Re: help the obese: snigger

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    the 2PD-OMER Approach:

    http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

    Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
    this thread here during the next on-line chat (12/08/05):

    http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

    For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for
    how the LORD has reshaped me:

    http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

    In Christ's love always,

    Andrew
    http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk

    fresh~horses wrote:
    > Help the obese: snigger
    > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-1892406,00.html
    > fairuse
    >
    > Christopher Hart
    > The NHS in east Suffolk has announced that it will no longer perform
    > hip or knee replacements on people classed as "obese". Never mind
    > that the definition it uses for obesity - a body mass index of 30 or
    > higher - is increasingly discredited, and that a much more reliable
    > way of measuring healthy weight is waist-to-hip ratio. (It should be
    > 0.9 or less in men, and 0.85 or less in women; you can check it on
    > www.healthstatus.com/calculate/whr ).
    >
    > A greater objection to this denial of treatment to fatties on account
    > of their self-inflicted fatness is: where on earth do you stop?
    >
    > Should NHS dental treatment be denied to women who eat too much
    > chocolate? Should the hugely expensive course of anti-retroviral drugs
    > for HIV be denied to promiscuous homosexuals, or sex tourists recently
    > returned from Pattaya Beach? For that matter, what about women who have
    > dieted rather than gluttonised all their lives, neglecting their
    > calcium intake and so risking osteoporosis in later life?
    >
    > Fatties surely have just as much right to be treated on the NHS as
    > smokers, binge drinkers, or any other taxpayers. Instead of threatening
    > plump people's already threatened health by denying them treatment,
    > how about giving them the new bits they need, while encouraging them to
    > lose weight with a little gentle, old-fashioned mockery?
    >
    > Fatties should of course be free to squeeze out of the closet, their
    > XXXL T-shirts emblazoned with such legends as "Fat and Happy!"
    > "Out, Stout and Proud!" and so forth. What they cannot demand, I
    > think, is the right to be free from teasing, either in the playground
    > or in later life. There is and always will be something innately funny
    > about fat people. They wobble so much, for one thing.
    >
    > I was once stranded for 24 hours in Houston, self- proclaimed Fat
    > Capital of the World, and I have never seen so many enormously fat
    > people in my life, nor felt such a juvenile but well-nigh irrepressible
    > urge to laugh out loud. The reason they are all so fat is that they
    > drive everywhere, and stuff themselves from dawn till long after dusk
    > with double choc-chip deep fried spicy pepperoni monster pizzas topped
    > with extra cheddar-style cheese, and gallon bargain-buckets of buffalo
    > wings on the side. This is not a dignified way to behave.
    >
    > But laughing at fatties is no longer encouraged in the Land of the Fat
    > and Home of the Brave. Take their National Association to Advance Fat
    > Acceptance. Members recently staged a demonstration in New York,
    > dressed in grass hula skirts, tiaras and flamingo headbands, throwing
    > beach balls around and dancing the "hokey-pokey fat liberation"
    > song. They then solemnly stepped onto scales modified with supportive
    > words like "stunning", "pretty" and "beautiful" instead of
    > numbers. This is not going to help their condition any more than the
    > mean-spirited health services in east Suffolk.
    >
    > Obesity is well on the way to becoming the No 1 cause of death in the
    > developed world, which in itself is no joke. In a few decades' time
    > everywhere will look like Houston, or worse still, the Freedom Paradise
    > resort in Mexico, which boasts reinforced beds, double-width doors, and
    > dining chairs 26in wide but without arms in case they get stuck to
    > diners' wider-than-26in bottoms when they stand up.
    >
    > Cindy Sabo, spokeswoman for the National Association to Advance Fat
    > Acceptance, has given Freedom Paradise her seal of approval. Placing
    > herself in the "oversize" category at around 400lb, Sabo recalls
    > "some terrible experiences with some other tourists" on a recent
    > holiday in Hawaii. "Especially some people from Asian countries would
    > walk right up to you on the beach, poke you in the belly and make some
    > rude joke." What a marvellous image: a crowd of lean little Chinese
    > people gathered around an enormous American woman, poking and prodding
    > her delightedly while she lies there in the Hawaiian sand, huffing and
    > puffing with a self-righteous indignation quite lost on them.
    >
    > Being overweight is hardly the greatest sin one can commit, pace the
    > doctors and consultants of east Suffolk. But that doesn't mean
    > obesity is an entirely neutral "lifestyle option" either. It
    > isn't a cardinal or mortal sin, but a venal one. But obesity does
    > betray self-indulgence, a lack of self-control and a habit of mostly
    > solitary greed.
    >
    > Despite the protests of fatties that it's their metabolism that is
    > responsible, or their genes, we all know that those among our friends
    > who incline to porkiness are almost always the ones who chomp their way
    > through an entire packet of Chocolate HobNobs when the rest of us make
    > do with one or two.
    >
    > A certain mockery, a certain hearty Chaucerian laughter at human
    > weakness and venality, can have a beneficial purpose; although, like
    > shame, it is a social mechanism rather out of fashion. It might not
    > only provoke merriment, but also suggest to its "victims" that
    > perhaps they ought to consider their ways and be wise; or in modern
    > parlance, review their lifestyle choices.
    >
    > Laughing at fat people might be the first step on the road to them
    > losing weight. And then those sternly Calvinistic medical men of east
    > Suffolk might not have to bother about fitting them with new knees
    > anyway.
     
