Re: Harbour Bridge Ride - Critical Mass



P

persia

Guest
cfsmtb wrote:

> In context, I thought "persias" remark was bizarre and some what
> disappointing, since recently he was extending a peace, love and mung
> beans attitude towards several Melb bike folk, but now he's gone all
> sectarian again.


The Taliban comparison was colourful language, to be sure. Substitute
Exclusive Brethren, or the fundo religious group of your choice if you
like.

I've always tried to be on relatively good terms with all parties,
criticising where it was due and praising the same. I have criticised
Baz and defended him at times, I have done the same for a variety of CM
people.

If you think that my criticising CM is being sectarian, then I regret
to inform you that you have just made my point - that CM seems to be
above criticism - an article of faith. That's what Zebee & I have have
done: criticised CM, and asked some reasonable questions, which have
not been answered and cannot be answered.

Persia
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
persia said:
BTW: you haven't really answered the questions posed by Zebee & echoed
by myself. I would suggest that this is because there are no answers.

They have been answered - and also forwarded on for people in Sydney. Incidently, I *first* asked Zebee to answer these exact same questions back in July. She had plenty of time and has been deadly quiet on the subject since.

http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=3092327&postcount=35

Also, your question, whatever it is, has been picked up on via CM-Melb - so why don't you take the discussion there or the CM-Sydney list if the reply you receive isn't to your personal taste? BTW - Moz has got a 2nd hand sim card going cheap ...

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/cm-melb/message/7614

If you don't like that explanation either, please feel free to explain upon your opinions either at the next CM-Melb ride or take it up on the list. As for your self-appointed role as a contrarian, you seriously don't really do much, other than not talking *openly* about your opinions, except to mutter darkly in the background and bewildering people by having a personal attitude that runs hot and cold.

In answer to the childish Taliban reference, maybe you should of been more sensible with the analogy, refer below.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~mvcarmac/women1.html
 

bikesaint

New Member
Aug 25, 2004
2
0
0
> drivers who see / are held up by Critical Mass get angry

This view (or similar) expressed on this list and by the media can only indicate that the proponent has not been on a Critical Mass ride. Yes, the odd person gets upset, but the majority cheer and wave and do a thumbs up - even during the Harbour Bridge ride last Friday. The police, afterward, said how happy they were with it - it went smoothly and was trouble-free. Please, if you are going to state something as fact - check it out first. Not from one incident you read about or saw, but actually see what it's really like on a ride. The majority of drivers smile and wave as they are politely thanked for waiting and that their patience is appreciated. On the Harbour Bridge ride we even hand out flowers to drivers as a symbol of goodwill, and it works. Please show you can do better than believing what you read in the gutter press, otherwise how can you expect anyone to have respect for you.

> Critical Mass has never achieved anything

Again - just shows how ignorant one can be. Does this person mean that they've never seen "and thanks to Critical Mass for making this possible" on a government document? What a surprise! Actually, CM is responsible for the NSW government's "Action for Bikes" which, for the first time, pledged $250 million in 1999. Yes, really, it was in response to the CM "four link bikeplan" campaign.

And then there was the day that CM rode on the M4 to protest cyclists being charged a toll. The toll was dropped the next day.

And then there are all the other things you don't hear about and that aren't credited to CM...

***
Please - the level of antagonism and ignorance I've seen on this list makes it unlikely I'll visit very often. It really would help for everyone to try and build understanding and communication rather than hostility, and to ensure that comments are informed.

Fiona
Sydney
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on 25 Nov 2006 23:49:20 -0800
persia <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Activism lite.


Whenever there's a need to "do something" in the motorcycle world, the
first suggestion and the most popular is "protest ride!".

People love them. They love to be in this big mass, love the feel of
power and community, love the idea that they are now in the majority
and others must notice and give way. Love the feeling of importance.

That they do bugger all isn't important.

Pollies don't give a **** about mass demonstrations unless they get to
the size and frequency of the Vietnam moratoriums. Anything less than
that is nothing, except maybe a safety valve, a way for people to feel
they've done their bit so they can now go on their way. No need to do
anything actually difficult or time consuming. A protest ride is a
couple of hours out of your day, it gives much pleasure, and it allows
you to tick the box of caring.

