Re: Go Faster New Bike Recommendations ?



H

Harris

Guest
In rec.bicycles.tech "Steve Sr." whose message will self destruct in a few
days wrote:

> I am currently using a Cannondale T2000 as an all-purpose road bike.
> It was originally bought mostly for commuting so it has fenders, rear
> rack, and front handlebar bag. I made the mistake of putting it on the
> bathroom scale once and it topped out at about 38 pounds with full
> water bottles.

Unless you're going to put fenders, rear rack, etc. on the new bike, this
is an unfair comparision. A lighter bike *may* let you climb a little
faster. But calculate the percent difference of the TOTAL weight of bike +
rider + Misc for the two bikes. I'll bet it's between 1 and 2 percent -
not a big deal unless you're already are as skinny as Tyler Hamilton.

> Here are the things that I want to have on the new bike:

> 1. The frame material I am leaning toward is TI.

May save a pound or so over steel, but at a price.

> 3. Wide range cogs in the back but not quite as wide as the 11-34 on
> the Cannondale. Something like 12-27 would probably be good
> compromise. This may dictate a wide range (i.e. mountain) deraileur.

Standard Ultegra der will handle 12-27. Get long cage der if you use a
triple.

> 7. Micro-adjust seatpost. I really like the Thompson seatpost that
> came with the Cannondale.

No "p" in Thomson. Check eBay. I just bought a brand new Thomson for $33.
Very nice post.

> 8. Brooks leather saddle.

And your trying to save weight??!!

> 9. I'm open for suggestions on wheels. It seems that there are too
> many choices out there. I'm looking for light weight / reliable.

Reliability is usually inversely proportional to weight, all else being
equal. Hard to recommend a specific wheel without knowing your weight.
Hard to go wrong with well built conventional wheels.

Art Harris
 
Harris wrote:

>> 1. The frame material I am leaning toward is TI.
>
> May save a pound or so over steel, but at a price.

Actually it's more like a quarter to half a pound over lightweight steel. But
you don't have to worry about the paint being scratched, so your bike will stay
looking good forever. Could be worth it.

Matt O.
 
Harris wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.tech "Steve Sr." whose message will self destruct in a few
> days wrote:
>
>
>>8. Brooks leather saddle.
>
>
> And your trying to save weight??!!
>


And ride it in the rain?
--
My bike blog:
http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/
 
"Steve Sr." wrote:

> I think weight
> is only part of the issue. The rest of the equation is rolling
> resistance and inertia with the large and significantly heavier wheels
> on the T2000.

Inertia is only an issue when accelerating. Translational inertia has a far
greater effect than rotational inertia. Translational inertia has to do with
getting the mass of you and the bike moving down the road. Lighter wheels
aren't going to make as much difference as you may think. If you were doing
match sprints on the track it would be a different story.

I'm not trying to throw cold water on your plans, but I've seen too many
people buy new bikes thinking it would make them faster only to be
disappointed. After the initial "new bike syndrome" wears off, I think
you'll be very lucky to see a 1 mph difference.

>>Standard Ultegra der will handle 12-27. Get long cage der if you use a
>>triple.
>
> Is there a long cage available in Ultegra road or would I have to go
> with a mountain type i.e. XTR.

Yes. You can get either an Ultegra rear der for use with either a double or
triple front. The triple version has a longer cage.

Art Harris
 
>The new bike will *not* have all of these accessories. I think weight
>is only part of the issue. The rest of the equation is rolling
>resistance and inertia with the large and significantly heavier wheels
>on the T2000.

Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which may
carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not designed
for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference *may*
contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

>Is there a long cage available in Ultegra road or would I have to go
>with a mountain type i.e. XTR.

Ultegra has long cage derailleur designed for triple duty with up to a 27T
cog. If you decide you want a larger cog a mountain type derailleur is an
option which can be used.

>Thanks for the tip. I guess I need to decide on the frame first or are
>seat posts all the same diameter?

Buy the bike first, seat post diameters do vary.

>>> 9. I'm open for suggestions on wheels. It seems that there are too
>>> many choices out there. I'm looking for light weight / reliable.
>>
>>Reliability is usually inversely proportional to weight, all else being
>>equal. Hard to recommend a specific wheel without knowing your weight.
>>Hard to go wrong with well built conventional wheels.