    Tags:


  2. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > the 2PD-OMER Approach:


    Unfortunately, the "approach" has never been shown to work in any published
    study. Basically, there is no good scientific evidence to show that it works
    or is safe. In addition, the "approach" does not include exercise. So,
    because there is no good evidence that it is safe or effective and doesn't
    include exercise, which has been shown to be very beneficial, I could never
    recommend this "approach."

    If I am incorrect about there be no published clinical trials of this
    "approach," please provide the links to the peer-reviewed article.

    Jeff
     
  3. Budd Cochran

    Budd Cochran Guest

    Jeff,

    I've lost close to 50 pounds ( no, I did not use the 2lb plan!) and due
    to physical limitations, without "exercise", just diet.

    But I do all the things I can, like, fishing, working on the yard in
    slow 5 minute batches, working on a classic 50's Cushman scooter in
    slow 5 minute batches, etc.

    The point? The word "exercise" for some might be a scary thing.

    For example, to me it envisions Army Basic Training ( 20 mile runs in
    full pack, calesthenics) or gym class ( wind sprints, calesthenics).
    OTOH, I can spend hours walking a rocky shoreline in pursuit of a 4
    pound German Brown or a 3 pound Largemouth, or battling a rusty 1/2"
    bolt on a scooter transmission till one of us gives up.

    Please, folks, don't think you need to go jogging for exercise, just do
    something you enjoy that burns calories as fast as YOU can handle it.

    As always, YMMV

    Budd
     
  4. O'Hush

    O'Hush Guest

    "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > the 2PD-OMER Approach:
    >
    > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp


    I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense, calorie-rich
    foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky. Two pounds of almonds contain about
    5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two pounds
    of lettuce contain about 100 calories.

    You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without study
    or even thoughtful examination. Then I realized that I was taught well
    enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior semester of
    nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician. But
    then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?

    Your friend in Christ,

    --Patti
     
  5. O'Hush wrote:
    > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > > the 2PD-OMER Approach:
    > >
    > > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

    >
    > I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense, calorie-rich
    > foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky. Two pounds of almonds contain about
    > 5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two pounds
    > of lettuce contain about 100 calories.
    >
    > You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without study
    > or even thoughtful examination. Then I realized that I was taught well
    > enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior semester of
    > nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician. But
    > then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?
    >
    > Your friend in Christ,
    >
    > --Patti


    LOL
     
  6. [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > O'Hush wrote:
    > > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > > > the 2PD-OMER Approach:
    > > >
    > > > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

    > >
    > > I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense, calorie-rich
    > > foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky. Two pounds of almonds contain about
    > > 5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > > pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two pounds
    > > of lettuce contain about 100 calories.
    > >
    > > You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > > board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without study
    > > or even thoughtful examination. Then I realized that I was taught well
    > > enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior semester of
    > > nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician. But
    > > then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > > board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > > simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?
    > >
    > > Your friend in Christ,
    > >
    > > --Patti

    >
    > LOL


    "Written laughter is silent despair."

    Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
    this thread here during the next on-line chat (12/08/05):

    http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

    For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
    the LORD has reshaped me:

    http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

    In Christ's love always,

    Andrew
    http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
     
  7. O'Hush wrote:
    >
    > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > > the 2PD-OMER Approach:
    > >
    > > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

    >
    > I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense, calorie-rich
    > foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky.


