Re: Helmet Poll: First Hand Experience

Sorni said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

The number of cyclists has risen
dramatically in this area over the past 3-4 years,
and almost everyone
uses a helmet. Go figure!

Quoted message said:

It's marketing. They're Lance Armstrong wannabes.

So getting lots of new people* into cycling is a bad thing?

I couldn't care what they wear, but if they are the sort of people who
hoot at you and tell you to get off the road, as the drive past with
their bikes on the back heading for a 'cycle trail' then I am not sure
they are not adding to the problem.

What is needed is more people using bikes for the everyday short
transport trip rather than for special dress up in fancy clothes and
ride a $$$$$ bike in a sporting activity. Cycling needs to be seen as
an everyday normal activity, not as a specialised recreation.

...d

41 said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

jtaylor wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Would this have anything to do with the fact that you
>> deliberately excluded instances where the result would have been
>> negative?
>
> Do you mean the "I wasn't wearing a helmet and I didn't hit my
> head, but if I had been wearing a helmet, I would ha ve hit my
> head" claptrap?
>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do you call instances like those "claptrap"?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you denying that they occur?

Okay, your turn: tell everyone how you would determine that while you
didn't hit your head while not wearing a helmet, you know you would
have hit your head, in the same incident, if you were wearing a
helmet. And, please, be precise.

I already did just that in earlier threads. I described a high speed,
hard fall where I did not hit my head at all, but where the mark on
the top of my shoulder (which I still have, almost two years later)
proves that I hit the pavement almost exactly adjacent to my skull.
Had I been wearing a helmet, which projects out what- you tell me how
much, anything would have been enough- from the surface of my skull,
I would have suffered an impact, and at a bad angle which would have
swung my head around like a tether ball. No thanks.

<AOL>
I have also done that.
--
Ambrose

David Martin said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Richard said:

Ozark Bicycle wrote:

>I have no vested interest in a helmet
>debate.

Yet you claim to run a bike repair business. Promotion of helmets leads
to reduced numbers cycling, which leads to reduced business for you.
So, unless you are completely disinterested in the viability or
otherwise of your business, I suggest you do in fact have a vested
interest. I just find it peculiar as to why you should wish to run
your own business into the ground by promoting helmets.

What kinda weed you been smoking, Gunga Din? IMO, helmets are
inexpensive (unless one is a sucker),

but non free

Quoted message said:

unobtrusive

Hardly - helmet hair, sweat, heatstroke, somewhere to put the
*&*&^&^$%£$%^*ing thing when you get to your destination.

Quoted message said:

and offer a positive,
if small, degree of added protection.

Not according to whole population studies they don't.

Quoted message said:

The number of cyclists has risen
dramatically in this area over the past 3-4 years, and almost everyone
uses a helmet. Go figure!

And how many are utility cyclists or are they just follwoing the latest
sporting trends for recreation?
How many kids cycle to school or the shops?
The utility cyclists are the ones hit hardest by helmet overpromotion.
It makes little odds if you are already getting changed to go cycling,
a helmet is part of the dressing up routine. Bit different if you are
just wanting to nip down to the shops, or go out for the evening, where
'special clothing' is not really the done thing, just get on and go.

In the sport culture, helmets are part of the uniform. In utility
cycling, they are an inconvenience.

..d

Just like getting into a car and putting on your seat belt, and sitting
behind the colapsable steering wheel with the airbags, and the crumple
zone.
Is it really THAT hard?

"Friday" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the sport culture, helmets are part of the uniform. In utility
cycling, they are an inconvenience.

Just like getting into a car and putting on your seat belt, and sitting
behind the colapsable steering wheel with the airbags, and the crumple
zone.
Is it really THAT hard?

Yes. When I get into my car, the seatbelt is there. I can put it on while
waiting for other bits of the car to start. When I arrive at my destination,
the seatbelt stays inside the car.

When I go somewhere by bike, putting a helmet on is extra inconvenience,
riding with it is not as nice as without, and storing it while at my
destination is a problem.

You haven't really thought this through, have you?

clive

Friday said:

Just like getting into a car and putting on your seat belt, and sitting
behind the colapsable steering wheel with the airbags, and the crumple
zone.

No it isn't: driving a car has all the power come from the car and the
extra weight is a non-issue. Because I only have to make small upper
body movements the restrictions of a seatbelt are minimal.
OTOH cycling on a hot, humid day with a polystyrene box on my head is a
major drag.
I /can/ do it, I did every cycling trip for over a decade before I
started reading the research. Now I don't, and I'm a lot more
comfortable and less inconvenienced as a result.