The problem is all else is rarely equal. A set of light wheels built by a
competent factory or a sharp wheelbuilder can be much more reliable than a
heavier wheel built by a so-so builder.

I've had good luck with Bontrager Race-X Lites. They are light, but not
stupid light, and reasonably aero. My wife and I probably each have over
20,000 miles on ours with no problems.

OTOH, I had a set of 32 spoke wheels built by a supposedly local good
builder a number of years ago. My wife, who weighs all of 100 pounds,
proceeded to break spokes on a regular basis. I had them rebuilt by builder
guru Dave Thomas (http://speeddream.com/) and the problems ceased. If you
are leaning toward handbuilt wheels, you may want to give Dave a call.


Chris Neary
[email protected]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh
 
"Chris Neary" <[email protected] > wrote

> Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which
may
> carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not designed
> for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference
*may*
> contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.

This is neither logical nor true.
 
"Chris Neary" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >The new bike will *not* have all of these accessories. I think weight
> >is only part of the issue. The rest of the equation is rolling
> >resistance and inertia with the large and significantly heavier wheels
> >on the T2000.
>
> Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which
may
> carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not designed
> for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference
*may*
> contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.
>
> >Is there a long cage available in Ultegra road or would I have to go
> >with a mountain type i.e. XTR.
>
> Ultegra has long cage derailleur designed for triple duty with up to a
27T
> cog. If you decide you want a larger cog a mountain type derailleur is an
> option which can be used.
>
> >Thanks for the tip. I guess I need to decide on the frame first or are
> >seat posts all the same diameter?
>
> Buy the bike first, seat post diameters do vary.
>
> >>> 9. I'm open for suggestions on wheels. It seems that there are too
> >>> many choices out there. I'm looking for light weight / reliable.
> >>
> >>Reliability is usually inversely proportional to weight, all else being
> >>equal. Hard to recommend a specific wheel without knowing your weight.
> >>Hard to go wrong with well built conventional wheels.
>
> The problem is all else is rarely equal. A set of light wheels built by a
> competent factory or a sharp wheelbuilder can be much more reliable than
a
> heavier wheel built by a so-so builder.
>
> I've had good luck with Bontrager Race-X Lites. They are light, but not
> stupid light, and reasonably aero. My wife and I probably each have over
> 20,000 miles on ours with no problems.
>
> OTOH, I had a set of 32 spoke wheels built by a supposedly local good
> builder a number of years ago. My wife, who weighs all of 100 pounds,
> proceeded to break spokes on a regular basis. I had them rebuilt by
builder
> guru Dave Thomas (http://speeddream.com/) and the problems ceased. If you
> are leaning toward handbuilt wheels, you may want to give Dave a call.
>
>
> Chris Neary
> [email protected]
>
> "Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
> you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
> loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh
 
"Chris Neary" <[email protected] > wrote

> The problem is all else is rarely equal. A set of light wheels built by a
> competent factory or a sharp wheelbuilder can be much more reliable than
a
> heavier wheel built by a so-so builder.

> I had a set of 32 spoke wheels built by a supposedly local good
> builder a number of years ago. My wife, who weighs all of 100 pounds,
> proceeded to break spokes on a regular basis. I had them rebuilt by
builder
> guru Dave Thomas (http://speeddream.com/) and the problems ceased.

The problem of spoke breakage is entirely solved by stress relieving. You
don't need a guru to do this, it's easy to learn and quick to do. Any pair
of standard wheels can be tensioned/stress relieved and trued in an hour by
somebody with modest skill; the only tool needed is a spoke wrench. See the
FAQ and Sheldon Brown's site for how-to.
 
Peter Cole wrote:

> "Chris Neary" wrote
>
> > Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring
> > bike which may carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely
> > stable. Bikes not designed for loaded touring will be quicker
> > handling. This geometry difference *may* contribute to your
> > difficulty in keeping up on downhills.
>
> This is neither logical nor true.

It could well be true, but for a different reason. Touring frames
tend to have a more upright position than racing frames, making it
more difficult to get a decent aero tuck position.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
"Terry Morse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Peter Cole wrote:
>
> > "Chris Neary" wrote
> >
> > > Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring
> > > bike which may carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely
> > > stable. Bikes not designed for loaded touring will be quicker
> > > handling. This geometry difference *may* contribute to your
> > > difficulty in keeping up on downhills.
> >
> > This is neither logical nor true.
>
> It could well be true, but for a different reason. Touring frames
> tend to have a more upright position than racing frames, making it
> more difficult to get a decent aero tuck position.