    They weren't. Their muscles and their appetite needed carbs.

    > Two pounds of almonds contain about
    > 5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two pounds
    > of lettuce contain about 100 calories.


    The efficiency with which the body will extract these calories will vary
    individually and from day to day so that the unreliable estimate of
    number of calories in the diet is actually meaningless.

    > You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without study
    > or even thoughtful examination.


    The 2PD-OMER Approach has been well-studied. Indeed, more than 625,550
    people (myself included) have had more than 5 years experience with it.
    All have lost weight safely without regain:

    http://www.heartmdphd.com/press.asp

    > Then I realized that I was taught well
    > enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior semester of
    > nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician.


    "When wickedness comes, so does contempt, and with shame comes
    disgrace." (Proverbs 18:3)

    > But
    > then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?


    "The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to
    the discerning." (Proverbs 14:6)

    > Your friend in Christ,


    That is not what I discern, dear Patti.

    Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
    this thread here during the next on-line chat (12/08/05):

    http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

    For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
    the LORD has reshaped me:

    http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

    In Christ's love always,

    Andrew
    http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
     
  8. Jeff wrote:
    >
    > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > > the 2PD-OMER Approach:


    > > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp


    > Unfortunately,


    No such thing as either fortunately or unfortunately:

    Proverbs 16:33

    > the "approach" has never been shown to work in any published
    > study.


    Nonetheless, it works.

    > Basically, there is no good scientific evidence to show that it works


    Actually, there is.

    > or is safe.


    More than 625,550 people (myself included) have had experience with it
    for more than 5 years. Just ran 12 miles yesterday and a half-marathon
    just a few weeks ago. Wouldn't have been able to do this if the
    2PD-OMER Approach were not safe.

    > In addition, the "approach" does not include exercise.


    Thankfully, it does not. If it did then not everyone would be able to
    use it to lose weight safely and permanently.

    > So,
    > because there is no good evidence that it is safe or effective and doesn't
    > include exercise, which has been shown to be very beneficial, I could never
    > recommend this "approach."


    Your unwise choice.

    > If I am incorrect about there be no published clinical trials of this
    > "approach," please provide the links to the peer-reviewed article.


    You remain unwise.

    "The teaching of the wise is a fountain of life, turning a man from the
    snares of death." (Proverbs 13:34)

    Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
    this thread here during the next on-line chat (12/08/05):

    http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

    For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
    the LORD has reshaped me:

    http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

    In Christ's love always,

    Andrew
    http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
     
  9. O'Hush

    O'Hush Guest

    "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > > I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense,

    calorie-rich
    > > foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky.

    >
    > They weren't. Their muscles and their appetite needed carbs.


    Trail mix contains nuts, seeds, dried fruit (e.g. pineapple, coconut,
    raisins), maybe a few chocolate chips, and sometimes some little
    flour-sesamie doodads and the like.

    > > Two pounds of almonds contain about
    > > 5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > > pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two

    pounds
    > > of lettuce contain about 100 calories.

    >
    > The efficiency with which the body will extract these calories will vary
    > individually and from day to day so that the unreliable estimate of
    > number of calories in the diet is actually meaningless.


    Only a person with no real medical education could make such an assertion.

    > > You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > > board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without

    study
    > > or even thoughtful examination.

    >
    > The 2PD-OMER Approach has been well-studied. Indeed, more than 625,550
    > people (myself included) have had more than 5 years experience with it.
    > All have lost weight safely without regain:


    Then by all means, let's see a link to a peer-reviewed study. Here's what
    Google Scholar has on it:
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=2pd-omer&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en

    > > Then I realized that I was taught well
    > > enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior

    semester of
    > > nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician.

    >
    > "When wickedness comes, so does contempt, and with shame comes
    > disgrace." (Proverbs 18:3)


    I agree wholeheartedly, if by "wickedness" you mean pretending to be a
    doctor on the internet, and giving out false medical advice to folks who
    don't know any better.

    > > But
    > > then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > > board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > > simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?

    >
    > "The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to
    > the discerning." (Proverbs 14:6)
    >
    > > Your friend in Christ,

    >
    > That is not what I discern, dear Patti.


    You discern correctly. I was indeed mocking you.
     
