Re: largest tooth diff for ultegra triple?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Paul Kopit, May 24, 2004.

  1. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    If you raise the height of the front derailleur to accomodate the 55t
    ring, then you will drag the chain on the bottom of the front
    derailleur, especially an Ultegra, if you use a 24 or 26t granny. If
    you want 55/42, you will be best off getting a Dura Ace Triple front
    derailleur. It's cage is longer than the Ultegra.

    There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-120 rpm. In
    most of those cases, you'd be better off not pedaling and getting in a
    more aerodynamic tuck. Certainly, you won't be cornering at those
    speeds. You don't gain much in going from a 53 to 55 and it is going
    to cost big$.

    Practice spinning faster.
     
    Tags:


  2. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    Paul Kopit wrote:

    > If you raise the height of the front derailleur to accomodate the 55t
    > ring, then you will drag the chain on the bottom of the front
    > derailleur, especially an Ultegra, if you use a 24 or 26t granny. If
    > you want 55/42, you will be best off getting a Dura Ace Triple front
    > derailleur. It's cage is longer than the Ultegra.
    >
    > There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-120 rpm. In
    > most of those cases, you'd be better off not pedaling and getting in a
    > more aerodynamic tuck.


    It's definately faster for me to tuck than to try to spin out my 52/12. In
    normal riding, I tuck on the hills, and don't start pedaling again until my
    speed drops to 30 or so. I often coast right past people pedaling furiously.

    My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra triple w/o any
    problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the other two rings, but I could use a 28
    or 26.

    Matt O.
     
  3. Matt O'Toole wrote:

    > It's definately faster for me to tuck than to try to spin out my 52/12. In
    > normal riding, I tuck on the hills, and don't start pedaling again until my
    > speed drops to 30 or so. I often coast right past people pedaling furiously.


    It's true that a good tuck is faster, but I always feel in better
    control when I'm actually pedaling.

    > My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra triple w/o any
    > problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the other two rings, but I could use a 28
    > or 26.


    See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/74

    Sheldon "My Rohloff Goes From 21 To 113 Inches In 14 Even Steps" Brown
    +---------------------------------------------+
    | Do not needlessly endanger your lives |
    | until I give you the signal. |
    | --Dwight D. Eisenhower |
    +---------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  4. > My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra triple w/o any
    > problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the other two rings, but I could

    use a 28
    > or 26.


    Matt: A 28 will work with no issues whatsoever, and a 26 is usually fine.
    A 24 is pushing it beyond what will shift cleanly.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Paul Kopit wrote:
    >
    > > If you raise the height of the front derailleur to accomodate the 55t
    > > ring, then you will drag the chain on the bottom of the front
    > > derailleur, especially an Ultegra, if you use a 24 or 26t granny. If
    > > you want 55/42, you will be best off getting a Dura Ace Triple front
    > > derailleur. It's cage is longer than the Ultegra.
    > >
    > > There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-120 rpm. In
    > > most of those cases, you'd be better off not pedaling and getting in a
    > > more aerodynamic tuck.

    >
    > It's definately faster for me to tuck than to try to spin out my 52/12.

    In
    > normal riding, I tuck on the hills, and don't start pedaling again until

    my
    > speed drops to 30 or so. I often coast right past people pedaling

    furiously.
    >
    > My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra triple w/o any
    > problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the other two rings, but I could

    use a 28
    > or 26.
    >
    > Matt O.
    >
    >
     
  5. gwhite

    gwhite Guest

    Paul Kopit wrote:
    >
    > If you raise the height of the front derailleur to accomodate the 55t
    > ring, then you will drag the chain on the bottom of the front
    > derailleur, especially an Ultegra, if you use a 24 or 26t granny. If
    > you want 55/42, you will be best off getting a Dura Ace Triple front
    > derailleur. It's cage is longer than the Ultegra.
    >
    > There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-120 rpm. In
    > most of those cases, you'd be better off not pedaling and getting in a
    > more aerodynamic tuck.


    You might not say that if you raced. I've done races/races with
    tailwinds sprints and national caliber riders. I can pretty much
    guarantee you that you don't stick to their wheels by tucking. That
    said, I don't put an 11t on that often -- only for specific events that
    call for it. Most of the time I prefer an extra low rather than a
    53x11. But there are special situations where "no 11t" pushes the luck
    a bit _if other riders have it_.

    > Practice spinning faster.


    Why? The OP said they were spun out on a tandem. With a good tail wind
    and an open road, a tandem could be turning 38 mph (100 rpm in a 52x11)
    for a while. I know I don't like to pedal too much faster than 105 rpm
    for the mid/long term. 110 rpm starts to be annoying, and 120 rpm is
    definitely annoying in the mid/long term (no problem for sprints). And
    my 95-105 rpm is just a time trial mode. For just "pedaling along," I
    like 70-90 rpm better.
     
