Re: Mavic 10 sp cassette conundrum

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by bike writer, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. bike writer

    bike writer Guest

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message
    > Yes as the Mavic freehub body is taller. So it you cannot get all 10 cogs onto
    > a more normal and shorter shimano compatible casette body, like the Velomax
    >



    Okay, I almost have this figured out.
    I tried slipping the Mavic 10 on a friend's older Campag Proton with a
    Shimano freehub. Didn't fit.
    Then I was told it'd fit an American Classic freehub. Anyone know if
    this is true? I know it'll slip on, as it did with the Proton, but
    will I run out of room with the newer AC hub?
     
    Tags:


  2. joe mc cool

    joe mc cool Guest

    Please,

    I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
    It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
    aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.

    Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
    source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:

    levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
    forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
    energy, loses, lubrication,
    ....

    I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant and
    useful.

    I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
    might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.

    Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market ? Are
    there any books specifically on bicycle technology ?

    --
    Joe Mc Cool
     
  3. Ken

    Ken Guest

    joe mc cool <[email protected]> wrote in news:c4unlo$ptl$1$8302bc10
    @news.demon.co.uk:
    > I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
    > It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
    > aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.


    A couple of popular books in this area are *Bicycle Science* by Wilson and
    *High-Tech Cycling* by Burke. Some of the science in these books is fairly
    advanced (e.g., aerodynamics and biomechanics), but engineering students
    shoudn't have trouble with the material. The Wilson book is more hard core
    (science-wise) than the Burke book.
     
  4. On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:45:42 +0100, joe mc cool <[email protected]> wrote:

    <Please,
    <
    <I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
    <It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
    <aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.
    <
    <Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
    <source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:
    <
    < levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
    < forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
    < energy, loses, lubrication,
    < ....
    <
    <I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant and
    <useful.
    <
    <I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
    <might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.

    Already been [well] written - The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt
    And although I read it at age 40+, I believe it's appropriate for teens.

    <Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market ? Are
    <there any books specifically on bicycle technology ?
     
  5. Ted Bennett

    Ted Bennett Guest

    William Holiday <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Already been [well] written - The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt
    > And although I read it at age 40+, I believe it's appropriate for teens.



    Not taking anything away from Jobst's book, but it covers only wheels.
    It doesn't say anything about the steering or balancing of bicycles, or
    about gearing, and almost nothing about lubrication.

    I would suggest an old but fascinating book: Archibald Sharpe's
    treatise on bicycles and other wheeled things, from a century ago.

    --
    Ted Bennett
    Portland OR
     
  6. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    joe mc cool wrote:

    > Please,
    >
    > I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
    > It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
    > aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.

    -snip-
    I developed and taught a bicycle service class for 28 years
    with many analogies and examples from other simple machines
    to explain bicycles to the novice. And I'm interested. Write
    me please.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  7. Joe Mc Cool who? writes:

    > I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
    > It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
    > aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.


    > Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
    > source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:


    > levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
    > forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
    > energy, loses, lubrication,
    > ....


    > I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant and
    > useful.


    I think you are getting off on the wrong foot at the outset. Don't
    condescend to writing for "young people". If it is worth reading
    don't exclude the largest part of your audience.

    > I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
    > might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.


    You may have missed the principal requirement of such a text or for
    that matter any endeavor. First find out what others have done in the
    field, how they did it and what you foresee as your contribution.

    > Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market? Are
    > there any books specifically on bicycle technology?


    You might look in the FAQ for a lot of this information. As you see,
    its location is listed in this newsgroup monthly.

    I don't give your endeavor much anticipation. If you aren't any surer
    of your subject than what you present here, it could be tough
    sledding.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  8. carlfogel

    carlfogel Guest

    Jobst Brandt wrote:
    > Joe Mc Cool who? writes:
    > > I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle". It
    > > is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some aspects
    > > of physics (or engineering) and science.
    > > Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
    > > source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:
    > > levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
    > > forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
    > > energy, loses, lubrication, ....
    > > I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant
    > > and useful.

    > I think you are getting off on the wrong foot at the outset. Don't
    > condescend to writing for "young people". If it is worth reading don't
    > exclude the largest part of your audience.
    > > I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
    > > might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.

