Re: Killer Squirrel attack



On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:28:04 -0700 (PDT), Dan O <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.


You could have said it before too - facts are never inappropriate!
 
"Dan O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo

>>

>
> Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
>


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?
 
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] may
have said:

>On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo

>
>Dear Mike,
>
>Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
>detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Carl Fogel


When will people learn that if you're going to ride squirrel dicer
wheels, you need to sharpen the spokes properly?

--
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Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
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On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dan O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo

>
> > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.

>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
> pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
> hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
> downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?


You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?

Why couldn't the wheel continue to spin? And even if you did get...
um, an especially stout squirrel in the spokes, somehow managing to
lock the wheel, wouldn't that just pitch you over the bars instead of
smack into the ground?
 
Werehatrack wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] may
> have said:
>
>> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo

>> Dear Mike,
>>
>> Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
>> detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel

>
> When will people learn that if you're going to ride squirrel dicer
> wheels, you need to sharpen the spokes properly?
>


Or, just get squirrel inhibitor(tm) wheels! With their closely-spaced
spokes, there isn't enough space for squirrels to get lodged! Low
spoke-count wheels such as these Mavic Krysiums seem designed to catch
squirrels and fling them up against the fork. Hmmm...wonder when some
sleazy lawyer will figure out that his new niche lies in suing
manufacturers of squirrel-catcher wheels when these crashes happen?

Cal
 
On Jun 20, 6:47 am, Me <[email protected]> wrote:

Hmmm...wonder when some
> sleazy lawyer will figure out that ...


.... while Insurance Companies will require us to ride TT- like,
squirrel repellent, dish wheels.

Sergio
Pisa
 
In article
<e374a2d9-81ca-4258-9e0a-466cb0df5cc1@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Dan O <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Dan O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:

> >
> > >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo

> >
> > > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.

> >
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
> > pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
> > hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
> > downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?

>
> You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
> forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
> like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?


Well, even I believe it's very likely the squirrel-body would have given
out first, but it would have been a rapid deceleration nonetheless.

Also, never underestimate the utter randomness of bike crashes. At
tonight's criterium race, two of my teammates collided and ended up
landing on the ground, off the side of the course, about two feet from
each other. One went home with a band-aid or two. The other went to the
hospital with a probable broken collarbone and collapsed lung. His bike
had a slightly bent rear rim and a big gash in the saddle.

> Why couldn't the wheel continue to spin? And even if you did get...
> um, an especially stout squirrel in the spokes, somehow managing to
> lock the wheel, wouldn't that just pitch you over the bars instead of
> smack into the ground?


Again, it depends. I think your instinct that the big mass in this
equation (to wit, the rider) would sorta want to not change its course
in space, it would definitely be influenced by the sudden stoppage of
the front wheel. Of more concern than the question of whether the rider
would be plunged into the ground head-first at a speed exceeding that
provided by the influence of gravity, would be that the rider would be
launched horizontally forward off the bike but quite possibly spinning,
meaning more random potential for injury.

A fork breaking always bad, but so is getting a squirrel stuck between
your spokes and your fork,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
 
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:11:12 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article
><e374a2d9-81ca-4258-9e0a-466cb0df5cc1@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> Dan O <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > "Dan O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> > >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo
>> >
>> > > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
>> >
>> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
>> > pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
>> > hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
>> > downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?

>>
>> You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
>> forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
>> like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?

>
>Well, even I believe it's very likely the squirrel-body would have given
>out first, but it would have been a rapid deceleration nonetheless.


True, but I can't see any argument that the fork breaking has any
chance of decreasing your injuries.

>Also, never underestimate the utter randomness of bike crashes. At
>tonight's criterium race, two of my teammates collided and ended up
>landing on the ground, off the side of the course, about two feet from
>each other. One went home with a band-aid or two. The other went to the
>hospital with a probable broken collarbone and collapsed lung. His bike
>had a slightly bent rear rim and a big gash in the saddle.


Again, the disposable CF fork can only increase the danger - even if
injuries incurred are somewhat random in assignment.

