Road Cycling · Public discussion

Re: Michael Shermer: The Doping Dilemma

Started by Ryan Cousineau · · Last activity · 3 posts · 475 views

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Road Cycling
Published
3 April 2008
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Ryan Cousineau
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  1. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Jason Spaceman said:

    From the article:

    Quoted message said:

    * Game theory highlights why it is rational for professional
    cyclists to dope: the drugs are extremely effective as well as
    difficult or impossible to detect; the payoffs for success are high;
    and as more riders use them, a “clean” rider may become so
    noncompetitive that he or she risks being cut from the team.

    Quoted message said:

    Read it at http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-doping-dilemma

    cynical rbr summary:

    1) game theory
    2) ???????
    3) clean racing!

    Less cynical summary:

    Of "Neck" Shermer's five recommendations for creating clean racing, 1 is
    honorable, 2 and 3 are essentially wishful thinking (as in, "maybe this
    will work!"😉 for a problem that needs a little less wishful thinking,
    and 4 utterly depends on "the system of arbitration and appeals [being]
    fair and trusted," which merely sounds impossible.

    Recommendation 5 not only sounds workable, it sounds exactly like the
    Chung Solution from sometime last year.

    Of course, it depends on actually being able to detect doping, at least
    occassionally. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to depend on 4, despite what
    Shermer thinks, because the collective-punishment solution already
    imposes the substantial penalty needed to discourage doping.

    Unless, of course, the entire team decides to do it together in an
    organized fashion.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
    "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

  2. Ryan Cousineau said:

    Recommendation 5 not only sounds workable, it sounds exactly like the
    Chung Solution from sometime last year.

    There you go again, tripping on your "moralistic" desire to punish
    offenders. Because, "#5" depends on #4, which you yourself admit is
    wishful thinking.

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, it depends on actually being able to detect doping, at least
    occassionally. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to depend on 4, despite what
    Shermer thinks, because the collective-punishment solution already
    imposes the substantial penalty needed to discourage doping.

    Collective punishment has a long row to hoe when athletes know, or
    even suspect, that someone is boosting and getting away with it.

    Quoted message said:

    Unless, of course, the entire team decides to do it together in an
    organized fashion.

    Which takes us right back to making bad rules and trying to cover up
    for inept leadership with career-ending punishment.

    Fair, impartial?

    Yeah yeah, that's why Dickie Poo had to "get me a positive reader in
    here".

    Houston crime lab scandal. "Mismanaged" evidence, outright lying on
    the witness stand in courts of law.

    Conflict of interest with dope labs and organizing bodies. When is any
    of that going to have "game theory" (gag me with two thousand words or
    less)? --D-y

  3. Ryan Cousineau said:

    Recommendation 5 not only sounds workable, it sounds exactly like the
    Chung Solution from sometime last year.

    No it doesn't.

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