Re: Knee problems, conflicting diagnosis, MRI



X

Xchequer

Guest
<quoted text>

I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It was
so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I had
Osteoarthritis. After two years of not doing anything I forced myself to
start riding to work. Seven miles each way, paying close attention to not
strain my knees. It's now been two years since I started an my knees are
doing much better. I feel like I could run but I'll stick to cycling.

Maybe you need some more rest? Can your doctor give you a cortizone shot?
If that doesn't work for a while I'd say you have more problems. This is
based on other joint pains I've had.

Xchequer
 
Xchequer wrote:
> <quoted text>
>
> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It was
> so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I had
> Osteoarthritis.


Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium?
Try Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach
problems but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.

After two years of not doing anything I forced myself to
> start riding to work. Seven miles each way, paying close attention to not
> strain my knees. It's now been two years since I started an my knees are
> doing much better. I feel like I could run but I'll stick to cycling.


Cycling is definitely the way to protect your knees. Running in the true
sense is low impact since you are landing on the balls of your feet and
not your heels like joggers seem to excel at, then complain of shin
splints, or some runners club problem. Maybe mix in some fast walking at
lunch time and break time?
>
> Maybe you need some more rest? Can your doctor give you a cortizone shot?


EEEWWW, drugs. Cortisone, Prednisone, and all of those have some side
effects you probably don't want to know about. My mother had arthritis
and took those like her doctor told her and I think they did more harm
than good. Less drugs is better.

> If that doesn't work for a while I'd say you have more problems. This is
> based on other joint pains I've had.


It could be inherited, or and old injury just coming back to pay it's
respects.
>
> Xchequer


If any thing more starts to hurt, then it is doctor time.
Bill Baka
 
"Xchequer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
> <quoted text>
>
> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It was
> so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I had
> Osteoarthritis. After two years of not doing anything I forced myself to
> start riding to work. Seven miles each way, paying close attention to not
> strain my knees. It's now been two years since I started an my knees are
> doing much better. I feel like I could run but I'll stick to cycling.


Cycling is the best treatment for osteoarthritis. If I didn't ride, I
probably wouldn't be able to stand up. I'd think twice about any kind of
high-impact exercise like running, though, if you really have OA in your
knees.

Perfect positioning of your saddle is also an important factor in reducing
stress on your knees when cycling.

R
 
"Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Perfect positioning of your saddle is also an important factor in reducing
> stress on your knees when cycling.
>
> R


What would you regard as perfect positioning for OA. How would you achieve
it?

-Jim



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"James Fitch" <jfitchatnapannetdotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Perfect positioning of your saddle is also an important factor in
>> reducing stress on your knees when cycling.
>>
>> R

>
> What would you regard as perfect positioning for OA. How would you achieve
> it?


I found that the well-known knee-over-pedal-spindle approach relieved my
knee pain when cycling, and allowed me to go from being limited to 10-15
miles to being able to ride centuries.

I don't advocate KOPS for performance or any other purpose except comfort,
and even then it's obviously just a starting point. But I've found that an
awful lot of people who have fit themselves have paid absolutely no
attention to the relationship between their knees and their pedals, yet it's
an obvious one.

I've seen situations where people were so poorly fit to their bikes that it
wasn't even possible to achieve a neutral knee position with that rider and
that bike. And situations where achieving it required major changes
(especially to stem length) in order to restore decent fit.

Colorado Cyclist calls this the "neutral knee position" and describes it
here: http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/

KOPS may not be your perfect fit, but if you have knee pain you owe it to
yourself to try for it, at least as a starting point. And, as the CC site
notes, this adjustment will affect every other one on the bike.

R
 
"Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "James Fitch" <jfitchatnapannetdotnet> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Perfect positioning of your saddle is also an important factor in
>>> reducing stress on your knees when cycling.
>>>
>>> R

>>
>> What would you regard as perfect positioning for OA. How would you
>> achieve it?

>
> I found that the well-known knee-over-pedal-spindle approach relieved my
> knee pain when cycling, and allowed me to go from being limited to 10-15
> miles to being able to ride centuries.
>
> I don't advocate KOPS for performance or any other purpose except comfort,
> and even then it's obviously just a starting point. But I've found that an
> awful lot of people who have fit themselves have paid absolutely no
> attention to the relationship between their knees and their pedals, yet
> it's an obvious one.
>
> I've seen situations where people were so poorly fit to their bikes that
> it wasn't even possible to achieve a neutral knee position with that rider
> and that bike. And situations where achieving it required major changes
> (especially to stem length) in order to restore decent fit.
>
> Colorado Cyclist calls this the "neutral knee position" and describes it
> here: http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/
>
> KOPS may not be your perfect fit, but if you have knee pain you owe it to
> yourself to try for it, at least as a starting point. And, as the CC site
> notes, this adjustment will affect every other one on the bike.
>
> R
>


Ah, OK. Nothing out of the ordinary, then.