Seems to me that CM is vry rewarding. It gives a feeling of power,
it gives a feeling of community, it's anonymous so you can do things
you couldn't otherwise do.

Which is why it generates such passion both for and against.

Just as useless as any protest ride though.

Zebee
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 27 Nov 2006 06:36:43 +1100
bikesaint <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> drivers who see / are held up by Critical Mass get angry

>
> This view (or similar) expressed on this list and by the media can only
> indicate that the proponent has not been on a Critical Mass ride. Yes,
> the odd person gets upset, but the majority cheer and wave and do a
> thumbs up - even during the Harbour Bridge ride last Friday. The


Really?

Then the people I saw didn't exist, and the ones who talked to me
about it on the weekend didn't either?

We see what we want to see.


> police, afterward, said how happy they were with it - it went smoothly
> and was trouble-free. Please, if you are going to state something as


Meaning that no one fell off, and no one attacked anyone. Good
enough, but not the point. THe police definition of trouble free is
"we didn't have to put the sirens on" not "it didn't upset anyone.


> fact - check it out first. Not from one incident you read about or
> saw, but actually see what it's really like on a ride. The majority of
> drivers smile and wave as they are politely thanked for waiting and that
> their patience is appreciated. On the Harbour Bridge ride we even hand
> out flowers to drivers as a symbol of goodwill, and it works. Please
> show you can do better than believing what you read in the gutter
> press, otherwise how can you expect anyone to have respect for you.



I was there for the miller st section. I was looking at drivers and
cars and peds. And I talk to people who aren't cyclists.

>
> Again - just shows how ignorant one can be. Does this person mean that
> they've never seen "and thanks to Critical Mass for making this
> possible" on a government document? What a surprise! Actually, CM is
> responsible for the NSW government's "Action for Bikes" which, for the
> first time, pledged $250 million in 1999. Yes, really, it was in
> response to the CM "four link bikeplan" campaign.


What, not in response to holding up traffic?

But in response to an actual standard advocacy method?

Zebee
 
D

Donga

Guest
cfsmtb wrote:

> BTW - being an old Roys fans you've touched a raw nerve here. For those
> who came in late, Fitzroy died a death of a thousand cuts back in 1996 &
> was merged with Brisbane. I really haven't gotten over it & haven't
> followed footy since. {sob}.


I'm happy to have you declared an honorary Brisbanite if you'll go with
the Lions.

Donga
 
B

Big Bear

Guest
bikesaint wrote:
>>drivers who see / are held up by Critical Mass get angry

>
>
> This view (or similar) expressed on this list and by the media can only
> indicate that the proponent has not been on a Critical Mass ride. Yes,
> the odd person gets upset,


Stacks according to the posting on the CM list, including one person who
said they were reduced to getting out of their taxi at 5:45pm and
walking. Funny bit is that the mass had not started by that time {:).


>>Critical Mass has never achieved anything

>
>
> Again - just shows how ignorant one can be. Does this person mean that
> they've never seen "and thanks to Critical Mass for making this
> possible" on a government document? What a surprise! Actually, CM is
> responsible for the NSW government's "Action for Bikes" which, for the
> first time, pledged $250 million in 1999. Yes, really, it was in
> response to the CM "four link bikeplan" campaign.
>
> And then there was the day that CM rode on the M4 to protest cyclists
> being charged a toll. The toll was dropped the next day.
>
> And then there are all the other things you don't hear about and that
> aren't credited to CM...


like BNSW finally getting off their backsides to given some support to
their local advocacy groups and finally, finally appointing an advocacy
officer.

>
> ***
> Please - the level of antagonism and ignorance I've seen on this list
> makes it unlikely I'll visit very often. It really would help for
> everyone to try and build understanding and communication rather than
> hostility, and to ensure that comments are informed.


It is the caffee-lattee' crowd of wanna-bees. If you read carefully,
many spend more time with their **** on/in motorised transport.
 