  10. O'Hush

    O'Hush Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > O'Hush wrote:
    > > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > > > the 2PD-OMER Approach:
    > > >
    > > > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

    > >
    > > I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense,

    calorie-rich
    > > foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky. Two pounds of almonds contain

    about
    > > 5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > > pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two

    pounds
    > > of lettuce contain about 100 calories.
    > >
    > > You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > > board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without

    study
    > > or even thoughtful examination. Then I realized that I was taught well
    > > enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior

    semester of
    > > nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician.

    But
    > > then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > > board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > > simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?
    > >
    > > Your friend in Christ,
    > >
    > > --Patti

    >
    > LOL


    :) It's a cat-free diet, of course.
     
  11. O'Hush wrote:
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > O'Hush wrote:
    > > > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]
    > > > > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > > > > the 2PD-OMER Approach:
    > > > >
    > > > > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
    > > >
    > > > I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense,

    > calorie-rich
    > > > foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky. Two pounds of almonds contain

    > about
    > > > 5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > > > pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two

    > pounds
    > > > of lettuce contain about 100 calories.
    > > >
    > > > You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > > > board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without

    > study
    > > > or even thoughtful examination. Then I realized that I was taught well
    > > > enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior

    > semester of
    > > > nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician.

    > But
    > > > then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > > > board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > > > simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?
    > > >
    > > > Your friend in Christ,
    > > >
    > > > --Patti

    > >
    > > LOL

    >
    > :) It's a cat-free diet, of course.


    Our dog has an overly simplistic weight loss plan for couches, throw
    pillows and we recently discovered (yuck) the cat's litter box.
    Unfortunately, this isn't a cat (poop) free diet.... :-(
     
  12. O'Hush wrote:
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > O'Hush wrote:
    > > > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]
    > > > > Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    > > > > the 2PD-OMER Approach:
    > > > >
    > > > > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
    > > >
    > > > I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense,

    > calorie-rich
    > > > foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky. Two pounds of almonds contain

    > about
    > > > 5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > > > pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two

    > pounds
    > > > of lettuce contain about 100 calories.
    > > >
    > > > You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > > > board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without

    > study
    > > > or even thoughtful examination. Then I realized that I was taught well
    > > > enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior

    > semester of
    > > > nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician.

    > But
    > > > then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > > > board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > > > simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?
    > > >
    > > > Your friend in Christ,
    > > >
    > > > --Patti

    > >
    > > LOL

    >
    > :) It's a cat-free diet, of course.


    Our dog has an overly simplistic weight loss plan for couches, throw
    pillows and we recently discovered (yuck) the cat's litter box.
    Unfortunately, this isn't a cat (poop) free diet.... :-(
     
  13. O'Hush wrote:
    >
    > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    > > > I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense,

    > calorie-rich
    > > > foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky.

    > >
    > > They weren't. Their muscles and their appetite needed carbs.

    >
    > Trail mix contains nuts, seeds, dried fruit (e.g. pineapple, coconut,
    > raisins), maybe a few chocolate chips, and sometimes some little
    > flour-sesamie doodads and the like.


    They ate what they liked within the 10 pounds they were able to carry
    per week.

    > > > Two pounds of almonds contain about
    > > > 5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > > > pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two

    > pounds
    > > > of lettuce contain about 100 calories.

    > >
    > > The efficiency with which the body will extract these calories will vary
    > > individually and from day to day so that the unreliable estimate of
    > > number of calories in the diet is actually meaningless.

    >
    > Only a person with no real medical education could make such an assertion.


    It remains my choice to continue to write truthfully. Sorry that
    bothers you. Please forgive me for my iniquities.

    > > > You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > > > board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without

    > study
    > > > or even thoughtful examination.

    > >
    > > The 2PD-OMER Approach has been well-studied. Indeed, more than 625,550
    > > people (myself included) have had more than 5 years experience with it.
    > > All have lost weight safely without regain:

    >
    > > http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/press.asp


    >
    > Then by all means, let's see a link to a peer-reviewed study.


    You will have to wait. Sorry.

    > Here's what
    > Google Scholar has on it:
    > http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=2pd-omer&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en


    They will have to wait, too.

    > > > Then I realized that I was taught well
    > > > enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior

    > semester of
    > > > nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician.

    > >
    > > "When wickedness comes, so does contempt, and with shame comes
    > > disgrace." (Proverbs 18:3)

    >
    > I agree wholeheartedly, if by "wickedness" you mean pretending to be a
    > doctor on the internet,


    No. Bearing false witness is wickedness.