-Jim



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On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:

> Xchequer wrote:
>> <quoted text>
>>
>> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
>> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
>> had Osteoarthritis.

>
> Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
> Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
> but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.


I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass
of milk every other day. After my knees went south and I did some
research I realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.

Xchequer
 
On Mar 8, 6:20 am, Xchequer <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:
> > Xchequer wrote:
> >> <quoted text>

>
> >> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
> >> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
> >> had Osteoarthritis.

>
> > Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
> > Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
> > but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.

>
> I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass
> of milk every other day. After my knees went south and I did some
> research I realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.
>
> Xchequer


So you are saying the milk can have something to do? Too much calcium?

Len
 
> >> Perfect positioning of your saddle is also an important factor in
> >> reducing stress on your knees when cycling.

I agree that positioning is a very important factor. I also think that
during the cycling I must give a lot of attention to my body. If you
are cycling with other people this is very hard to achieve. If you are
cycling alone it's not easy either but if you make an effort it's
possible. I tried to apply this to all my long rides
(http://www.len.ro/cycling/to-the-black-sea/) pushing has some effects
on short rides but for long ones it's only the mind and observing your
body and not pushing it too hard.

Len
www.len.ro
 
On 2007-03-08, len <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> So you are saying the milk can have something to do? Too much calcium?


Overdoing calcium /might/ cause crystals to form in joints, which can be
*extremely* painful. These deposits can be seen on an X-ray, however,
so if you had them, your doctor should have spotted it. My father-in-law
has them in his hips (including the hip he just had replaced last
summer), and takes non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) for the
pain.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcific_Tendonitis>


--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email protected]
(_)/ (_)
 
Xchequer wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:
>
>> Xchequer wrote:
>>> <quoted text>
>>>
>>> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
>>> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
>>> had Osteoarthritis.

>> Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
>> Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
>> but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.

>
> I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass
> of milk every other day. After my knees went south and I did some
> research I realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.
>
> Xchequer


Unless you had a Calcium deficiency growing up, you can write off
Osteoporosis. Arthritis at your age is really very rare, and hopefully
you can change your life style enough to keep it at bay. Running may
have done it since I have worked with so many runners, and even in their
20's and 30's they were having complaining contests about their legs or
knees. Running is good but jogging is waaay bad. Bicycling is better if
you haven't damaged your knees too badly from running.
When you think there is a benefit to running just think of Jim Fixx.
He wrote the runner's Bible and proceeded to drop dead at 53 while running.
Good luck with all.
Bill Baka
 
len wrote:
> On Mar 8, 6:20 am, Xchequer <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:
>>> Xchequer wrote:
>>>> <quoted text>
>>>> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
>>>> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
>>>> had Osteoarthritis.
>>> Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
>>> Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
>>> but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.

>> I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass
>> of milk every other day. After my knees went south and I did some
>> research I realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.
>>
>> Xchequer

>
> So you are saying the milk can have something to do? Too much calcium?
>
> Len
>

Actually, it is pretty hard to get too much calcium. From 30 on up most
people don't get enough, especially women who have kids. That's why I
have the Tums habit and really, really solid bones. My mother had
Arthritis from about 40 on up and her diet had very little Calcium.
Genetics is a big part too. My grandmother had it so bad she took a
whole bottle of sleeping pills in 1950 and ended the pain for good at
68. Fortunately my sister, now almost 72 has no sign or it and I have
nothing at 58, but we are both very active, something my mother and
grandmother were not. Back then it just wasn't cool for women to do
aerobics and sweat, but to 'age gracefully'.
Gracefully doesn't work.
Treat every day as if you are fighting for your life, because you are.
Bill Baka
 
"len" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 8, 6:20 am, Xchequer <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:
>> > Xchequer wrote:
>> >> <quoted text>

>>
>> >> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
>> >> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
>> >> had Osteoarthritis.

>>
>> > Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
>> > Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
>> > but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.

>>
>> I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass
>> of milk every other day. After my knees went south and I did some
>> research I realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.
>>
>> Xchequer

>
> So you are saying the milk can have something to do? Too much calcium?
>
> Len


Tumeric works on osteoarthritis.
One glass of milk/day is childs play I eat cheese, yogurt, milk for my
teeth and preventing osteoporosis.
Read the research on Tum's before you eat any more.
You need Vitamin D or sunshine for it to work. BC lacks the latter.
And acid in the gut to absorb it.
"Poppin like candy" does nothin for ya
 
"Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Xchequer wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:
>>
>>> Xchequer wrote:
>>>> <quoted text>
>>>>
>>>> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
>>>> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
>>>> had Osteoarthritis.
>>> Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
>>> Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
>>> but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.