B

Big Bear

Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> We see what we want to see.


Exactly, but you've declared yourself as a more frequent user of
motorised transport, so we know what sort of glasses you wear.
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:08:19 +1100
Big Bear <[email protected]> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> We see what we want to see.

>
> Exactly, but you've declared yourself as a more frequent user of
> motorised transport, so we know what sort of glasses you wear.


Really?

you sure?[1]


As it happens, I am riding the pushbike more than the motorbike at the
moment. And as I am a motorcyclist I don't get held up by bicycles
singly or en mass as a rule.

Being against Cm doesn't mean being against cycling. Or even being
not that much in favour of same. Just means being against certain
forms of activism that I believe make my life as a cyclist harder not
easier.

I expect a fair few divorced fathers with custody issues think the
twats running around in superhero costumes are doing them no favours,
but are not against better outcomes for themselves.

However, I am glad to see you agree that the CM people are biased and
so they aren't seeing things that are against their point of view.
WHich goes to show what we should all know - the plural of anecdote
(mine or yours) is not data.

To say "no one is upset because I didn't see them" is foolish. I have
no doubt not everyone was upset, but I know people were, because I saw
them.



Zebee

[1] silly question I know. Of course you are sure.
 

EuanB

New Member
Jan 11, 2005
877
0
0
bikesaint said:
> drivers who see / are held up by Critical Mass get angry

This view (or similar) expressed on this list and by the media can only indicate that the proponent has not been on a Critical Mass ride.
False. I've been on a CM ride and there were plenty of people who were less than impressed. Maybe the one ride I've been on was a bad one but the impression I had from that ride was that it was bad PR. That's why I haven't been on another one.

Now how about having a bit of respect for others and stop jumping to conclusions?
 

EuanB

New Member
Jan 11, 2005
877
0
0
Big Bear said:
bikesaint wrote:

> ***
> Please - the level of antagonism and ignorance I've seen on this list
> makes it unlikely I'll visit very often. It really would help for
> everyone to try and build understanding and communication rather than
> hostility, and to ensure that comments are informed.


It is the caffee-lattee' crowd of wanna-bees. If you read carefully,
many spend more time with their **** on/in motorised transport.

Just for clarity, the only reason I'm driving at the moment is 'cause I've got a broken leg. Normally I ride 300km a week, all of it commuting and most of it solo. And it's a double shot espresso please, milk just ruins the coffee :)
 
D

Duncan

Guest
Big Bear wrote:
> It is the caffee-lattee' crowd of wanna-bees. If you read carefully,
> many spend more time with their **** on/in motorised transport.


hardly..

I ride approx 25k x 2 4/5 days of the week to work.. often 5/5. That'd
be 200-250k/week on a bike. I'd be luck to drive 50k on the weekends,
and that's with the wife and two kids in the car.

I don't race bikes, or drink latte (much preferring a flat white)
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:36:06 +1100
EuanB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Big Bear Wrote:
>>
>> It is the caffee-lattee' crowd of wanna-bees. If you read carefully,
>> many spend more time with their **** on/in motorised transport.

>
> Just for clarity, the only reason I'm driving at the moment is 'cause
> I've got a broken leg. Normally I ride 300km a week, all of it
> commuting and most of it solo. And it's a double shot espresso please,
> milk just ruins the coffee :)


Ah, but the definition of "wannabe" isn't what you ride, or where or
how long. It's if you are ideologically sound.

Zebee
 
Z

Zebee Johnstone

Guest
In aus.bicycle on 26 Nov 2006 20:18:48 -0800
Duncan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Big Bear wrote:
>> It is the caffee-lattee' crowd of wanna-bees. If you read carefully,
>> many spend more time with their **** on/in motorised transport.

