Re: microwave owens ... wave them goodbye?

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Juhana Harju, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. Juhana Harju

    Juhana Harju Guest

    Jik Bombo wrote:
    : "Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : news:[email protected]

    :: It's no less natural than cooking with ordinary heat. Microwaves at
    :: the long end of infrared radiation, and nobody complains about
    :: infrared heating.
    :
    : . . . . . yet.

    According to this study microwave cooking caused almost complete (97%) loss
    of flavonoids in broccoli.

    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/jws/jsfa/2003/00000083/00000014/art00018

    In contrast steaming caused only minimal loss.

    --
    Juhana
     
    Tags:


  2. On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:13:41 +0200, "Juhana Harju" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Jik Bombo wrote:
    >: "Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >: news:[email protected]
    >
    >:: It's no less natural than cooking with ordinary heat. Microwaves at
    >:: the long end of infrared radiation, and nobody complains about
    >:: infrared heating.
    >:
    >: . . . . . yet.
    >
    >According to this study microwave cooking caused almost complete (97%) loss
    >of flavonoids in broccoli.
    >
    >http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/jws/jsfa/2003/00000083/00000014/art00018
    >
    >In contrast steaming caused only minimal loss.


    It was the water. If broccoli is cooked in lots of water, it is only logical
    that the cooking water will contain the nutrients which were formerly in the
    broccoli. The nutrients are not lost, they are just transferred to the cooking
    water. The study used 1 cup chopped broccoli and 2/3 cup water. Nuked for five
    minutes. That is way too much water and far too long cooking time in a
    microwave oven. They ended up with broccoli soup and you aren't supposed to
    throw away the water when you eat soup.

    Their boiled broccoli lost 66% of its nutrients and they even cooked some using
    a pressure cooker which lost 47% nutrients.

    Ora
     
  3. HCN

    HCN Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:13:41 +0200, "Juhana Harju"
    > <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Jik Bombo wrote:
    >>: "Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>: news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>:: It's no less natural than cooking with ordinary heat. Microwaves at
    >>:: the long end of infrared radiation, and nobody complains about
    >>:: infrared heating.
    >>:
    >>: . . . . . yet.
    >>
    >>According to this study microwave cooking caused almost complete (97%)
    >>loss
    >>of flavonoids in broccoli.
    >>
    >>http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/jws/jsfa/2003/00000083/00000014/art00018
    >>
    >>In contrast steaming caused only minimal loss.

    >
    > It was the water. If broccoli is cooked in lots of water, it is only
    > logical
    > that the cooking water will contain the nutrients which were formerly in
    > the
    > broccoli. The nutrients are not lost, they are just transferred to the
    > cooking
    > water. The study used 1 cup chopped broccoli and 2/3 cup water. Nuked
    > for five
    > minutes. That is way too much water and far too long cooking time in a
    > microwave oven. They ended up with broccoli soup and you aren't supposed
    > to
    > throw away the water when you eat soup.
    >
    > Their boiled broccoli lost 66% of its nutrients and they even cooked some
    > using
    > a pressure cooker which lost 47% nutrients.
    >
    > Ora
    >
    >


    Ah... so it was not really the microwave oven, but the folks who conducted
    the study were really very bad cooks!

    Truly microwave is not the best way to cook broccoli. It should be steamed
    for just a couple of minutes (until they turn bright green). The same goes
    for brussell sprouts. Now spinach is best cooked quickly on a hot skillet
    with a touch of olive oil and garlic... just let the spinach go limp with
    the drops of water leftover from washing and from insided its leaves.

    The microwave oven does have its uses... it makes it much easier to make a
    white sauce... even with vegies in it. The way to create the sauce for
    "confetti scalloped potatoes" is to take a glass 4-cup measure. Put in it
    one small finely diced onion, two finely diced carrots, two finely diced
    celery stalks, two tablespoons butter, and two tablespoons olive oil. Put
    into the microwave at one to two minute increments until the vegies are
    softened. Then add about a third of a cup of flour with salt, pepper and
    some dried basil leaves... stir and microwave for about a minute or two
    (lots of the timing has to do with the power of the oven). Then fill the
    4-cup measure with enough milk to the 3 1/2 to 4 cup line. Microwave that
    at one to two minute sections, stirring each time... until it comes to a
    boil and thickens. This makes enough sauce for a scalloped potato (and
    often with ham) cassarole that uses up to 9 potatoes (three layers of 3
    potatoes each).