    > and giving out false medical advice to folks who
    > don't know any better.


    More false witness.

    "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he (or she) who pours out
    lies will perish." (Proverbs 19:9)

    > > > But
    > > > then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > > > board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > > > simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?

    > >
    > > "The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to
    > > the discerning." (Proverbs 14:6)
    > >
    > > > Your friend in Christ,

    > >
    > > That is not what I discern, dear Patti.

    >
    > You discern correctly. I was indeed mocking you.


    "Penalties are prepared for mockers, and beatings for the backs of
    fools." (Proverbs 19:29)

    Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
    this thread here during the next on-line chat (12/08/05):

    http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

    For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
    the LORD has reshaped me:

    http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

    In Christ's love always,

    Andrew
    http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
     
  14. "Bob (this one)" wrote:
    >
    > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    > > O'Hush wrote:
    > >
    > >>"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >>news:[email protected]
    > >>
    > >>>>I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense, calorie-rich
    > >>>>foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky.
    > >>>
    > >>>They weren't. Their muscles and their appetite needed carbs.

    >
    > This is Chung's recollection from an IMAX movie. When real Everest
    > climbers posted their experiences, they categorically disagreed with
    > Chung's assertion.


    In truth, you are not a real Everest climber.

    > Beyond that, virtually all the foods they carried
    > after gorging themselves in base camps, were dehydrated.


    In truth, nuts contain very little water.

    > The normal,
    > average rehydration rate is typically 4 to 1. That is, it takes 4 times
    > the amount of liquid to rehydrate the foods. That would bring it to the
    > equivalent of 40 pounds of fresh food for that week.


    In truth, the fuel required to melt 30 pounds of snow would be
    prohibitive.

    > >>Trail mix contains nuts, seeds, dried fruit (e.g. pineapple, coconut,
    > >>raisins), maybe a few chocolate chips, and sometimes some little
    > >>flour-sesamie doodads and the like.

    > >
    > > They ate what they liked within the 10 pounds they were able to carry
    > > per week.

    >
    > After rehydrating it to 40 pounds. Except this "able to carry" business
    > isn't true either. They have camps set up along the climb paths that are
    > stocked with provisions.


    Not according to the feedback I have received.

    > >>>>Two pounds of almonds contain about
    > >>>>5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    > >>>>pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two pounds
    > >>>>of lettuce contain about 100 calories.
    > >>>
    > >>>The efficiency with which the body will extract these calories will vary
    > >>>individually and from day to day so that the unreliable estimate of
    > >>>number of calories in the diet is actually meaningless.
    > >>
    > >>Only a person with no real medical education could make such an assertion.

    >
    > Chung once was a real doctor,


    Still am.

    > but after his "near-death" experience, and
    > since the onset of his OCD Scrupulosity and the hyperreligiosity that
    > grew out of it, any science he once understood has flown out the window.


    "A truthful witness does not deceive, but a false witness pours out
    lies." (Proverbs 14:5)

    > For him, the bible is the final arbiter (in his fevered interpretations)
    > for all questions.


    In truth, the LORD is the final arbiter of all things.

    > Never mind logic.


    "Logic is the white cane of the undiscerning."

    > He says "truth trumps logic."


    It does.

    > Never
    > mind statistics.


    Truth trumps that too,

    > Never mind comparative studies. Never mind the
    > scientific method. Chung is stuck on what he says is "absolute truth."


    The truth remains absolute.

    > He struggles mightily to fit everything into the bible on the assumption
    > that it is absolutely infallible and hte absolute word of God.


    There is no struggle for those who are guided by the LORD.

    > So he
    > says there's no evolution (never mind the clear science).


    "Those who have been called to cook are not qualified to discuss
    science."

    > That there was
    > a universal flood (and he says that there's evidence for it and that
    > he's given it - he hasn't), that all modern humans descended from a
    > single "Eve" (while conveniently ignoring changes in mitochondrial DNA).


    "Those who have been called to cook are not qualified to discuss
    science."

    > > It remains my choice to continue to write truthfully. Sorry that
    > > bothers you. Please forgive me for my iniquities.

    >
    > He says this relentlessly.


    Truth seems relentless to the untruthful.

    > He claims to write truthfully in the same
    > posts where his deceits are detailed. And that phony "sorry" and request
    > for forgiveness have become new mantras.


