Re: Helium Filled Tubes

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by [email protected], Jan 19, 2005.



  1. hhu

    hhu Guest

    It has been my experience that rotating the air in my tires every 500
    miles greatly enhances the ride. By rotating the air I don't mean
    letting air out and refilling the tires with fresh air. I mean
    specifically draining the air from a front tire into a tank (separate
    process for each tire), then drain the air from the corresponding rear
    tire, also into a tank, then refill the front tire from with the air
    from the rear tire and vice versa. I once tried moving the air from
    one side to the other instead of front to back and found the opposite
    effect- the handling became mushy and the tires started to squeal
    while cornering. The process can be skipped at the time when you
    rotate the tires.

    I thought this sort of silliness was exclusive to high-end audio
    newsgroups and forums...
     
  2. hhu wrote:
    > It has been my experience that rotating the air in my tires every 500
    > miles greatly enhances the ride. By rotating the air I don't mean
    > letting air out and refilling the tires with fresh air. I mean
    > specifically draining the air from a front tire into a tank (separate
    > process for each tire), then drain the air from the corresponding rear
    > tire, also into a tank, then refill the front tire from with the air
    > from the rear tire and vice versa. I once tried moving the air from
    > one side to the other instead of front to back and found the opposite
    > effect- the handling became mushy and the tires started to squeal
    > while cornering. The process can be skipped at the time when you
    > rotate the tires.
    >
    > I thought this sort of silliness was exclusive to high-end audio
    > newsgroups and forums...


    See also: http://sheldonbrown.com/carapace-2.html#newair

    Sheldon "Blowhard" Brown
    +-----------------------------------------------+
    | ...there is humour in all things and the |
    | truest philosophy is that which teaches |
    | us to find it and make the most of it. |
    | --W.S.Gilbert |
    +-----------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  3. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    hhu wrote:
    > It has been my experience that rotating the air in my tires every 500
    > miles greatly enhances the ride. By rotating the air I don't mean
    > letting air out and refilling the tires with fresh air. I mean
    > specifically draining the air from a front tire into a tank (separate
    > process for each tire), then drain the air from the corresponding rear
    > tire, also into a tank, then refill the front tire from with the air
    > from the rear tire and vice versa.


    This is extremely dangerous. While it's fine to put front air in a rear
    tire, one should NEVER, EVER put rear air in a front. The molecules develop
    a flat ion sphere in rear usage, and are quite unstable when subsequently
    used for... steerage. (Err, steering.)

    Always install "Frontaire"{@} <--- {that's a copyright thingy} in front
    tires, recycling used Frontaire in rear tires if no Rearaire{@} is available
    (or you're just cheap).

    Bill "learned this the hard way" S.
     
  4. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:46:46 -0500, Sheldon Brown
    <[email protected]> may have said:

    >hhu wrote:
    >> It has been my experience that rotating the air in my tires every 500
    >> miles greatly enhances the ride. By rotating the air I don't mean
    >> letting air out and refilling the tires with fresh air. I mean
    >> specifically draining the air from a front tire into a tank (separate
    >> process for each tire), then drain the air from the corresponding rear
    >> tire, also into a tank, then refill the front tire from with the air
    >> from the rear tire and vice versa. I once tried moving the air from
    >> one side to the other instead of front to back and found the opposite
    >> effect- the handling became mushy and the tires started to squeal
    >> while cornering. The process can be skipped at the time when you
    >> rotate the tires.
    >>
    >> I thought this sort of silliness was exclusive to high-end audio
    >> newsgroups and forums...

    >
    >See also: http://sheldonbrown.com/carapace-2.html#newair


    One should also be aware of the need to winterize tires with air
    appropriate for the season, though it can be neglected if the bike
    will only be used on a trainer during the cold months.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  5. RonSonic

    RonSonic Guest

    On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:58:53 -0500, John Dacey <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:20:32 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >
    >>You'd think that it has something to do with the size of the
    >>molecules, but it doesn't.
    >>
    >>The reason that pure N2 (78% in air) is preferred in tires
    >>is that it isn't as soluble in rubber as the O2 (21% in air)
    >>and much less soluble than CO2 (0.3% in air, but 100% in
    >>quick-inflate cartridges).