>>
>> I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass of milk
>> every other day. After my knees went south and I did some research I
>> realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.
>>
>> Xchequer

>
> Unless you had a Calcium deficiency growing up, you can write off
> Osteoporosis. Arthritis at your age is really very rare, and hopefully you
> can change your life style enough to keep it at bay. Running may have done
> it since I have worked with so many runners, and even in their 20's and
> 30's they were having complaining contests about their legs or knees.
> Running is good but jogging is waaay bad. Bicycling is better if you
> haven't damaged your knees too badly from running.
> When you think there is a benefit to running just think of Jim Fixx.
> He wrote the runner's Bible and proceeded to drop dead at 53 while
> running.
> Good luck with all.
> Bill Baka


If Jim Fixx started after a heart attack then it was just too late in life.
Having good elementary school PE programs and non stop active lifestyle is
what
people should have gotten along with the right attitude about health.
Do not expect miracles when you have not worked for it in the first place.
It is a lifetime goal. Not a flash in the pan.
 
"Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> len wrote:
>> On Mar 8, 6:20 am, Xchequer <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:
>>>> Xchequer wrote:
>>>>> <quoted text>
>>>>> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
>>>>> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
>>>>> had Osteoarthritis.
>>>> Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
>>>> Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
>>>> but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.
>>> I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass
>>> of milk every other day. After my knees went south and I did some
>>> research I realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.
>>>
>>> Xchequer

>>
>> So you are saying the milk can have something to do? Too much calcium?
>>
>> Len
>>

> Actually, it is pretty hard to get too much calcium. From 30 on up most
> people don't get enough, especially women who have kids. That's why I have
> the Tums habit and really, really solid bones. My mother had Arthritis
> from about 40 on up and her diet had very little Calcium.
> Genetics is a big part too. My grandmother had it so bad she took a whole
> bottle of sleeping pills in 1950 and ended the pain for good at 68.
> Fortunately my sister, now almost 72 has no sign or it and I have nothing
> at 58, but we are both very active, something my mother and grandmother
> were not. Back then it just wasn't cool for women to do aerobics and
> sweat, but to 'age gracefully'.
> Gracefully doesn't work.
> Treat every day as if you are fighting for your life, because you are.
> Bill Baka


Sorry to hear about your Grandmother Bill. And you are absolutely right
about the social norm. I am 51 and thankfully there was a program called
Participaction in BC in grade school. I have been active ever since.
Being athletic though as a female you still can get alot of negative self
image from people. Just jealous I guess. haha
 
> Do not expect miracles when you have not worked for it in the first place.
> It is a lifetime goal. Not a flash in the pan.


The miracle is to remember each moment that your job and work problems
are much less important than your long term health. It's also a mind
exercise (http://www.len.ro/mind/education) easier in theory than in
practice.

Len
 
nash wrote:
> "len" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> So you are saying the milk can have something to do? Too much calcium?
>>
>> Len

>
> Tumeric works on osteoarthritis.
> One glass of milk/day is childs play I eat cheese, yogurt, milk for my
> teeth and preventing osteoporosis.
> Read the research on Tum's before you eat any more.


What? They can be bad for you at about 5 a day?

> You need Vitamin D or sunshine for it to work.


Sunshine I get plenty of in the summer since riding topless is my thing.

BC lacks the latter.
> And acid in the gut to absorb it.
> "Poppin like candy" does nothin for ya
>
>

It's only CaCO3.
Bill Baka
 
nash wrote:
> "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Xchequer wrote:
>>> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:
>>>
>>>> Xchequer wrote:
>>>>> <quoted text>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
>>>>> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
>>>>> had Osteoarthritis.
>>>> Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
>>>> Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
>>>> but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.
>>> I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass of milk
>>> every other day. After my knees went south and I did some research I
>>> realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.
>>>
>>> Xchequer

>> Unless you had a Calcium deficiency growing up, you can write off
>> Osteoporosis. Arthritis at your age is really very rare, and hopefully you
>> can change your life style enough to keep it at bay. Running may have done
>> it since I have worked with so many runners, and even in their 20's and
>> 30's they were having complaining contests about their legs or knees.
>> Running is good but jogging is waaay bad. Bicycling is better if you
>> haven't damaged your knees too badly from running.
>> When you think there is a benefit to running just think of Jim Fixx.
>> He wrote the runner's Bible and proceeded to drop dead at 53 while
>> running.
>> Good luck with all.
>> Bill Baka