>
> hardly..
>
> I ride approx 25k x 2 4/5 days of the week to work.. often 5/5. That'd
> be 200-250k/week on a bike. I'd be luck to drive 50k on the weekends,
> and that's with the wife and two kids in the car.
>
> I don't race bikes, or drink latte (much preferring a flat white)


I do a bit under 2.5 hours a day commuting 3-5 days a week. If I'm not
on the pushie I am on the motorbike but that takes about 1.5 hours.
Plus these days I'm only doing 1-2 hours on the motorbike when not
commuting, and about 30 mins on the bent, shopping and usually an hour
or so just riding. So the **** is on the unpowered two wheeler for more
of the time.

And I don't drink coffee.

Zebee
- wondering why Cm advocates tend to the sillier end of the spectrum
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
Hey Donga, may take up you offer of honoury "Brisbanite". North or South? Can I attend a LA ride in absentia?
 

cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
EuanB said:
Just for clarity, the only reason I'm driving at the moment is 'cause I've got a broken leg. Normally I ride 300km a week, all of it commuting and most of it solo. And it's a double shot espresso please, milk just ruins the coffee :)

You sound like a likely recruit for JavaBUG! What's your preference, Robusta or Arabica blends? Ever heard of Civet Cat coffee? :p
 

monsterman

New Member
Apr 23, 2005
564
0
0
cfsmtb said:
Hey Donga, may take up you offer of honoury "Brisbanite". North or South? Can I attend a LA ride in absentia?
If you have to ask, I'm afraid the answer is North, at least until you can:
  • provide evidence of appropriately separated ancestral lineage
  • demonstrate sound anti-banjo tendancies (Duracell Bunny admits to owning a banjo - whilst we all make mistakes, that one will lead to her waking up in a detention centre one day soon without ever knowing why)
  • satisfy us that you do not live in your car, with your extended family
  • satisfy us that your first words were not "Attention K-Mart shoppers ... ..."
  • prove you don't take reading material to the toilet
  • prove you do not wake up each day dressed and ready for work
  • prove you don't think a padded bedhead = safe sex
  • prove you've never worn a tie with a flannelette shirt
  • prove you've never accepted an invitation written on a public toilet wall.
We'll fly a missing man format just for you at the next LA ride, in exchange for your undertaking to ride with us when next in paradise .. .. ..

go the blues!
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-11-26, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> In aus.bicycle on Mon, 27 Nov 2006 06:36:43 +1100
> bikesaint <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> drivers who see / are held up by Critical Mass get angry

>>
>> This view (or similar) expressed on this list and by the media can only
>> indicate that the proponent has not been on a Critical Mass ride. Yes,
>> the odd person gets upset, but the majority cheer and wave and do a
>> thumbs up - even during the Harbour Bridge ride last Friday. The

>
> Really?
>
> Then the people I saw didn't exist, and the ones who talked to me
> about it on the weekend didn't either?


Were they there? Did they see it? Or were they blaming the generally
slow traffic on something they saw on the news that night?

--
TimC
Your fault (core dumped)
 
T

TimC

Guest
On 2006-11-27, EuanB (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> Big Bear Wrote:
>> bikesaint wrote:
>>
>> > ***
>> > Please - the level of antagonism and ignorance I've seen on this list
>> > makes it unlikely I'll visit very often. It really would help for
>> > everyone to try and build understanding and communication rather than
>> > hostility, and to ensure that comments are informed.

>>
>> It is the caffee-lattee' crowd of wanna-bees. If you read carefully,
>> many spend more time with their **** on/in motorised transport.

>
> Just for clarity, the only reason I'm driving at the moment is 'cause
> I've got a broken leg. Normally I ride 300km a week, all of it
> commuting and most of it solo. And it's a double shot espresso please,
> milk just ruins the coffee :)


If you took the advice of a thread last year, you'd know how to ride
with a broken leg. :)

Oh and Terry, some of us CM supporters are café latté sipping lycra
clad wannabes, although one or more of us may be stuck on a bus more
often than not lately, given the weather of late. Oh how depressing
it is. But I have found a good source of lattés here now, at least.
Oh, and they are getting a liquor licence. Does this mean we are
going to have a proper bar by the end of the year, instead of having
to go visit the local bogan establishments?

--
TimC
"This thesis brought to you by the letter tau" -- TimC