    "Wisdom reposes in the heart of the discerning and even among fools she
    lets herself be known." (Proverbs 14:33)

    > >>>>You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    > >>>>board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without study
    > >>>>or even thoughtful examination.
    > >>>
    > >>>The 2PD-OMER Approach has been well-studied. Indeed, more than 625,550
    > >>>people (myself included) have had more than 5 years experience with it.
    > >>>All have lost weight safely without regain:
    > >>>http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/press.asp

    >
    > <LOL>


    "Written laughter is silent despair."

    > Chung is citing the wanderers in the desert for his "test
    > subjects."


    It would be your choice to keep guessing.

    > Never mind that he has had to struggle very hard to find one
    > erroneous, single source that says an omer is a unit of weight.


    The LORD is not erroneous nor is He hard to find for the discerning.

    "The LORD abhors dishonest scales, but accurate weights are His
    delight." (Proverbs 11:1)

    > He makes
    > the further assumption that they ate nothing else; the bible contradicts
    > that position.


    "Remember how the LORD your GOD led you all the way in the desert these
    forty years ... causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna...
    to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word
    that comes from the mouth of the LORD." (Deuteronomy 8:2-3)

    No contradiction here. There were a few instances of quail but it is
    clear especially with these verses in Deuteronomy that this was not ever
    regular fare.

    > All in all, his "625,500" are figments of his stunted,
    > self-excusing imagination.


    Actually, there have been more than 625,550 people with more than 5
    years experience with the 2PD-OMER Approach.

    > And he considers the bible as a "study."


    False witness.

    > >>>http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/press.asp

    > >
    > >>Then by all means, let's see a link to a peer-reviewed study.

    > >
    > > You will have to wait. Sorry.

    >
    > He has said that about lots of things he asserts but can't produce
    > evidence for.


    Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Your recently being provided
    a third party reference that affirms that indeed the omer literally
    means a certain weight measure despite all your protestations to the
    contrary should serve well to caution folks from following the wide
    meandering path that you have chosen, dear Bob.

    > The name of a restaurant that serves $5 lobster and
    > shrimp.


    ....will be given at a time that the LORD will determine. His timing
    remains impeccable. Without the LORD, you will continue to despair,
    dear Bob. It remains my wish that you will someday choose to repent so
    that you can receive His peace and joy.

    > The URL for archived chats from his self-aggrandizing web site
    > that he claims is "authored" by someone else, amazingly, with the same
    > overblown writing style as Chung.


    That you would confuse me with the author is more flattering than you
    could possibly know.

    "A lying tongue hates those it hurts, and a flattering mouth works
    ruin." (Proverbs 26:28)


    > >>Here's what
    > >>Google Scholar has on it:
    > >>http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=2pd-omer&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en

    > >
    > > They will have to wait, too.

    >
    > <LOL> This indicates that I found this statement funny. Chung says it
    > indicates despair. He quotes himself in saying that, and goes so far as
    > to put quotes around it. That's truly zany.


    "Even in laughter the heart may ache, and joy may end in grief."
    (Proverbs 14:13)

    > >>>>Then I realized that I was taught well
    > >>>>enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior semester of
    > >>>>nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician.
    > >>>
    > >>>"When wickedness comes, so does contempt, and with shame comes
    > >>>disgrace." (Proverbs 18:3)

    >
    > This is Chung's newest ploy.


    The LORD continues to guide me in all that I say, do, and write. He
    makes everything new.

    > To post non sequiturs in quotation marks
    > when he's overwhelmed by logic, fact, substance or unarguable truth.


    "Death and destruction lie open before the LORD - how much more the
    hearts of men!" (Proverbs 15:12)

    > Rather than offer (impossible) dispute, he quotes the bible as a weapon
    > against you.


    Truth injures the untruthful.

    > If you've really smacked him, he top-posts in the fervent
    > hope that people won't look down to see where his ass has been
    > thoroughly kicked. Again.


    "The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool
    gushes folly." (Proverbs 15:2)

    > >>I agree wholeheartedly, if by "wickedness" you mean pretending to be a
    > >>doctor on the internet,

    > >
    > > No. Bearing false witness is wickedness.

    >
    > Chung has lately been calling everyone liars this way. He says he
    > doesn't judge people, but the recognition of a lie calls for a
    > conclusion, except in his frantic world.