  6. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2004 02:22:38 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra triple w/o any
    >problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the other two rings, but I could use a 28
    >or 26.


    I can only answer from my tandem experience. I was able to run
    54/44/28 using Sachs Ergo shifters but needed a Shimano XTR 900 front
    derailleur. Later, a Racing-T, 52/42/28 worked fine, again with Ergo
    and the aforementioned front derailleur. A Shimano DuraAce, triple
    front derailleur worked ok too but I needed to change the big ring to
    a 53 and have the derailleur the full 3 mm above the chainring. You
    can shift that with STI. A 26 is used on many tandems as well. They
    usually are limited to using the 2-3 innermost cogs on the cassette
    with that size ring.
     
  7. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Mon, 24 May 2004 21:47:12 -0700, gwhite <[email protected]_ti.com>
    wrote:

    >
    >Why? The OP said they were spun out on a tandem. With a good tail wind
    >and an open road, a tandem could be turning 38 mph (100 rpm in a 52x11)
    >for a while. I know I don't like to pedal too much faster than 105 rpm
    >for the mid/long term. 110 rpm starts to be annoying, and 120 rpm is
    >definitely annoying in the mid/long term (no problem for sprints). And
    >my 95-105 rpm is just a time trial mode. For just "pedaling along," I
    >like 70-90 rpm better.


    I ride tandem frequently and have ridden with strong, motivated
    stokers. Due to wind resistance, the strength to pedal 38 mph for any
    length of time requires very special riders. High downhill speeds are
    maintained by spinning very high rpm for a short time, tucking and
    then repeating the process.

    When you pull the 11t off, the cog you substitute within the cluster
    will get more use.
     
  8. dan baker

    dan baker Guest

    gwhite <[email protected]_ti.com> wrote in message
    > > Practice spinning faster.

    >
    > Why? The OP said they were spun out on a tandem. With a good tail wind
    > and an open road, a tandem could be turning 38 mph (100 rpm in a 52x11)
    > -------------


    exactly.
    case in point was last weekend at the santa fe century in NM. there is
    a stretch that is a flat/gentle downhill for 12 miles, and we had a
    15mph tailwind, AND I had a male stoker that day.... we were flying
    along at 100-105rpm for 12 miles (close to 40mph on the flat!), and I
    was really wishing I had one more gear. There were a couple other
    shorter stretches too.

    d
     
  9. Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote:
    >There are so few times when you spin out a 53/11 at 100-120 rpm. In
    >most of those cases, you'd be better off not pedaling and getting in a
    >more aerodynamic tuck.


    It's a tandem. Air resistance for one, pedalling force from two. Normally
    I'm fairly scornful of the crowd who want bigger gears than Lance, but
    it's another matter here.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
     
  10. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:52:51 GMT, Paul Kopit
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I ride tandem frequently and have ridden with strong, motivated
    >stokers. Due to wind resistance, the strength to pedal 38 mph for any
    >length of time requires very special riders. High downhill speeds are
    >maintained by spinning very high rpm for a short time, tucking and
    >then repeating the process.


    I ride single. On a nearby hill, not terribly steep or long, just
    moderate, I did 43 mph in my 52x11 (124.2 gear inches). If I had a
    lower gear and spun out, and just tucked and coasted, I would not
    have passed 38mph; indeed, that's my usual speed on that hill. I
    think I could have gone faster with a taller gear. I'm better at
    mashing than spinning, and I'm happy to be so.

    Sure, I didn't get where I was going sooner, but I had more fun. I
    enjoy applying whatever power I have available when flying down a
    hill. That's a fine reason to want taller gearing.

    This was with a group, and on a whim; and I am most definitely not a
    strong or fast rider.

    Tall gears are not for everybody, but neither are they always
    useless, as some would have everybody believe.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  11. On 25 May 2004 15:23:28 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    [snip]

    > Normally
    >I'm fairly scornful . . .


    [snip]
     
  12. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:

    > It's true that a good tuck is faster, but I always feel in better
    > control when I'm actually pedaling.


    Sometimes I do too -- like when cornering on uneven pavement. This is mostly
    what I use my top gear for, and why mountain bikers like to have gears that are
    "taller than necessary."

    > Sheldon "My Rohloff Goes From 21 To 113 Inches In 14 Even Steps" Brown


    Very cool unit! I'd love to build an uber-commuter bike with one of these, and
    a full chaincase. It would be unbeatable for muddy mountain biking too (like
    they do in Germany, where I'm told it rains even more than in Seattle).

    Matt O.
     
  13. gwhite

    gwhite Guest

    Paul Kopit wrote:
    >
    > On Mon, 24 May 2004 21:47:12 -0700, gwhite <[email protected]_ti.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Why? The OP said they were spun out on a tandem. With a good tail wind
    > >and an open road, a tandem could be turning 38 mph (100 rpm in a 52x11)
    > >for a while. I know I don't like to pedal too much faster than 105 rpm
    > >for the mid/long term. 110 rpm starts to be annoying, and 120 rpm is
    > >definitely annoying in the mid/long term (no problem for sprints). And
    > >my 95-105 rpm is just a time trial mode. For just "pedaling along," I
    > >like 70-90 rpm better.