    > You may have missed the principal requirement of such a text or for that
    > matter any endeavor. First find out what others have done in the field,
    > how they did it and what you foresee as your contribution.
    > > Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market? Are there
    > > any books specifically on bicycle technology?

    > You might look in the FAQ for a lot of this information. As you see, its
    > location is listed in this newsgroup monthly.
    > I don't give your endeavor much anticipation. If you aren't any surer of
    > your subject than what you present here, it could be tough sledding.
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected]




    Dear Jobst,

    What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
    of bicycles?

    Carl Fogel



    --
     
  9. Carl Fogel writes:

    >>> I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the
    >>> Bicycle". It is aimed at young people and will help them to
    >>> understand some aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.


    >>> Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
    >>> source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:
    >>> levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
    >>> forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
    >>> energy, loses, lubrication, ...


    >>> I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant
    >>> and useful.


    >> I think you are getting off on the wrong foot at the outset. Don't
    >> condescend to writing for "young people". If it is worth reading
    >> don't exclude the largest part of your audience.


    >>> I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and
    >>> who might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to
    >>> share.


    >> You may have missed the principal requirement of such a text or for
    >> that matter any endeavor. First find out what others have done in
    >> the field, how they did it and what you foresee as your
    >> contribution.


    >>> Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market? Are
    >>> there any books specifically on bicycle technology?


    >> You might look in the FAQ for a lot of this information. As you
    >> see, its location is listed in this newsgroup monthly.


    >> I don't give your endeavor much anticipation. If you aren't any
    >> surer of your subject than what you present here, it could be tough
    >> sledding.


    > What book do you recommend for young people interested in the
    > physics of bicycles?


    I'm not sure what you see as "physics of bicycles" but the mechanical
    aspects are no different from machinery in general. At intervals,
    articles on how a rider keeps a bicycle upright appear, usually
    written by someone unclear on the subject or they wouldn't write about
    it.

    I believe the interaction between man and machine clouds the issue
    greatly so that all sorts of almost religious beliefs are bandied
    about placing all the weaknesses of the system on the machine rather
    than the rider.

    What is it that needs more explanation than has been available for
    a long while and how does Mr. anonymous plan to do this?

    .... and will he publish anonymously?

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  10. Bruce Frech

    Bruce Frech Guest

    mr cool (do you have a real name or will your book also be unknown?)

    it's already been written:
    Introduction to Engineering Materials: The Bicycle and the Walkman,
    1992, McMahon & Graham.

    Bruce
     
  11. carlfogel

    carlfogel Guest

    Jobst Brandt wrote:
    > Carl Fogel writes:
    > >>> I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
    > >>> It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
    > >>> aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.
    > >>> Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
    > >>> source of material for illustrating physical phenomena: levers,
    > >>> gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal forces,
    > >>> gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos, energy, loses,
    > >>> lubrication, ...
    > >>> I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant and
    > >>> useful.
    > >> I think you are getting off on the wrong foot at the outset. Don't
    > >> condescend to writing for "young people". If it is worth reading
    > >> don't exclude the largest part of your audience.
    > >>> I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
    > >>> might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.
    > >> You may have missed the principal requirement of such a text or for
    > >> that matter any endeavor. First find out what others have done in the
    > >> field, how they did it and what you foresee as your contribution.
    > >>> Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market? Are
    > >>> there any books specifically on bicycle technology?
    > >> You might look in the FAQ for a lot of this information. As you see,
    > >> its location is listed in this newsgroup monthly.
    > >> I don't give your endeavor much anticipation. If you aren't any surer
    > >> of your subject than what you present here, it could be tough
    > >> sledding.

    > > What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
    > > of bicycles?

    > I'm not sure what you see as "physics of bicycles" but the mechanical
    > aspects are no different from machinery in general. At intervals,
    > articles on how a rider keeps a bicycle upright appear, usually written
    > by someone unclear on the subject or they wouldn't write about
    > it.
    > I believe the interaction between man and machine clouds the issue
    > greatly so that all sorts of almost religious beliefs are bandied
    > about placing all the weaknesses of the system on the machine rather
    > than the rider.
    > What is it that needs more explanation than has been available for a
    > long while and how does Mr. anonymous plan to do this?
    > ... and will he publish anonymously?
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected]




    Dear Jobst,

    I'll try again.