    >
    >Are there any gasses whose thermal expansion rates would make them
    >less likely than air to cause bicycle tire blowoffs on steep descents?


    Expansion of the gas is trivial. The moisture in the air that gets pumped in is
    a complete other thing.

    I don't know that it is actually an issue, but there is no dry clean gas (within
    the range of things we might actually try) that will expand as much as humid
    air does.

    Ron
     
  6. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:55:25 GMT, "Bill Sornson"
    <[email protected]> may have said:

    >hhu wrote:
    >> It has been my experience that rotating the air in my tires every 500
    >> miles greatly enhances the ride. By rotating the air I don't mean
    >> letting air out and refilling the tires with fresh air. I mean
    >> specifically draining the air from a front tire into a tank (separate
    >> process for each tire), then drain the air from the corresponding rear
    >> tire, also into a tank, then refill the front tire from with the air
    >> from the rear tire and vice versa.

    >
    >This is extremely dangerous. While it's fine to put front air in a rear
    >tire, one should NEVER, EVER put rear air in a front. The molecules develop
    >a flat ion sphere in rear usage, and are quite unstable when subsequently
    >used for... steerage. (Err, steering.)
    >
    >Always install "Frontaire"{@} <--- {that's a copyright thingy} in front
    >tires, recycling used Frontaire in rear tires if no Rearaire{@} is available
    >(or you're just cheap).


    They have specialized premium versions for Road and MTB as well, and
    there's a rumor that a special type that's optimized for use in
    tubulars will be introduced.

    [wondering how far this nonsense can be carried...]



    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  7. Leo Lichtman

    Leo Lichtman Guest

    Does anyone know whether letting this used air out when a tire is deflated
    is hazardous? I have been allowing it to mix with other air, and then
    breathing it. What is my responsibility to my neighbors--should I warn them
    when I am going to release air. Where can I get some of those tanks like
    HHU uses for rotating his air. I am thinking about stockpiling my used air
    until a safe method of disposal can be found. Perhaps it can be compressed,
    encased in concrete and buried.
     
  8. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    hhu wrote:
    > It has been my experience that rotating the air in my tires every 500
    > miles greatly enhances the ride. By rotating the air I don't mean
    > letting air out and refilling the tires with fresh air. I mean
    > specifically draining the air from a front tire into a tank (separate
    > process for each tire), then drain the air from the corresponding rear
    > tire, also into a tank, then refill the front tire from with the air
    > from the rear tire and vice versa. I once tried moving the air from
    > one side to the other instead of front to back and found the opposite
    > effect- the handling became mushy and the tires started to squeal
    > while cornering. The process can be skipped at the time when you
    > rotate the tires.
    >
    > I thought this sort of silliness was exclusive to high-end audio
    > newsgroups and forums...


    OK, now I gotta tell a story I was told years ago, by a friend Max who
    claimed to be an eyewitness. (I know, sounds like an urban legend, but
    bear with me).

    Young guy gets his first (used) car. Several guy "friends", wanting to
    have a little fun, advise as follows:

    "Look, that car is, what, about 4 years old? The air in the tires has
    gone stale by now, and the tires are starting to rot. What you need to
    do is take it to the tire shop and have the air replaced with fresh.
    Now ya gotta know that this isn't just letting the tire pressure down
    and pumping up again. To do this right you gotta squeeze all the old
    air out first - so you pretty much have to put the car up on a lift."

    "Now when you get to the tire store, they're gonna tell you it's not
    necessary, they're gonna tell you the whole thing is crazy, they're
    gonna tell you all sorts of things, 'cause there's no profit in the job,
    so they don't wanna bother. So you gotta insist that they put the car
    up on the lift and do the job right, or you're gonna get tire rot, sure
    as I'm standing here."