    Observing sin is not the same as judging the sinner.

    > He calls his judgements
    > "observations" as though they require no mentation.


    Observing requires no mentation just as seeing requires no mentation.

    "The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to
    the discerning."

    > >>and giving out false medical advice to folks who
    > >>don't know any better.

    > >
    > > More false witness.

    >
    > Sorry. This is an unfortunate truth. In the sense of "lamentable."
    > Promoting the 2pound diet is bad medical advice.


    In truth, promotion is not advice.

    > When that word "unfortunate" appears, he leaps in to say there's no such
    > thing as fortune. And what he means is that God determines everything
    > that happens.


    In truth, the LORD does determine everything that happens.

    > So no coincidence in his Heisenberg-absent universe.


    Without the LORD, there is only uncertainty (ala Heisenberg).

    > He
    > also maintains that we have free will even though God makes every single
    > event happen.


    The LORD is omnipotent while we are not. Truth is simple.

    > That contradiction escapes him.


    It seems you believe that the powerless have had their free wills taken
    from them and so you openly rebel against the LORD in hopes of having
    the power to save yourself. Know this:

    "When a wicked man dies, his hope perishes; all he expected from his
    power comes to nothing." (Proverbs 11:7)

    > > "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he (or she) who pours out
    > > lies will perish." (Proverbs 19:9)

    >
    > Chung likes to threaten people this way.


    Truth threatens the untruthful.

    > That way he can say he "loves"
    > you even though you've run afoul of God's laws and will suffer eternal
    > damnation in flames with your skin bursting open and your natural juices
    > sizzling in the brimstone, screaming in raw agony for eternity. And he
    > means that in the nicest possible way.


    "A mocker resents correction; he will not consult the wise." (Proverbs
    15:12)

    > And he says that God is about love.


    John 3:16

    > >>>> But
    > >>>>then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    > >>>>board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    > >>>>simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?
    > >>>
    > >>>"The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to
    > >>>the discerning." (Proverbs 14:6)

    >
    > He says he has a supernatural capacity for "discernment" which he
    > interprets as getting knowledge with no mechanism. No sensory input. No
    > reasoning. No rational processes. No judgements. When he "discerns"
    > anything, it just growed like Topsy. And it's infallible. He is never
    > wrong or off-the-mark when he "discerns" things. He assumes.


    "A discerning man keeps wisdom in view, but a fool's eyes wander to the
    ends of the earth." (Proverbs 17:24)

    > >>>>Your friend in Christ,
    > >>>
    > >>>That is not what I discern, dear Patti.
    > >>
    > >>You discern correctly. I was indeed mocking you.

    > >
    > > "Penalties are prepared for mockers, and beatings for the backs of
    > > fools." (Proverbs 19:29)

    >
    > It's a wonder how Chung, the ostensible healer, takes such chortling
    > delight in the pain and punishments he foresees for all those who he
    > decides are somehow acting out.


    "Do not fret because of evil men or be envious of the wicked, for the
    evil man has no future hope, and the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed
    out." (Proverbs 24:19-20)

    > It's also very interesting that he
    > doesn't see his own actions as anything but perfect because they are
    > guided in every detail by God, he says.


    Guidance from the LORD is perfect though we fall short of His glory.

    > > Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    > > like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition

    >
    > Sure. Let's talk about nutrition. Chung says it's irrelevant when
    > dieting, just confine your intake to 2 pounds of anything customary for
    > you. He also says that 2 pounds of whatever you've been eating is what
    > you should do for the rest of your life. No matter what you do, how big
    > you are, how old you are. Hey, let's all gather round while Chung talks
    > about nutrition. Ask him how many calories are in a pound of bread. Or
    > how many calories one expends in running 5 miles.


    In truth, until there are practical means of reliably measuring
    calories, this unit of measure is meaningless.

    "Differing weights and differing measures - the LORD detests them both."
    (Proverbs 20:10)

    Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
    this thread here during the next on-line chat (12/08/05):

    http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

    For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
    the LORD has reshaped me:

    http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

    In Christ's love always,

    Andrew
    http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
     
  15. Touched by His Noodly Appendage wrote:
    >
    > May I suggest a fMRI?


    You have the free will that the LORD has generously given you.

    > Soon?


    In truth, you made the suggestion when you asked the question.

    Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
    this thread here during the next on-line chat (12/08/05):

    http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

    For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
    the LORD has reshaped me:

    http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

    In Christ's love always,

    Andrew
    http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
     
  16. O'Hush

    O'Hush Guest

    "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > "Penalties are prepared for mockers, and beatings for the backs of
    > fools." (Proverbs 19:29)


    Okay, whatever. My cat says he remembers you from medical school. He says
    you owe him 30 bucks. Plonking you now.

    --Patti
     
  17. O'Hush wrote:
    >
    > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    > > "Penalties are prepared for mockers, and beatings for the backs of
    > > fools." (Proverbs 19:29)

    >
    > Okay, whatever.


    It would be your choice to turn your back on the truth.

    > My cat says he remembers you from medical school. He says
    > you owe him 30 bucks.


    If you truly are hearing voices emanating from your cat, it would be
    wise for you to inform your doctor.

    > Plonking you now.


    You have the free will that the LORD has given you.

    > --Patti


    You will remain in my prayers, dear Patti whom I love, in Christ's holy
    name.

    May you reject your pride and accept Him as your personal Lord and
    Savior, someday, so that you too will have eternal life and the
    fascinating riches of His everlasting kingdom.

    Here's how:

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

    Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is
    the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which
    is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments, the 2
    arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the
    Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the
    2PD-OMER Approach. Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make
    His presence known here on Usenet :)

    Also, note that Exodus 16:16 continues to remind us that 16 oz plus 16
    oz makes 2 pounds, which is "a certain measure of weight," which is what
    "omer" literally means in Hebrew.

    Enter the 2PD-OMER Approach, which can "cure" metabolic syndrome (MetS)
    thereby bringing this thread back on topic for these NGs :)

    http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

    http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/press.asp

    You may hear me speak about the 2PD-OMER Approach in person and meet
    others who have been using this WOE here:

    http://www.TheHealthFair.com

    You may also choose to have me speak to your group or organization about
    the 2PD-OMER Approach in person for the usual and customary speaker's
    fee of US$30,000.00 made as a tax-deductible contribution to
    TheWellnessFoundation.com (it remains my choice to not profit personally
    from the 2PD-OMER Approach):

    http://www.TheWellnessFoundation.com

    Would be more than happy to "glow" and chat about this and other things
    like cardiology, diabetes and nutrition that interest those following
    this thread here during the next on-line chat (12/08/05):

    http://tinyurl.com/cpayh

    For those who are put off by the signature, my advance apologies for how
    the LORD has reshaped me:

    http://tinyurl.com/bgfqt

    In Christ's love always,

    Andrew
    http://tinyurl.com/b6xwk
     
  18. Ma¢k

    Ma¢k Guest

    On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:55:11 GMT, "O'Hush" <[email protected]> Huffed and
    Puffed the following into the madness of usenet:

    >"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> Thankfully, all are able to lose the weight safely and permanently via
    >> the 2PD-OMER Approach:
    >>
    >> http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

    >
    >I'd assume your mountain climbers were consuming very dense, calorie-rich
    >foods like nuts, trail mix, and jerky. Two pounds of almonds contain about
    >5440 calories. Two pounds of raisins contain around 3000 calories. Two
    >pounds of jerky contain around 3700 calories. On the other hand, two pounds
    >of lettuce contain about 100 calories.
    >
    >You know, I was sort of wondering if you think every fart out of your
    >board-certified ass is worthy of inflicting on your patients without study
    >or even thoughtful examination. Then I realized that I was taught well
    >enough to know better than your 2pd omer crap in my first junior semester of
    >nursing school, and I realized you're probably not really a physician. But
    >then I was going through some old papers and I found out that my cat is
    >board-certified in orthopedic surgery, and he has developed an overly
    >simplistic weight loss plan for dogs! Who'd a thunk?
    >
    >Your friend in Christ,
    >
    >--Patti
    >


    no joke, suddenly I am tempted to consider becoming a christian.

    she's got moxie!


    --
    Mâck©®
    Type 1 since 1975
    http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
    http://www.diabetic-talk.org
    http://www.insulin-pumpers.org



    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
    President, or that we are to stand by the President
    right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
    but is morally treasonable to the American public."
    ....Theodore Roosevelt

    (o o)
    --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

    "I don't know half of you
    half as well as I should like;
    and I like less than half of you
    half as well as you deserve."



    Jesus never hated anyone.
     
  19. Tony P.

    Tony P. Guest

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