    >
    > I ride tandem frequently and have ridden with strong, motivated
    > stokers. Due to wind resistance, the strength to pedal 38 mph for any
    > length of time requires very special riders. High downhill speeds are
    > maintained by spinning very high rpm for a short time, tucking and
    > then repeating the process.
    >
    > When you pull the 11t off, the cog you substitute within the cluster
    > will get more use.


    Example: Try riding along the Pacific coast. I lived in Santa Cruz for
    18 years. In the return from what I called the "Swanton Loop," I would,
    on certain days, be able to pedal along _solo_ at 35 mph or so because
    of the blazing tailwind (on the "out" of loop it would be a grueling 15
    mph slog). It happens. Note you say "spinning very high rpm for a
    short time." If one doesn't need a _lower_ gear, they might as well put
    a higher gear on so they don't need to practice that "very high rpm." I
    do not enjoy pedaling at 145 rpm any more than 25 rpm -- not even for
    short times. So if I don't need a low gear *more*, I'll put on the
    big. It is irrelevent if it doesn't get used often or for long
    intervals.
     
  14. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2004 10:59:11 -0700, gwhite
    <[email protected]_ti.com> wrote:
    >If one doesn't need a _lower_ gear, they might as well put
    >a higher gear on so they don't need to practice that "very high rpm." I
    >do not enjoy pedaling at 145 rpm any more than 25 rpm -- not even for
    >short times. So if I don't need a low gear *more*, I'll put on the
    >big.


    Or, if one doesn't need the ultra-close ratios, they might as well
    put on higher _and_ lower gears. The logic of the "spin faster
    rather than using a tall gear" crowd breaks down when you consider
    that we have 7, 8, or 9 speed rear ends -- if you require one-tooth
    differences when cruising so your cadence stays within 5 rpm of your
    preference, what happens when you're going very slow or very fast?
    Now all of a sudden you can pedal at a vastly different cadence,
    even though between 10 mph and 30 mph you had to pedal a single
    constant perfect cadence? I don't think so.

    I do better choosing between 70 and 90 rpm gears at 15 mph then I do
    trying to hit 145 rpm at 40 mph, or trying to get up a hill at 30
    rpm doing 4 mph. That's why I have wide-range gearing front and
    rear.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  15. Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra triple w/o any
    >> problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the other two rings, but I could

    > use a 28
    >> or 26.

    >
    > Matt: A 28 will work with no issues whatsoever, and a 26 is usually fine.
    > A 24 is pushing it beyond what will shift cleanly.


    yea .. i have a 24 on mine and i guess i would agree with that. i put on a
    chain catcher and i'm happy with the performance but i wouldn't say it
    has "no problems whatsoever" .. it's certainly not annoying, tho, and i'm
    not tempted to change it.
    --
    david reuteler
    [email protected]
     
  16. dan baker

    dan baker Guest

    gwhite <[email protected]_ti.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]_ti.com>...
    > Paul Kopit wrote:
    >
    > Example: Try riding along the Pacific coast. I lived in Santa Cruz for
    > 18 years. In the return from what I called the "Swanton Loop," I would,
    > on certain days, be able to pedal along _solo_ at 35 mph or so because
    > of the blazing tailwind (on the "out" of loop it would be a grueling 15
    > mph slog). It happens.

    ----------------------------------

    this is kind of my situation. springtime in NM generally has some
    pretty steady winds in the afternoons at 10-20mph, which means the
    average loop has some significant section where it is not hard to
    maintain 35+mph on a tandem for a couple miles. Plenty of times I
    wanted one more gear above the 52x11 I have now.

    I ride mostly in NM and CO, which means a fair amount of hills, and
    the occasional double whammy of a hill combined with the headwind. ;)
    On a tandem, its pretty tough to stand for any length of time, which
    means I really want to maintain the lowest reasonable granny I can
    that will shift reasonably well, and the front deraill can handle
    given the big chainring.

    hence, my original question: given a 55 big ring, how small an inner
    ring can a ultegra triple front derail handle? So far it sounds like
    28 or maybe 27.

    d
     
  17. ph

    ph Guest

    > My question -- how small a granny can I put on my Ultegra triple w/o any
    > problems (whatsoever)? I'm happy with the other two rings, but I could use a 28
    > or 26.
    >
    > Matt O.


    I use an Ultegra 52-38-26 using TA rings with an 12-27 cassette and
    have good shifting. Initial problem was the oversized seattube but
    Vecchios managed to shim out BB nicely. The shifting is good if I
    keep the fder cable tension perfectly adjusted.
     
Loading...
Loading...