Re: Letter to BMJ- child obesity and cycle lanes.



D

Dave

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6e802366-532b-44dc-aef5-6a9ff2473d4d@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
SNIP
>Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
>and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
>seriously injured on the roads).


Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of these
because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.

I can see where you are coming from but the figures mean nothing if they are
not clear what they represent.

Dave
 
Dave wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:6e802366-532b-44dc-aef5-6a9ff2473d4d@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
> SNIP
>> Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
>> and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
>> seriously injured on the roads).

>
> Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of these
> because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.


In a vehicle. In general mummy and daddy are crappy drivers and expose
Tarquin and Josella to more danger short term by driving them then
having them walk.
 
On 7 Jan, 10:57, "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:6e802366-532b-44dc-aef5-6a9ff2473d4d@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
> SNIP
>
> >Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
> >and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
> >seriously injured on the roads).

>
> Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of these
> because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.
>
> I can see where you are coming from but the figures mean nothing if they are
> not clear what they represent.
>
> Dave


Yep, you're right , it's all road users.

Since we know cyclists exert a civilising influence on the roads and
higher cycling rates increase road safety the parent's actions seem
daft.
 
marc wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:6e802366-532b-44dc-aef5-6a9ff2473d4d@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
>> SNIP
>>> Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
>>> and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
>>> seriously injured on the roads).

>>
>> Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of
>> these because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.

>
> In a vehicle.


May I ask the source of your data, because my reading of RCGB 2006
suggests that they are wildly inaccurate.

According to RCGB 2006, the numbers of children killed or seriously
injured on journeys to or from school, by road user type for the _whole_
of 2006 were as follows:

As pedestrians: 457
As pedal cyclists: 42
As car occupants: 22
As bus/tram occupants: 15

> In general mummy and daddy are crappy drivers and expose
> Tarquin and Josella to more danger short term by driving them then
> having them walk.


Twenty times more children are killed or seriously injured walking
to/from school as are travelling by car.

--
Matt B
 
spindrift wrote:
> On 7 Jan, 10:57, "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:6e802366-532b-44dc-aef5-6a9ff2473d4d@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
>> SNIP
>>
>>> Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
>>> and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
>>> seriously injured on the roads).

>> Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of these
>> because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.
>>
>> I can see where you are coming from but the figures mean nothing if they are
>> not clear what they represent.

>
> Yep, you're right , it's all road users.


No, there were about 87 road users killed or seriously injured daily in
2006.

> Since we know cyclists exert a civilising influence on the roads


Can you cite /how/ we know this?

> and
> higher cycling rates increase road safety


Can you cite evidence that more cycling increases road safety, rather
than that more cycling reduces the risk to a particular cyclist?

> the parent's actions seem
> daft.


Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.

--
Matt B
 
Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:

> spindrift wrote:


> > the parent's actions seem
> > daft.

>
> Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
> 2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
> making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.


What proportion of children travel to school by car and what proportion
on foot?

Where I teach, the vast majority walk or take the bus. The driven have a
huge effect on the roads at the end of the day but are actually
relatively small in number.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
Ekul Namsob wrote:
> Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> spindrift wrote:

>
>>> the parent's actions seem
>>> daft.

>> Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
>> 2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
>> making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.

>
> What proportion of children travel to school by car and what proportion
> on foot?


According to TSGB 2007, the following numbers of trips per person were
made for "Education/escort education" by main mode in 2006:
Walk: 44
Bicycle: 2
Car driver: 22
Car passenger: 23
Other private: 3
Local bus: 11
Train: 2
Other public: 1

And as miles per person:
Walk: 27
Bicycle: 3
Car driver: 87
Car passenger: 76
Other private: 27
Local bus: 56
Train: 25
Other public: 6

> Where I teach, the vast majority walk or take the bus.


Same most places I think.

> The driven have a
> huge effect on the roads at the end of the day


Yes, schools and councils don't tend to accommodate too well the needs
of those who choose to bring their kids to school by car. In many
places they actively deter it, with lack of drop-off points, parking
prohibitions etc. Imagine the furore that would erupt if they chose to
deliberately make foot or bus access difficult.

> but are actually
> relatively small in number.


Luckily for those charged with planning for these things.

--
Matt B
 
Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ekul Namsob wrote:
> > Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> spindrift wrote:

> >
> >>> the parent's actions seem
> >>> daft.
> >> Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
> >> 2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
> >> making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.

> >
> > What proportion of children travel to school by car and what proportion
> > on foot?

>
> According to TSGB 2007, the following numbers of trips per person were
> made for "Education/escort education" by main mode in 2006:
> Walk: 44
> Bicycle: 2
> Car driver: 22
> Car passenger: 23
> Other private: 3
> Local bus: 11
> Train: 2
> Other public: 1


Sadly, those figures aren't terribly helpful as they do not separate the
child pedestrians from their adult escorts.
> > Where I teach, the vast majority walk or take the bus.

>
> Same most places I think.
>
> > The driven have a
> > huge effect on the roads at the end of the day

>
> Yes, schools and councils don't tend to accommodate too well the needs
> of those who choose to bring their kids to school by car. In many
> places they actively deter it, with lack of drop-off points, parking
> prohibitions etc. Imagine the furore that would erupt if they chose to
> deliberately make foot or bus access difficult.


There is no good reason to encourage the driving of children to school
by car in preference to other methods. There is no need for the drop-off
points that too many parents expect, such as immediately outside a
secondary school.

cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
Ekul Namsob wrote:
> Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ekul Namsob wrote:
>>> Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> spindrift wrote:
>>>>> the parent's actions seem
>>>>> daft.
>>>> Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
>>>> 2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
>>>> making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.
>>> What proportion of children travel to school by car and what proportion
>>> on foot?

>> According to TSGB 2007, the following numbers of trips per person were
>> made for "Education/escort education" by main mode in 2006:
>> Walk: 44
>> Bicycle: 2
>> Car driver: 22
>> Car passenger: 23
>> Other private: 3
>> Local bus: 11
>> Train: 2
>> Other public: 1

>
> Sadly, those figures aren't terribly helpful as they do not separate the
> child pedestrians from their adult escorts.


No, but they're the best I could find. At least they give approximate
orders of magnitude.

>>> Where I teach, the vast majority walk or take the bus.

>> Same most places I think.
>>
>>> The driven have a
>>> huge effect on the roads at the end of the day

>> Yes, schools and councils don't tend to accommodate too well the needs
>> of those who choose to bring their kids to school by car. In many
>> places they actively deter it, with lack of drop-off points, parking
>> prohibitions etc. Imagine the furore that would erupt if they chose to
>> deliberately make foot or bus access difficult.

>
> There is no good reason to encourage the driving of children to school
> by car in preference to other methods.


No, but there are some people who want to, or even need to, so their
requirements should be actively accommodated, not obstructed.

> There is no need for the drop-off
> points that too many parents expect, such as immediately outside a
> secondary school.


Even if their "customers" and paymasters want them? They tend to bend
over backwards to provide for buses, pedestrians and cyclists.

--
Matt B