"pearl" <
[email protected]> wrote in message:
> 'What is a "Fruit"?
>
> From Webster's Dictionary comes the following definition
> of "fruit" which is inclusive of many constituents of green
> salad: A fruit is the reproductive product of a tree or other
> plant... the edible, succulent product, generally covering
> and including the seed... or mature ovary. Essentially, fruit
> is made of two parts: the pericarp or edible flesh, and the
> seed portion itself. Notice from this botanical definition of
> fruit when considering our fruitarian character, this does
> not mean exclusively sweet fruits. To enjoy an energetic,
> youthful, disease-free life, eat a varied diet predominantly
> of foods you are biologically adapted to: raw fresh fruits,
> vegetables, nuts, seeds, sprouted grains, and perhaps
> occasional legumes and tubers.
> ..'
> http://www.iol.ie/~creature/BiologicalAdaptations.htm
-----------------------------
Alright then, obviously you wish to use references and the botanical
definition of fruit from the article on your website - fine. So lets look a
little deeper into some specific vegetable foods. In the "What is a
Vegetable?" section on your website it states:
"Vegetables are classified into four main categories: 1. FRUIT-BEARING
VARIETY: These are commonly referred to as "vegetables" but are actually
non-sweet fruits, including tomatoes, squashes, peppers, cucumbers,
pumpkins, and eggplant."
So Pearl, if you included such "vegetable fruits" as these in a fruitarian
diet, it could still be considered a fruitarian diet. (They obviously fit
into the Webster's Dictionary definition of fruit which you provided above.)
The article goes on with the other categories:
"2. GREEN VEGETABLES: Include the leafy greens, all non starchy vegetables,
sprouts, and all cruciferous family vegetables such as broccoli,
cauliflower, brussel sprouts, cabbage and zucchini."
3. BULBS TUBERS AND ROOTS: Includes underground vegetables such as carrots,
beets, potatoes, yams, turnips, parsnips, rutabagas, etc. Also included in
this category are mildly toxic, sharp tasting vegetables such as garlic,
onions, scallions, leeks and radishes.
4. FUNGI: These include mushrooms, algae and seaweed vegetables."
These vegetables are NOT included in section #1 above, and so they are not
botanically considered to be fruits (or "vegetable fruits"). Do you ever
eat any of the kinds of vegetables in section 1-4, Pearl? If so, then
according to your website you are not eating a fruitarian diet. You do eat
leafy greens, don't you?
>> >> > fruit, and perhaps
>> >
>> > Perhaps?
>>
>> Yes, "perhaps" - it depends on the type of fruitarian you wish to be.
>> Fruitarians who are purists eat only fruits, and no nuts, seeds or
>> vegetables (meaning the "vegetable fruits" - cucumbers, sweet peppers,
>> etc,
>> in particular).
>
> We're talking about a frugivorous diet. See definition above.
---------------------
Yes, it's clear now that you wish to go by the botanical definition(s) in
the article on your website. But just for the record, there are fruitarians
who advocate a strict fruit only diet. For example Rejean Durette who wrote
the book "Fruit: The Ultimate Diet" states:
"A Fruitarian is someone who eats predominantly fruit and ideally 100%.
"Fruits" include all tree fruits, all berries, watermelons, vine fruits like
kiwis and grapes and vegetable-fruits like tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers.
Fruitarians living in tropical environments would consume coconuts although
coconuts are often thought of as a nut. Some Fruitarians will consume nuts
and vegetables to a certain extent, although these rarely would be consumed
in any great amount by a Fruitarian, however we promote a true fruitarian
diet, 100% fruit with no nuts and no vegetables or greens."
http://www.fruitarianvibes.com/Fruitarian_Facts.htm
And in contrast, just to show the variety of opinion here's a fruitarian
website that promotes the optimum fruitarian diet as consisting of - "all
the usual fruits you know, but we also think of avocado, cucumbers,
tomatoes, paprika, olives and squash as fruits. (They are actually
vegetable-fruits)." They consider the next best fruitarian diet to be one
that also "sometimes" includes nuts and seeds:
http://hem.fyristorg.com/fruitarian/whatEat.html
>> >> > nuts, seeds, and maybe
>> >
>> > Maybe?