How do touring frames have a more upright position? (I have 4 and haven't
seen it).
 
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:45:31 GMT, "Peter Cole"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<L52vd.488839$wV.289690@attbi_s54>:

>How do touring frames have a more upright position? (I have 4 and haven't
>seen it).

Well, y'see, touring frames are all uprighty and wedgesome, whereas my
bike is laid right back As Nature Intended ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
>> Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which
>>may carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not designed
>> for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference *may*
>> contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.
>
>This is neither logical nor true.

Are you arguing

1) touring bikes are not designed to be more stable than "performance"
bikes,

OR

2) Geometry differences would not effect one's ability in keeping up on
downhills

OR

3) Both.




Chris Neary
[email protected]

"Prize the doubt, low kinds exist without"
- Inscription at Ramsmeyer Hall, Ohio State University
 
Peter Cole wrote:

> > It could well be true, but for a different reason. Touring frames
> > tend to have a more upright position than racing frames, making it
> > more difficult to get a decent aero tuck position.
>
> How do touring frames have a more upright position? (I have 4 and haven't
> seen it).

Maybe I made too general a statement, but I can only get my bars
about 2" below the saddle on my Klein tourer.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
"Terry Morse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Peter Cole wrote:
>
> > > It could well be true, but for a different reason. Touring frames
> > > tend to have a more upright position than racing frames, making it
> > > more difficult to get a decent aero tuck position.
> >
> > How do touring frames have a more upright position? (I have 4 and
haven't
> > seen it).
>
> Maybe I made too general a statement, but I can only get my bars
> about 2" below the saddle on my Klein tourer.

You must have very little seatpost showing, which is a pretty rare setup
these days.
 
"Chris Neary" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >> Another factor will be geometry. The T2000, being a touring bike which
> >>may carry heavy loads, is designed to be extremely stable. Bikes not
designed
> >> for loaded touring will be quicker handling. This geometry difference
*may*
> >> contribute to your difficulty in keeping up on downhills.
> >
> >This is neither logical nor true.
>
> Are you arguing
>
> 1) touring bikes are not designed to be more stable than "performance"
> bikes,

What do you mean by more stable?


>
> OR
>
> 2) Geometry differences would not effect one's ability in keeping up on
> downhills

What geometry differences are you talking about?

Why don't you just explain your claims. & we'll go from there?
 
"Peter Cole" wrote:

> > Maybe I made too general a statement, but I can only get my bars
> > about 2" below the saddle on my Klein tourer.
>
> You must have very little seatpost showing, which is a pretty rare setup
> these days.

About a "fistfull of seat post", which once upon a time was the
standard. The classic touring frame builders like Rivendell still
recommend this:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/bikes_framesize.html
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
>> 1) touring bikes are not designed to be more stable than "performance"
>> bikes,
>
>What do you mean by more stable?

Less sensitive to steering inputs.


>> 2) Geometry differences would not effect one's ability in keeping up on
>> downhills
>
>What geometry differences are you talking about?

Principally trail.

>Why don't you just explain your claims. & we'll go from there?

Why didn't you ask nicely in the first place?



Chris Neary
[email protected]

"Information, usually seen as the precondition of debate,
is better understood as its by-product." - Christopher Lasch
 
On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 17:15:35 -0800, Terry Morse
<[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

>About a "fistfull of seat post", which once upon a time was the
>standard.

Dear Terry,

Something about your phrase made my eyes narrow in an
extended close-up . . .

"A Fistful of Seat-Post"

"For a Few Gears More"

"The Good, the Bad, and the Fury RoadMaster"

"Once Upon A Time-Trial in the West"

Sergio Leone
 
Carl Fogel Wrote:

> Something about your phrase made my eyes narrow in an
> extended close-up . . .
>
> "A Fistful of Seat-Post"
>
> "For a Few Gears More"
>
> "The Good, the Bad, and the Fury RoadMaster"
>
> "Once Upon A Time-Trial in the West"
>
> Sergio Leone

"Park Tools for Sister Sara"

?
 
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