    One of the best things I got from my dad was learning how to cook. It
    certainly made it easier to manage being a cash strapped student when I
    could create meals froms scatch rather than have to use the expensive
    packages. I mean... what is with it with "Instant Rice"... a 20 pound bag
    of plain rice is so much cheaper, and who doesn't have 20 minutes for rice
    to steam unattended... what is so difficult about that?
     
  4. On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:47:21 -0800, "HCN" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:13:41 +0200, "Juhana Harju"
    >> <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Jik Bombo wrote:
    >>>: "Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>: news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>>:: It's no less natural than cooking with ordinary heat. Microwaves at
    >>>:: the long end of infrared radiation, and nobody complains about
    >>>:: infrared heating.
    >>>:
    >>>: . . . . . yet.
    >>>
    >>>According to this study microwave cooking caused almost complete (97%)
    >>>loss
    >>>of flavonoids in broccoli.
    >>>
    >>>http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/jws/jsfa/2003/00000083/00000014/art00018
    >>>
    >>>In contrast steaming caused only minimal loss.

    >>
    >> It was the water. If broccoli is cooked in lots of water, it is only
    >> logical
    >> that the cooking water will contain the nutrients which were formerly in
    >> the
    >> broccoli. The nutrients are not lost, they are just transferred to the
    >> cooking
    >> water. The study used 1 cup chopped broccoli and 2/3 cup water. Nuked
    >> for five
    >> minutes. That is way too much water and far too long cooking time in a
    >> microwave oven. They ended up with broccoli soup and you aren't supposed
    >> to
    >> throw away the water when you eat soup.
    >>
    >> Their boiled broccoli lost 66% of its nutrients and they even cooked some
    >> using
    >> a pressure cooker which lost 47% nutrients.
    >>
    >> Ora
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Ah... so it was not really the microwave oven, but the folks who conducted
    >the study were really very bad cooks!
    >
    >Truly microwave is not the best way to cook broccoli. It should be steamed
    >for just a couple of minutes (until they turn bright green). The same goes
    >for brussell sprouts. Now spinach is best cooked quickly on a hot skillet
    >with a touch of olive oil and garlic... just let the spinach go limp with
    >the drops of water leftover from washing and from insided its leaves.
    >
    >The microwave oven does have its uses... it makes it much easier to make a
    >white sauce... even with vegies in it. The way to create the sauce for
    >"confetti scalloped potatoes" is to take a glass 4-cup measure. Put in it
    >one small finely diced onion, two finely diced carrots, two finely diced
    >celery stalks, two tablespoons butter, and two tablespoons olive oil. Put
    >into the microwave at one to two minute increments until the vegies are
    >softened. Then add about a third of a cup of flour with salt, pepper and
    >some dried basil leaves... stir and microwave for about a minute or two
    >(lots of the timing has to do with the power of the oven). Then fill the
    >4-cup measure with enough milk to the 3 1/2 to 4 cup line. Microwave that
    >at one to two minute sections, stirring each time... until it comes to a
    >boil and thickens. This makes enough sauce for a scalloped potato (and
    >often with ham) cassarole that uses up to 9 potatoes (three layers of 3
    >potatoes each).
    >
    >One of the best things I got from my dad was learning how to cook. It
    >certainly made it easier to manage being a cash strapped student when I
    >could create meals froms scatch rather than have to use the expensive
    >packages. I mean... what is with it with "Instant Rice"... a 20 pound bag
    >of plain rice is so much cheaper, and who doesn't have 20 minutes for rice
    >to steam unattended... what is so difficult about that?
    >


    I do not microwave my veggies because some flavor is lost. I do not use instant
    rice because it does not taste like rice. You are right, 20 minutes to steam is
    not very long and the flavor is great. I tried instant once and never again.