    What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
    of bicycles?

    Carl Fogel



    --
     
  12. Carl Fogel writes:

    > What book do you recommend for young people interested in the
    > physics of bicycles?


    I don't know any such books. I leafed through Whitt and Wilson and
    found old wives tales, weird bicycles and obscuring jargon. I didn't
    find much physics or generic analyses, such as what causes tire
    rolling resistance and why such drag curves change with inflation
    pressure as they do, etc.

    Would you explain what you would like to see under the title "Physics
    of Bicycles"?

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  13. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    carlfogel wrote:

    > Dear Jobst,
    >
    > I'll try again.
    >
    > What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
    > of bicycles?


    A search for "bicycle science" on amazon brought up plenty of
    candidates, although I would not be surprised to find them all having
    some faults.

    James
     
  14. [email protected] wrote:
    > Would you explain what you would like to see under the title "Physics
    > of Bicycles"?


    The bicycle could be used as a device to introduce various topics,
    some of which you have tackled in the FAQ. What the FAQ lacks is
    diagrams, something made up for in your book on wheels.

    It took me a while to get the cornering forces acting on a wheel
    straight in my mind, so that would be an obvious one.

    As you indicate, rolling resistance vs. tyre pressure is a good topic.

    Drag and aerodynamics are generally of interest.

    The workings of the gears and the way leverage is applied, the
    variation of tension in the chain depending on the gear.

    Depending on the type of textbook, there are a number of good
    experiments which I think could be divised and included to
    demonstrate the points. Your plucking of a spoke at various locations
    to indicate the load in a wheel is a good one. Measuring the tension
    in the chain could also be a good one using some simplified
    apparatus. Some simple roll-down tests would demonstrate the effects
    of aerodynamics.

    --
    R.

    <> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements
    <> The tall blond one. always cause trouble."
    <> [email protected]
     
  15. carlfogel

    carlfogel Guest

    Jobst Brandt wrote:
    > Carl Fogel writes:
    > > What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
    > > of bicycles?

    > I don't know any such books. I leafed through Whitt and Wilson and found
    > old wives tales, weird bicycles and obscuring jargon. I didn't find much
    > physics or generic analyses, such as what causes tire rolling resistance
    > and why such drag curves change with inflation pressure as they do, etc.
    > Would you explain what you would like to see under the title "Physics of
    > Bicycles"?
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected]




    Dear Jobst,

    Actually, I was hoping that you would explain what you like to see under
    the title "Physics of Bicycles" and give an example, but you've just
    explained that you don't know of any such books.

    So it sounds like the original poster's idea is a good one--a book about
    the physics of bicycles for young people. Rolling resistance, wind drag,
    spoke tension, steering, chain behavior, gearing, braking, cornering,
    drafting, frame design, and so on seem like interesting topics.

    I find Isaac Asimov's 3-volume "Understanding Physics" quite clear,
    readable, and helpful for basic physics, but he never cranked out a
    volume on bicycles in particular.

    Sorry to hear that you have no suggestions.

    Carl Fogel



    --
     
  16. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "carlfogel" <[email protected]> wrote

    > <snipes at Jobst snipped>


    > So it sounds like the original poster's idea is a good one--a book about
    > the physics of bicycles for young people. Rolling resistance, wind drag,
    > spoke tension, steering, chain behavior, gearing, braking, cornering,
    > drafting, frame design, and so on seem like interesting topics.


    It's unclear as to whether the idea under discussion is a book to teach
    physics to students using the bicycle as the primary example, or a book to
    explain the specific physics involved to young people who were interested in
    cycling. I'd assumed the former from the OP.

    I don't think the bicycle is a very good example to teach physics for a couple
    of reasons. First (as I think Jobst alluded to), the man-machine interface
    complicates things. Second, bicycling is so unpopular among today's youth that
    as a familiar example you might as well use wringer washing machines and
    carpet beaters.

    If the idea is to write a physics book for young cyclists, I see no reason why
    it couldn't be a book for old cyclists also.
     
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