight is perfect, then there's no indication
    for changing the amount that you are eating.

    God Bless,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com

    P.S. Signing with your real name and title is liberating isn't it?
     
  11. ".." <louisDOTjezsikATarinsoDOTcom> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote
    > >
    > > > I actually suggested this approach to Mu. Unfortunately, he either

    > doesn't
    > > > know how to create a group, or believes it would be a very empty group

    > and
    > > > he'd have no audience. The problem is, I guess, he's not sincere -- just

    > a
    > > > troll, plain and simple.

    > >
    > > Ahem, correct me if I am wrong, but you started this thread.

    >
    > You mean the "Cardiologists and quack diets" thread? Consider yourself
    > corrected, I did not start this thread.


    Go ahead and check Google.

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com
     
  12. "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > I am 5'10" and 145 lbs. I bench press 245 lbs.
    >


    Is that a gym lift or a competition lift?
     
  13. "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "JC Der Koenig" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I am 5'10" and 145 lbs. I bench press 245 lbs.
    > > >

    > >
    > > Is that a gym lift or a competition lift?

    >
    > Gym with a spotter. 2 45lb plates and a 10 lb plate on both sides.
    >
    > I am not a "small" guy.
    >


    Small is very relative. I'm 5'10" and I competed in 10 and 15K races at
    160/165, some years back. Now, my cut weight is 185/190. That seems small to
    me.
     
  14. *Mu*

    *Mu* Guest

    On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:23:13 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> I am 5'10" and 145 lbs. I bench press 245 lbs.
    >>

    >
    >Is that a gym lift or a competition lift?


    What difference would it make? Does 245 weigh more in one or the
    other?

    "Live To Eat? Nyet. Eat To Live!"
     
  15. "*Mu*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:23:13 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> I am 5'10" and 145 lbs. I bench press 245 lbs.
    > >>

    > >
    > >Is that a gym lift or a competition lift?

    >
    > What difference would it make? Does 245 weigh more in one or the
    > other?
    >


    Have you ever lifted weights in your life?
     
  16. *Mu*

    *Mu* Guest

    On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:03:48 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> What difference would it make? Does 245 weigh more in one or the
    >> other?
    >>

    >
    >Have you ever lifted weights in your life?


    Not once.

    <chuckle>


    "Live To Eat? Nyet. Eat To Live!"
     
  17. "*Mu*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:03:48 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> What difference would it make? Does 245 weigh more in one or the
    > >> other?
    > >>

    > >
    > >Have you ever lifted weights in your life?

    >
    > Not once.
    >


    Too bad, because then you'd know what a pause at the bottom will do to 245
    pounds as compared to a touch and go.

    "Bench to Live? Nein. Live to Bench!"
     
  18. *Mu*

    *Mu* Guest


    >> >Have you ever lifted weights in your life?

    >>
    >> Not once.


    >><chuckle>



    On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:37:13 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Too bad, because then you'd know what a pause at the bottom will do to 245
    >pounds as compared to a touch and go.


    I need help here and would appreciate your enlightenment.

    Why are some of those weight bars silver and some black. I am thinking
    about joining one of those newfangled gyms and I don't want to hurt
    myself. Are the weights with th rubber on them heavier than the ones
    made of metal?

    Could you recommend a weight training program for me?

    "Live To Eat? Nyet. Eat To Live!"
     
  19. "*Mu*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > >> >Have you ever lifted weights in your life?
    > >>
    > >> Not once.

    >
    > >><chuckle>

    >
    >
    > On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:37:13 GMT, "JC Der Koenig"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Too bad, because then you'd know what a pause at the bottom will do to

    245
    > >pounds as compared to a touch and go.

    >
    >
    > Could you recommend a weight training program for me?
    >


    Yeah, SUT/Roose/whoever, try to back away from your fantasy world created
    through the internet, and do some pushups. When you can do 100 without
    stopping, perhaps you'll be ready to fix what ails you.
     
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