<snip>
 
"Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Werehatrack wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] may
> > have said:
> >
> >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>

http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo
> >> Dear Mike,
> >>
> >> Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
> >> detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel

> >
> > When will people learn that if you're going to ride squirrel dicer
> > wheels, you need to sharpen the spokes properly?
> >

>
> Or, just get squirrel inhibitor(tm) wheels! With their closely-spaced
> spokes, there isn't enough space for squirrels to get lodged! Low
> spoke-count wheels such as these Mavic Krysiums seem designed to catch
> squirrels and fling them up against the fork. Hmmm...wonder when some
> sleazy lawyer will figure out that his new niche lies in suing
> manufacturers of squirrel-catcher wheels when these crashes happen?
>
> Cal


It's all related to the carbon fiber composite fork and low spoke count
wheel fad.

A properly laced 48 spoke wheel with a strong steel fork would just
decapitate the little suckers and the rider could continue on his way with
nary a sensation that anything happened.

Chas.
 
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:42:48 -0700 (PDT), sergio
<[email protected]> may have said:

>On Jun 20, 6:47 am, Me <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hmmm...wonder when some
>> sleazy lawyer will figure out that ...

>
>... while Insurance Companies will require us to ride TT- like,
>squirrel repellent, dish wheels.


Naaah, they'll just make the event organizers deploy effective
squirrel-control methods...which will, of course, be available only
from a company that's owned by the cousin of the insurance company's
CEO.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:rcousine-6CB576.01110920062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> In article
> <e374a2d9-81ca-4258-9e0a-466cb0df5cc1@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> Dan O <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > "Dan O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> > >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo
>> >
>> > > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
>> >
>> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat
>> > reduce
>> > pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the
>> > fork
>> > hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
>> > downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?

>>
>> You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
>> forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
>> like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?

>
> Well, even I believe it's very likely the squirrel-body would have given
> out first, but it would have been a rapid deceleration nonetheless.
>
> Also, never underestimate the utter randomness of bike crashes. At
> tonight's criterium race, two of my teammates collided and ended up
> landing on the ground, off the side of the course, about two feet from
> each other. One went home with a band-aid or two. The other went to the
> hospital with a probable broken collarbone and collapsed lung. His bike
> had a slightly bent rear rim and a big gash in the saddle.
>
>> Why couldn't the wheel continue to spin? And even if you did get...
>> um, an especially stout squirrel in the spokes, somehow managing to
>> lock the wheel, wouldn't that just pitch you over the bars instead of
>> smack into the ground?

>
> Again, it depends. I think your instinct that the big mass in this
> equation (to wit, the rider) would sorta want to not change its course
> in space, it would definitely be influenced by the sudden stoppage of
> the front wheel. Of more concern than the question of whether the rider
> would be plunged into the ground head-first at a speed exceeding that
> provided by the influence of gravity, would be that the rider would be
> launched horizontally forward off the bike but quite possibly spinning,
> meaning more random potential for injury.
>
> A fork breaking always bad, but so is getting a squirrel stuck between
> your spokes and your fork,
>


First and foremost, I would agree with you Ryan that there is a great
randomness to degree of injuries in crashes.

That said, I was simply trying to ascertain if there would be any benefit to
breakaway parts, somewhat akin to designed-in crumple zones on cars. Could
injury generally be lessened if a breakaway part was engineered so that you
could have more of a sliding impact rather than a direct impact? As Ryan
suggests, degree of injury for similar impacts seem random enough to make
this a pointless exercise, plus the litigious liability of breakaway parts
would probably be astronomical.

Dan, I don't know if you are acquainted with the rider who crashed or not,
but I'm sorry you took my post as something other than I intended.
 
On Jun 20, 8:32 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

> That said, I was simply trying to ascertain if there would be any benefit to
> breakaway parts, somewhat akin to designed-in crumple zones on cars. Could
> injury generally be lessened if a breakaway part was engineered so that you
> could have more of a sliding impact rather than a direct impact?