Beyond which there is no really good evidence it actually does anything
worth my while, unlike a seat belt (and that's before we get into risk
compensation territory).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Clive George said:

"Friday" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the sport culture, helmets are part of the uniform. In utility
cycling, they are an inconvenience.

Just like getting into a car and putting on your seat belt, and
sitting behind the colapsable steering wheel with the airbags, and
the crumple zone.
Is it really THAT hard?

Yes. When I get into my car, the seatbelt is there. I can put it on
while waiting for other bits of the car to start. When I arrive at my
destination, the seatbelt stays inside the car.

When I go somewhere by bike, putting a helmet on is extra
inconvenience, riding with it is not as nice as without, and storing
it while at my destination is a problem.

You haven't really thought this through, have you?

Shoelaces are a real pain in the ass, too. Most people have learned to
adapt to and accept it. Others just wear flipflops with their tuxedos.

PRETTY SOON THERE MIGHT BE MANDATORY SHOELACE LAWS! THIS MUST BE STOPPED!

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> In the sport culture, helmets are part of the uniform. In utility
> cycling, they are an inconvenience.

Just like getting into a car and putting on your seat belt, and
sitting behind the colapsable steering wheel with the airbags, and
the crumple zone.
Is it really THAT hard?

Yes. When I get into my car, the seatbelt is there. I can put it on
while waiting for other bits of the car to start. When I arrive at my
destination, the seatbelt stays inside the car.

When I go somewhere by bike, putting a helmet on is extra
inconvenience, riding with it is not as nice as without, and storing
it while at my destination is a problem.

You haven't really thought this through, have you?

Shoelaces are a real pain in the ass, too. Most people have learned to
adapt to and accept it. Others just wear flipflops with their tuxedos.

PRETTY SOON THERE MIGHT BE MANDATORY SHOELACE LAWS! THIS MUST BE STOPPED!

Y'know, this really isn't helping your argument one bit. Would a fair
summary of your position be that you think helmets are a good thing, and
can't be bothered to look any further than that?

clive

Clive George said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> In the sport culture, helmets are part of the uniform. In utility
>> cycling, they are an inconvenience.
>
> Just like getting into a car and putting on your seat belt, and
> sitting behind the colapsable steering wheel with the airbags, and
> the crumple zone.
> Is it really THAT hard?

Yes. When I get into my car, the seatbelt is there. I can put it on
while waiting for other bits of the car to start. When I arrive at
my destination, the seatbelt stays inside the car.

When I go somewhere by bike, putting a helmet on is extra
inconvenience, riding with it is not as nice as without, and storing
it while at my destination is a problem.

You haven't really thought this through, have you?

Shoelaces are a real pain in the ass, too. Most people have learned
to adapt to and accept it. Others just wear flipflops with their
tuxedos. PRETTY SOON THERE MIGHT BE MANDATORY SHOELACE LAWS! THIS MUST
BE
STOPPED!

Y'know, this really isn't helping your argument one bit.

Neither is whining that a helmet is inconvenient helping yours.

Quoted message said:

Would a fair
summary of your position be that you think helmets are a good thing,
and can't be bothered to look any further than that?

For the type of cycling that I do, yes I think wearing a helmet is a smart
thing to do. Sorry you find that so objectionable.

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>>> In the sport culture, helmets are part of the uniform. In utility
>>> cycling, they are an inconvenience.
>>
>> Just like getting into a car and putting on your seat belt, and
>> sitting behind the colapsable steering wheel with the airbags, and
>> the crumple zone.
>> Is it really THAT hard?
>
> Yes. When I get into my car, the seatbelt is there. I can put it on
> while waiting for other bits of the car to start. When I arrive at
> my destination, the seatbelt stays inside the car.
>
> When I go somewhere by bike, putting a helmet on is extra
> inconvenience, riding with it is not as nice as without, and storing
> it while at my destination is a problem.
>
> You haven't really thought this through, have you?

Shoelaces are a real pain in the ass, too. Most people have learned
to adapt to and accept it. Others just wear flipflops with their
tuxedos. PRETTY SOON THERE MIGHT BE MANDATORY SHOELACE LAWS! THIS MUST
BE
STOPPED!

Y'know, this really isn't helping your argument one bit.