    "Now remember, they won't want to do this, and they're gonna give you a
    whole load of bull about how you don't need to, and how they never do it
    and they're fine, and on and on, but **don't you listen** to them. You
    **demand** that they squeeze the air outta those tires,"

    .... and the punchline ...

    "... and DON'T TAKE 'NO' for an answer!"

    Max and I laughed away many miles of the Santa Barbara Century that year
    imagining this guy at the tire store. Don't know if he ever actually went.

    Thanks, Max, wherever you are.

    Mark Janeba
     
  9. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    Leo Lichtman wrote:
    > Does anyone know whether letting this used air out when a tire is
    > deflated is hazardous? I have been allowing it to mix with other
    > air, and then breathing it. What is my responsibility to my
    > neighbors--should I warn them when I am going to release air. Where
    > can I get some of those tanks like HHU uses for rotating his air. I
    > am thinking about stockpiling my used air until a safe method of
    > disposal can be found. Perhaps it can be compressed, encased in
    > concrete and buried.


    You should have hooked up to your car's AC compressor.

    At this point you should move AND change your name, before the EPA catches
    up to you.

    Good luck Leo----err, BOB.
     
  10. For the rear tire, I use specially bottled air from Wisconsin. It's
    called Dairy-Air.
     
  11. meb

    meb New Member

    Joined:
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    The 18g & 14g savings over air were for He before Andrew's observation that the thread was not in the rh column of the periodic table.
     
  12. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Brian Huntley wrote:

    > For the rear tire, I use specially bottled air from Wisconsin. It's
    > called Dairy-Air.


    It appears that Andrew Muzi sells this special bottled Wisconsin air:
    <http://www.yellowjersey.org/bholstei.jpg>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
     
  13. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > Brian Huntley wrote:
    >> For the rear tire, I use specially bottled air from Wisconsin. It's
    >> called Dairy-Air.


    Tom Sherman wrote:
    > It appears that Andrew Muzi sells this special bottled Wisconsin air:
    > <http://www.yellowjersey.org/bholstei.jpg>.


    As you may recall, Jay and Donna DeNovo head up the Couples
    On Wheels (COWS), who host and annual Dary Air ride here.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  14. A Muzi wrote:
    > > Brian Huntley wrote:
    > >> For the rear tire, I use specially bottled air from Wisconsin.

    It's
    > >> called Dairy-Air.

    >
    > Tom Sherman wrote:
    > > It appears that Andrew Muzi sells this special bottled Wisconsin

    air:
    > > <http://www.yellowjersey.org/bholstei.jpg>.

    >
    > As you may recall, Jay and Donna DeNovo head up the Couples
    > On Wheels (COWS), who host and annual Dary Air ride here.
    > --
    > Andrew Muzi
    > www.yellowjersey.org
    > Open every day since 1 April, 1971


    Dear Andrew (and all other contributers to this thread),

    I only skimmed through the seventy-odd preceding messages, but several
    put me in mind of some remarks written, I believe, by Hilaire Belloc in
    response to an unsolicited manuscript. I certainly can't quote it
    exactly, but the gist is:

    "Dear Whomever,
    I am currently seated in the smallest room in the house with your
    manuscript in front of me. Very shortly it will be behind me."

    Giving the matter much more thought than it deserves, I came to three
    unremarkable conclusions:
    1. A lot of people are perfectly happy/proud to display their extreme
    ingorance in public.
    2. A similarly large crowd is finding that time really drags in the
    winter.
    3. The thread is a clear demonstration of a law that was known long
    before messers Boyle, Avagadro et al breathed any of the gasses they
    later studied: the volume of gas generated is inversely proportional to
    the weight (or importance) of the topic that provokes it. In other
    words, V = F(1/W), where F is a constant known as the flatulence
    factor.

    My solutions:
    1. Abandon the snowblower and get shoveling or
    2. Buy some entertaining videos or DVDs to watch while you are on your
    rollers/trainers.

    To lead by example, I'm off to the basement right now.

    Nigel Grinter
    Spokesperson
    Well-Spoken Wheels Inc.
    (www.wellspokenwheels.com)
     
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