    Ora
     
  5. HCN

    HCN Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]
    > On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:47:21 -0800, "HCN" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >

    ...>>Ah... so it was not really the microwave oven, but the folks who
    conducted
    >>the study were really very bad cooks!
    >>
    >>Truly microwave is not the best way to cook broccoli. It should be
    >>steamed
    >>for just a couple of minutes (until they turn bright green). The same
    >>goes
    >>for brussell sprouts. Now spinach is best cooked quickly on a hot skillet
    >>with a touch of olive oil and garlic... just let the spinach go limp with
    >>the drops of water leftover from washing and from insided its leaves.
    >>
    >>The microwave oven does have its uses... it makes it much easier to make a
    >>white sauce... even with vegies in it. The way to create the sauce for
    >>"confetti scalloped potatoes" is to take a glass 4-cup measure. Put in it
    >>one small finely diced onion, two finely diced carrots, two finely diced
    >>celery stalks, two tablespoons butter, and two tablespoons olive oil. Put
    >>into the microwave at one to two minute increments until the vegies are
    >>softened. Then add about a third of a cup of flour with salt, pepper and
    >>some dried basil leaves... stir and microwave for about a minute or two
    >>(lots of the timing has to do with the power of the oven). Then fill the
    >>4-cup measure with enough milk to the 3 1/2 to 4 cup line. Microwave that
    >>at one to two minute sections, stirring each time... until it comes to a
    >>boil and thickens. This makes enough sauce for a scalloped potato (and
    >>often with ham) cassarole that uses up to 9 potatoes (three layers of 3
    >>potatoes each).
    >>
    >>One of the best things I got from my dad was learning how to cook. It
    >>certainly made it easier to manage being a cash strapped student when I
    >>could create meals froms scatch rather than have to use the expensive
    >>packages. I mean... what is with it with "Instant Rice"... a 20 pound bag
    >>of plain rice is so much cheaper, and who doesn't have 20 minutes for rice
    >>to steam unattended... what is so difficult about that?
    >>

    >
    > I do not microwave my veggies because some flavor is lost. I do not use
    > instant
    > rice because it does not taste like rice. You are right, 20 minutes to
    > steam is
    > not very long and the flavor is great. I tried instant once and never
    > again.
    >
    > Ora


    True, I seldom microwave fresh vegies. It is convenient for warming up
    frozen vegies, for starting baked potatoes to finish in the real oven and
    for making hot water for tea. It is more of a supplement to the stove and
    oven, not a replacement.
     
  6. cathyb

    cathyb Guest

    HCN wrote:
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:eek:[email protected]
    > > On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:47:21 -0800, "HCN" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >

    > ..>>Ah... so it was not really the microwave oven, but the folks who
    > conducted
    > >>the study were really very bad cooks!
    > >>
    > >>Truly microwave is not the best way to cook broccoli. It should be
    > >>steamed
    > >>for just a couple of minutes (until they turn bright green). The same
    > >>goes
    > >>for brussell sprouts. Now spinach is best cooked quickly on a hot skillet
    > >>with a touch of olive oil and garlic... just let the spinach go limp with
    > >>the drops of water leftover from washing and from insided its leaves.
    > >>
    > >>The microwave oven does have its uses... it makes it much easier to make a
    > >>white sauce... even with vegies in it. The way to create the sauce for
    > >>"confetti scalloped potatoes" is to take a glass 4-cup measure. Put in it
    > >>one small finely diced onion, two finely diced carrots, two finely diced
    > >>celery stalks, two tablespoons butter, and two tablespoons olive oil. Put
    > >>into the microwave at one to two minute increments until the vegies are
    > >>softened. Then add about a third of a cup of flour with salt, pepper and
    > >>some dried basil leaves... stir and microwave for about a minute or two
    > >>(lots of the timing has to do with the power of the oven). Then fill the
    > >>4-cup measure with enough milk to the 3 1/2 to 4 cup line. Microwave that
    > >>at one to two minute sections, stirring each time... until it comes to a
    > >>boil and thickens. This makes enough sauce for a scalloped potato (and
    > >>often with ham) cassarole that uses up to 9 potatoes (three layers of 3
    > >>potatoes each).
    > >>
    > >>One of the best things I got from my dad was learning how to cook. It
    > >>certainly made it easier to manage being a cash strapped student when I
    > >>could create meals froms scatch rather than have to use the expensive
    > >>packages. I mean... what is with it with "Instant Rice"... a 20 pound bag
    > >>of plain rice is so much cheaper, and who doesn't have 20 minutes for rice
    > >>to steam unattended... what is so difficult about that?
    > >>

    > >
    > > I do not microwave my veggies because some flavor is lost. I do not use
    > > instant
    > > rice because it does not taste like rice. You are right, 20 minutes to
    > > steam is
    > > not very long and the flavor is great. I tried instant once and never
    > > again.
    > >
    > > Ora

    >
    > True, I seldom microwave fresh vegies. It is convenient for warming up
    > frozen vegies, for starting baked potatoes to finish in the real oven and
    > for making hot water for tea. It is more of a supplement to the stove and
    > oven, not a replacement.