Perhaps something made of sacrificial foam, wrapped around one's
head...
 
In article
<rcousine-6CB576.01110920062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article
> <e374a2d9-81ca-4258-9e0a-466cb0df5cc1@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> Dan O <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > "Dan O" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > > >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo
> > >
> > > > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
> > >
> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
> > > pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
> > > hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
> > > downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?

> >
> > You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
> > forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
> > like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?

>
> Well, even I believe it's very likely the squirrel-body would have given
> out first, but it would have been a rapid deceleration nonetheless.
>
> Also, never underestimate the utter randomness of bike crashes. At
> tonight's criterium race, two of my teammates collided and ended up
> landing on the ground, off the side of the course, about two feet from
> each other. One went home with a band-aid or two. The other went to the
> hospital with a probable broken collarbone and collapsed lung. His bike
> had a slightly bent rear rim and a big gash in the saddle.


Rule 1: Always land on top of the other guy.

--
Michael Press
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Me <[email protected]> wrote:

> Werehatrack wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] may
> > have said:
> >
> >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo
> >> Dear Mike,
> >>
> >> Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
> >> detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel

> >
> > When will people learn that if you're going to ride squirrel dicer
> > wheels, you need to sharpen the spokes properly?
> >

>
> Or, just get squirrel inhibitor(tm) wheels! With their closely-spaced
> spokes, there isn't enough space for squirrels to get lodged! Low
> spoke-count wheels such as these Mavic Krysiums seem designed to catch
> squirrels and fling them up against the fork. Hmmm...wonder when some
> sleazy lawyer will figure out that his new niche lies in suing
> manufacturers of squirrel-catcher wheels when these crashes happen?


Squirrels are quick. Remember that the spokes going to the
contact patch are moving very slowly. A squirrel can see that.

--
Michael Press
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:42:48 -0700 (PDT), sergio
> <[email protected]> may have said:
>
> >On Jun 20, 6:47 am, Me <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm...wonder when some
> >> sleazy lawyer will figure out that ...

> >
> >... while Insurance Companies will require us to ride TT- like,
> >squirrel repellent, dish wheels.

>
> Naaah, they'll just make the event organizers deploy effective
> squirrel-control methods...which will, of course, be available only
> from a company that's owned by the cousin of the insurance company's


20 gauge and a hamper of bird shot.

--
Michael Press
 
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:54:26 -0600, Werehatrack
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Squirrels around here are too fat to get past the spokes . . .


[snip]

Dear Werehatrack,

Naturally, I googled for fat squirrels.

This one is ready for a hard winter:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/spanishdancer/fat_squirrel.jpg

Beer drinkers are an imaginative lot:
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/590/9900

There'll always be an England:
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7008945211

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:45:10 -0700, Michael Press <[email protected]>
may have said:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Me <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Werehatrack wrote:
>> > On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] may
>> > have said:
>> >
>> >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>> http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo
>> >> Dear Mike,
>> >>
>> >> Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
>> >> detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> Carl Fogel
>> >
>> > When will people learn that if you're going to ride squirrel dicer
>> > wheels, you need to sharpen the spokes properly?
>> >

>>
>> Or, just get squirrel inhibitor(tm) wheels! With their closely-spaced
>> spokes, there isn't enough space for squirrels to get lodged! Low
>> spoke-count wheels such as these Mavic Krysiums seem designed to catch
>> squirrels and fling them up against the fork. Hmmm...wonder when some
>> sleazy lawyer will figure out that his new niche lies in suing
>> manufacturers of squirrel-catcher wheels when these crashes happen?

>
>Squirrels are quick. Remember that the spokes going to the
>contact patch are moving very slowly. A squirrel can see that.


Squirrels around here are too fat to get past the spokes of a 36-spoke
wheel; I've had a few dash out towards me, but they've mostly turned
aside when they got a look at my old-school 36-spoke wheels. One
bounced off the spokes, hit my leg and did some aerobatics before
running off in a different direction.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.