>>
>> Yes "maybe". Some fruitarians eat fruits, nuts and seeds, but no
>> vegetables
>> (meaning not even the "vegetable fruits") at all. They don't consider
>> them
>> to really be fruits.
>
> If that is true, then they err greatly.
-----------------------
"There are different variations of fruitarianism. Some fruitarians will eat
only what falls (or would fall) naturally from a plant-fruits, seeds and
nuts. Others may eat all biological fruits. The former argue that the
slippery slope of what 'would' fall from the plant leads to including foods
that would otherwise be taboo. Grains are usually disallowed, as they are
conventionally harvested by cutting down the plant."
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Fruitarianism
and, from The American Heritage Dictionary;
fruit·ar·i·an:
"One whose diet includes fruits, seeds, and nuts but no vegetables, grains,
or animal products."
http://www.bartleby.com/61/44/F0344400.html
>> >> > some
>> >> > vegetables. And no animal products,
>> >
>> >> > grains, legumes,
>> >
>> > None, why? And leafy greens?
>>
>> Because grains and legumes aren't fruits, and so aren't part of a
>> fruitarian
>> diet. Including grains and legumes makes it more of a vegan diet, not
>> fruitarian.
>
> 'Fruit Types: Description
> ..
> The legume also develops from a single carpel with one locule,
> but it differs by splitting along both sides of the fruit to shed its
> seeds. Legumes are typically found in the huge bean family.
> Examples include green bean, navy bean, pea, redbud, honey
> locust, and black locust. The legumes are incredibly numerous
> and important members of tropical rain forest ecosystems.
> ..
> Another small, one-seeded fruit is the caryopsis or grain.
> The difference between the achene and the caryopsis is that
> during development in the grain, the seed coat fuses to the fruit
> wall, so it gives the appearance of the fruit lacking a locule!
> ..
> http://koning.ecsu.ctstateu.edu/plants_human/fruittype.html
---------------------------
True, grains and legumes according to the botanical definition can be
considered "fruits", and some who consider themselves to be fruitarians eat
them. But I'm sorry, I just can't consider a peanut-butter sandwich to be a
fruitarian food. You can see from the references I provided above that
fruitarians generally don't consider grains to be fruitarian foods, and even
the article on your own website doesn't put them in the same category as the
other fruits as far as human diet goes. For example, in the "Scientific
Nutrition vs. Commercial Nutrition" section on your website it says (my
emphasis on the references to grains):
"The first question in forming a scientific, rather than commercial approach
to human nutrition is this: Of what biological disposition is the human
organism? What is our natural food? Are we true carnivores who secure their
nutrient needs not only from raw flesh, but also from raw blood, bones,
gristle, and offal from the fresh raw kill? Are we true herbivores (grazers)
who thrive on lettuce, grasses, *raw grains*, celery, etc., as do horses,
cows and sheep? Are we granivores like birds who thrive mostly on raw seeds
of grasses and *grains*? Are we natural omnivores who *thrive* in health
regardless of the foodstuffs consumed? Or are we frugivores who can thrive
on a diet of raw fresh bananas, grapes, apples, oranges, or melons meal
after meal?"
Here your own website clearly implies that we are NOT "true herbivores
(grazers) who thrive on lettuce, grasses, *raw grains*, celery, etc" or
"granivores like birds who thrive mostly on raw seeds of grasses and
*grains*". That section is saying that we are actually "frugivores who can
thrive on a diet of raw fresh bananas, grapes, apples, oranges, or melons
meal after meal." Yes, this section from your own website seems quite
clearly to be advocating a strict fruit only diet, like Rejean Durette whom
I mentioned above, and certainly not grains.
Besides, you say that humans are frugivores. Our modern grains were
cultivated by humans over the past 10,000 years or so with the development
of agriculture. Do you think our ancient ancestors millions of years ago
were eating any appreciable amount of raw wild grains when they were hanging
around the forests evolving? Our close primate cousins the chimps don't
seem to have anything like grains in their natural diets, from what I've
read. Perhaps you should eliminate grains from your "fruitarian" diet, they
may be quite unnatural and foreign to the diet humans originally evolved on,
you may well be much better off without them. Legumes too perhaps, for the
same reasons. Your own website doesn't put legumes in the same category as
the other fruits, and says that the suggested diet can contain "perhaps
occasional legumes...."
>> Leafy greens aren't fruits, either.