    Yeah; ours broke down few weeks ago. Since we hardly ever use it, we
    decided not to bother replacing it. So I thought. In fact, we just
    don't *cook* in it.

    I lasted a week before I ran out to buy another. If nothing else, it is
    invaluable for reheating cups of tea you have forgotten about. Since I
    hate shopping, I buy meat weekly, but here in Queensland, it's
    necessary to (a) take an Esky (cool box) to the supermarket with you,
    and (b) freeze any meat as soon as you get home. Defrosting overnight
    is not an option unless you enjoy waking to the stench of rank chicken.

    The mercola site which provided the nonsense john posted in full
    mentioned not using microwaves for heating baby milk; I can't find the
    Lee article in the Lancet that it quotes on pubmed or anywhere else. As
    far as I can recall, the reason our midwife gave for that is the "hot
    spots" that can occur in microwave-heated liquids, and the fact that
    some people may forget to shake the damn stuff before giving it to
    their baby. On the advice of our doctor, we merrily microwaved both
    breast and later formula milk with no ill effects.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=7911811&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=1518698&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=8864939&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=8889628&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

    Cheers,

    Cathy
     
  7. HCN

    HCN Guest

    "cathyb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >

    ....snip..

    > I lasted a week before I ran out to buy another. If nothing else, it is
    > invaluable for reheating cups of tea you have forgotten about. Since I
    > hate shopping, I buy meat weekly, but here in Queensland, it's
    > necessary to (a) take an Esky (cool box) to the supermarket with you,
    > and (b) freeze any meat as soon as you get home.


    I'm familiar with that scenario. The store is several miles away, and the
    desert heat makes the car trunk much warmer than the air-conditioned
    interior. Unlike most of my family, I opted for a maritime climate.

    Defrosting overnight
    > is not an option unless you enjoy waking to the stench of rank chicken.


    I stopped defrosting on the kitchen counter years ago, and did it in the
    fridge (sometimes jumpstarted by the microwave oven). The first reason was
    the acquisition of a cat... then the next reason is that the public health
    people were telling us that it was bad and caused bacteria growth.

    >
    > The mercola site which provided the nonsense john posted in full
    > mentioned not using microwaves for heating baby milk; I can't find the
    > Lee article in the Lancet that it quotes on pubmed or anywhere else. As
    > far as I can recall, the reason our midwife gave for that is the "hot
    > spots" that can occur in microwave-heated liquids, and the fact that
    > some people may forget to shake the damn stuff before giving it to
    > their baby. On the advice of our doctor, we merrily microwaved both
    > breast and later formula milk with no ill effects.


    Exactly. Except for our oldest we made the minimum amount of formula (two
    ounces) in the evening. Split it into two small bottles. Put a dose of his
    phenobarbitol in each, fed him his evening dose, and put the morning dose in
    the fridge. Then twelve hours later, microwaved the bottle for just a few
    seconds, shook it, put on the nipple and gave him his morning dose.

    I also found it easier to make baby food by steaming vegies and fruits.
    Mushing them in the blender, and then freezing them in ice cube trays, and
    then putting them away in zip-lock bags in the freezer. For a meal we could
    take out a cube of food and gently warm it in the microwave oven. The cubes
    were only about two tablespoons, which was much better than using half or
    even just a quarter of a jar of bought food, where the remainder could get
    tossed for being out in the warmth too long.

    There are several who seem to equate the "microwaves" to nuclear radiation.
    I knew someone in college who was so paranoid about microwaves he would not
    go near the one they put in the dorm cafeteria. He also did not understand
    that the teeny tiny amount of radioactive material in the 1970's era smoke
    detectors were less risky than NOT being alerted to a house fire. Logic was
    always lost on him.


    >
    > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=7911811&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
    >
    > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=1518698&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum
    >
    > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=8864939&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum
    >
    > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=8889628&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cathy
    >
     
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