Neither is whining that a helmet is inconvenient helping yours.

Not whining. It's a very important part of my argument. Inconvenience and
comfort are the primary reasons I don't wear one.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would a fair
summary of your position be that you think helmets are a good thing,
and can't be bothered to look any further than that?

For the type of cycling that I do, yes I think wearing a helmet is a smart
thing to do. Sorry you find that so objectionable.

Do you want to answer the other part of my question?

clive

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For the type of cycling that I do, yes I think wearing a helmet is a smart
thing to do.

Why?

jtaylor said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For the type of cycling that I do, yes I think wearing a helmet is a
smart thing to do.

Why?

Because it brings out the gold flecks in my eyes.

Sorni said:

jtaylor said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For the type of cycling that I do, yes I think wearing a helmet is a
smart thing to do.

Why?

Because it brings out the gold flecks in my eyes.

And all the population studies prove gold flecks lower risk and
increase safety. ;-)

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jtaylor said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For the type of cycling that I do, yes I think wearing a helmet is a
smart thing to do.

Why?

Because it brings out the gold flecks in my eyes.

So, not for any reason related to safety.

Ozark,

you haven't voted in the "new helmet poll" thread. Any particular reason
why not?

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorni said:

jtaylor said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> For the type of cycling that I do, yes I think wearing a helmet is a
> smart thing to do.

Why?

Because it brings out the gold flecks in my eyes.

And all the population studies prove gold flecks lower risk and
increase safety. ;-)

Burt said:

Ozark,

you haven't voted in the "new helmet poll" thread. Any particular reason
why not?

Probably because you only posted it to urc and Ozark is reading rbt.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"There is a wicked pretense that one has been informed. But no
such thing has truly occurred! A mere slogan, an empty litany.
No arguments are heard, no evidence is weighed. It isn't news at
all, only a source of amusement for idlers." (Gibson-Sterling,
The Difference Engine)

Burt said:

Ozark,

you haven't voted in the "new helmet poll" thread. Any particular reason
why not?

"New helmet poll"? Do you mean this one, or something else?

Don Whybrow said:

Burt said:

Ozark,

you haven't voted in the "new helmet poll" thread. Any particular reason
why not?

Probably because you only posted it to urc and Ozark is reading rbt.

--

Ya think?

Clive George said:

"Friday" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[about wearing helmet] Is it really THAT hard?

Yes. When I get into my car, the seatbelt is there. I can put it on while
waiting for other bits of the car to start. When I arrive at my destination,
the seatbelt stays inside the car.

When I go somewhere by bike, putting a helmet on is extra inconvenience,
riding with it is not as nice as without, and storing it while at my
destination is a problem.

Plus if you ride vigorously and sweat it needs to be cleaned. I
finally started using multiple helmets (not all at once) so I have a
clean one ready.

But it's not *very* hard to deal with -- just an inconvenience. So I
look at the helment proponents this way: if they say "I use one
whenever I can because it might help and it's not so hard for me" I
think "Cool."

But if they say "I always where one" or "I never ride without one" I
think "Theyre an idiot." Seriously. If you can't conceive of a
situation where you might ride without one (forgot helmet, it's very
dirty, etc) you've got a problem. If you wouldn't get on your bike
because you don't have a helmet with you, you've got a problem.

JT

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41 said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Quoted message said:

> Okay, your turn: tell everyone how you would determine that while you
> didn't hit your head while not wearing a helmet, you know you would
> have hit your head, in the same incident, if you were wearing a helmet.
> And, please, be precise.

IOW, you can not provide an example, can you? You are pulling this
stuff out of your ass.

I told you and provided exactly this precise example, but you chose to
ignore it.

There was nothing to comment on. All sorts of strange [censored] happens in
accidents : sounds like you were lucky because you didnt have a helment
- thank your lucky stars! In the same way that the woman who reversed
into the harbour was glad that she didnt have her seatbelt on. Doesnt
really alter the general truth though.

Thankfully laws arent made based on statistical anomalies.

Hadron Quark said:

There was nothing to comment on. All sorts of strange [censored] happens in
accidents : sounds like you were lucky because you didnt have a helment
- thank your lucky stars! In the same way that the woman who reversed
into the harbour was glad that she didnt have her seatbelt on. Doesnt
really alter the general truth though.

While it is generally accepted that in A Given Crash in a car you're on
balance much better off in a seatbelt, there's no such degree of
consensus concerning cycle helmets.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/