>
> 'GREEN VEGETABLES: Include the leafy greens, all
> non starchy vegetables, sprouts, and all cruciferous family
> vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts,
> cabbage and zucchini. [..]
> The bulk of our diet should consist of raw fresh fruits,
> vegetables, nuts, seeds, sprouted whole grains, legumes
> and tubers for three main reasons: This prevents overeating
> concentrated foods that otherwise may lead to constipation;
> This insures an abundance of vitamins and minerals from
> raw, fresh produce; It provides the needed bulk, necessary
> for normal elimination. Practically all animals in nature
> consume green foliage of some type. Even the carnivore,
> at times, consumes large amounts of vegetation. Plants are
> high-fiber, high-water content foods. The low-fiber,
> low-water content meat based diet of the carnivore
> requires plant food to keep the colon cleansed, since flesh
> is naturally constipating. Green leafy plants are eaten to a
> lesser or greater extent throughout nature. Whatever else
> an animal eats relative to its specific adaptations, some
> green leafy food is invariably needed in the diet.
> ..'
> http://www.iol.ie/~creature/BiologicalAdaptations.htm
------------------------------
Like I said above, leafy greens aren't fruits, either. I don't see anything
there saying that leafy greens, or the other mentioned vegetables like
cabbage, tubers, etc., are actually fruits. If you include those kinds of
vegetables in your diet, by the botanical definition on your website it
won't be a frugivorous diet. You say that humans are fugivores, meaning of
course that our ancient ancestors must have evolved on a frugivorous diet.
But leafy greens are not fruits (by the definition on your website), so they
must not have been included in our ancient ancestor's diet. Yet the article
on your website states (above) - "Green leafy plants are eaten to a lesser
or greater extent throughout nature. Whatever else an animal eats relative
to its specific adaptations, some green leafy food is invariably needed in
the diet." So what's up with this contradiction between you and the article
on your website?
>> But if someone ate a diet
>> of fruits, nuts and seeds, "vegetable fruits" and leafy greens, I would
>> still call that a fruitarian diet. But the more purist fruitarian types
>> would disagree, I'm sure.
>
> Thought we were talking about a frugivorous diet?
-----------------------
Ah, I now know that you are one of the more purist fruitarian types I
referred to above. I respect your perfectionism! Your website has
convinced me to now tighten up my definition of fruitarian, so I'm taking
out the leafy greens. I was allowing some "wiggle room" in my definition,
but no more. From now on I'll consider a fruitarian diet to be only fruits,
nuts and seeds, and the "vegetable fruits". But I refuse to add grains in,
because, as your website implores: "Are we true herbivores (grazers) who
thrive on lettuce, grasses, *raw grains*, celery, etc., as do horses, cows
and sheep?" Of course we aren't! So no grains.
>> > No wonder it didn't work out (if it all wasn't a tall tale).
>>
>> Whatever. This isn't about me, anyway. It's about you and why you
>> insist
>> that humans are frugivores when you aren't even eating a frugivorous diet
>> yourself.
>
> I am. See above.
------------------------
You most certainly are not! You consume goat's milk and eggs. NO
fruitarian uses those foods. Not to mention any of the vegetables that are
mentioned on your website which are not "vegetable fruits" that you may be
consuming. You seemed to imply earlier that you eat leafy greens. Leafy
greens don't fall under the botanical definition of fruit on your website,
so they can't be included in a fruitarian diet.
And if you use grains, don't forget your own website asks - "Are we
granivores like birds who thrive mostly on raw seeds of grasses and
*grains*?" The point is - of course we aren't, so you should consider
dropping grains (and maybe even raw seeds) from your diet. That is if you
wish to abide by what your website says there, and right after that where it
clearly implies that we are "frugivores who can thrive on a diet of raw
fresh bananas, grapes, apples, oranges, or melons meal after meal". No
grains mentioned there....
>> > Suggest a read of this;
>> > http://www.iol.ie/~creature/BiologicalAdaptations.htm .
>>
>> I've seen that before. But again, this isn't about me and what I
>> believe.
>> It's about you and why you insist that humans are frugivores when you
>> aren't
>> even eating a frugivorous diet yourself.
>
> You may have "seen" it, but you sure haven't read it.
Are you sure about that?
> On your bike.
Off your animal products and leafy greens (for starters). If you want to
really be a fruitarian, that is.
-erpt