>
> If Jim Fixx started after a heart attack then it was just too late in life.
> Having good elementary school PE programs and non stop active lifestyle is
> what
> people should have gotten along with the right attitude about health.
> Do not expect miracles when you have not worked for it in the first place.
> It is a lifetime goal. Not a flash in the pan.
>


Yeah, I remember something like that. He thought running could reverse
heart damage and just proved it couldn't. I have been pro-active in
exercise and hyper all my life, even back in the 70's when I was a
stoner. A hyperactive stoner, I drove my friends nuts because they would
get wiped out and I would want to get a baseball game together.
I got the munchies like everybody else but burned the calories off.
Better than drinking beer and smoking tobacco.
Bill Baka
 
nash wrote:
> "Bill Baka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> len wrote:
>>> On Mar 8, 6:20 am, Xchequer <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:37:23 +0000, Bill Baka wrote:
>>>>> Xchequer wrote:
>>>>>> <quoted text>
>>>>>> I had an issue when I was running where my knees had similar pain. It
>>>>>> was so bad that I couldn't bike ride for two years. My doctor said I
>>>>>> had Osteoarthritis.
>>>>> Huh? How old? Do you drink milk or eat canned sardines for calcium? Try
>>>>> Tums antacid tablets. Calcium Carbonate. I don't have stomach problems
>>>>> but the Tums have become like candy to me and great for the bones.
>>>> I'm 33 now. When it all started I was 28. I drink about a glass
>>>> of milk every other day. After my knees went south and I did some
>>>> research I realized I was doing quite a bit wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Xchequer
>>> So you are saying the milk can have something to do? Too much calcium?
>>>
>>> Len
>>>

>> Actually, it is pretty hard to get too much calcium. From 30 on up most
>> people don't get enough, especially women who have kids. That's why I have
>> the Tums habit and really, really solid bones. My mother had Arthritis
>> from about 40 on up and her diet had very little Calcium.
>> Genetics is a big part too. My grandmother had it so bad she took a whole
>> bottle of sleeping pills in 1950 and ended the pain for good at 68.
>> Fortunately my sister, now almost 72 has no sign or it and I have nothing
>> at 58, but we are both very active, something my mother and grandmother
>> were not. Back then it just wasn't cool for women to do aerobics and
>> sweat, but to 'age gracefully'.
>> Gracefully doesn't work.
>> Treat every day as if you are fighting for your life, because you are.
>> Bill Baka

>
> Sorry to hear about your Grandmother Bill. And you are absolutely right
> about the social norm. I am 51 and thankfully there was a program called
> Participaction in BC in grade school. I have been active ever since.
> Being athletic though as a female you still can get alot of negative self
> image from people. Just jealous I guess. haha
>
>

My mother was totally bedridden in a rest home by 69 and she just
stopped eating until the natural course of events happened. It was
painful just to visit her because her hands were gnarled to uselessness
and her spine had fused in about 5 places. In some cases death is really
the only way to stop the suffering. My sister is now 71 and has no
arthritis and stays very active, so I think she has beaten the curse of
arthritis. Me, 58 and I still feel mostly like I'm in my 20's, and act
it sometimes.
What you said about self image, I don't take seriously. I was out riding
a few days back and 3 kids yelled "Ride, old man, ride.". I just asked
them if they wanted to race since they thought they were the hot shots.
Within a block they were fading into the background and I heard a "What
the f**k?" from one of them.
If it's too nasty for a real bike ride then I go out and sprint until my
legs feel like butter, then I turn around and walk back. I'm up to about
2.5 football fields at this point. I have younger friends with gray
hair, thinning hair, overweight and can't run anymore, and two have died
in their early 50's. Not for me, 90-110 is more like my goal.
Funny them kids calling me "Old man." though since I don't have gray
hair and I'm anything but bald. I think they knew I was somebodies
grandfather.
To my sister's credit, she was married but didn't have kids, so no bone
problems, and she walks at least 2 or 3 miles every day, even in Phoenix
when it gets to be 115 or so. She was a RVN/LVN nurse so knows all the
little things to do at her age.
Bill Baka
 
She was a RVN/LVN nurse so knows all the
little things to do at her age.
Bill Baka
++++++++++++++
And she knows what happens if you don't.

Unfortunately starving happens alot in retirement homes like a last protest
before death. suppose to be a painful way to go as your body eats itself.
Happened to me in my 30's. My sister is a nurse's aide for a retirement
home.
Just shows you you cannot blame your parents for everything eh