Re: Near Miss from Trying to Signal

[Mark Tranchant]

JohnB wrote:

> Mark Tranchant wrote:
>
>>Colin Blackburn wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In the UK there are very few situations (if any?) where a motor vehicle
>>>is required to signal if there is no-one around who needs to know. Of
>>>course, many drivers fail to signal because they think peds and
>>>cyclists don't need to know but that's another matter.
>>
>
>
>>Whilst it is important that one is always aware of everyone around, I think
>>it's foolish to assume that you've definitely seen everyone who might care
>>about your signal - what about the pedestrian behind the parked car, for
>>example?
>
>
>>This technique also encourages habitual correct signalling, which can only
>>be a good thing.
>
>
> A problem with *always* signalling and instilling it into training,
> especially with young people is that it can become more important than
> reading the road and the conditions.
> It is better to emphasise just why one needs to signal.

....which includes informing the person you haven't (couldn't) see what
you're doing.

> Of course signalling should always be carried out where it may affect
> someone else but to do it *****-nilly breeds a culture of "when I signal
> i have right of way" and one much practised by many motorists :-(

Agreed. Signalling should mean "I have determined that now is a reasonable
time to make the signalled action, and I intend to manoeuvre accordingly as
soon as it is safe to do so".

Round these parts, it has a tendency to mean "here I come!".

> There are also situations where it can be positively dangerous for a
> cyclist to signal such as when turning left when there is a vehicle
> behind that is intending the same. A signal may encourage the vehicle to
> overtake just as the cyclist is also turning with disastrous and
> potentially fatal results.

True. I solve this (in all the left turns I need to make) by moving out to
prevent overtaking traffic and to give me a better line through the corner.

--
Mark.

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Ben wrote:

> > Is it possible to re-wire it? Handy with a soldering iron?
>
> Horrid fumes! How about just splicing in an extra length of wire?

Worth a go. Even if I end up destroying it, I can't use it in its present state
so I will be no the worse.

EFR
Ile de France

 

[Peter Clinch]

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

> I bought a flashing indicator, after much research on the Web because this is
> a rare requirement and it was not easy to find. Unfortunately, the wire that
> connects the flashing rear lights to the control panel on the handlebar is far
> too short for a lady's bike with a low step-through - it seems designed for
> small men's bikes only.

One I saw an ad. for (either in Cycle or VeloVision) had wireless
control. You may wish to hunt for one of those.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

> I bought a flashing indicator, after much research on the Web because
> this is a rare requirement and it was not easy to find.
> Unfortunately, the wire that connects the flashing rear lights to the
> control panel on the handlebar is far too short for a lady's bike
> with a low step-through - it seems designed for small men's bikes
> only.

Heh! Is that because big men don't use indicators? <gd&r>

I suggest you invest in a crimping tool. Crimp connections are better than
soldering for the most part, and are handy for all sorts of things. OK,
that may depend on you being the sort of person who routinely does
low-voltage wiring jobs on bikes, train sets and the like. So maybe not!

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

> No, the stem length refers to the horizontal distance between the
> steering tube and the handlebars. This is usually from 4-10 cm.
>

>
> Handlebars for taller people are usually attached to longer stems. This
> obviously affects steering and its geometry.
>
> > > OP's problems might be due to the bike, not her competence.
> > >
> > > She should only signal if safe (and consider flashing electric indicators)
>
> > I bought a flashing indicator, after much research on the Web because
> > this is
> > a rare requirement and it was not easy to find. Unfortunately, the wire that
> > connects the flashing rear lights to the control panel on the
> > handlebar is far
> > too short for a lady's bike with a low step-through - it seems designed for
> > small men's bikes only.
>
> Oh dear...
>
> --
> Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
> Edgware.

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Old Fart at Play wrote:

> Last time I was in Cambridge the bikes were ridden
> by psychopaths rather than on cycle paths.

A.K.A. foreign students. They like to take roundabouts the wrong way. Mind you, I'm
not so easy myself with the left-hand traffic but I'm far too cowardly to try any of
those stunts, and just end up pushing my bike most of the time.

What gets me is all those clueless pedestrians milling around in the middle of
Trinity Street, as if there weren't perfectly good sidewalks on either side. I guess
it's really fun to stroll a pram down the yellow line.

EFR
Ile de France

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Bernie wrote:

> Do you still have your other bike? "Myrtille"? Changing bikes now and
> then can add to your riding skills and give a little insight into
> what's going on with the 'problem' bike. In my experience, even similar
> bikes feel different.

I do still have Myrtille and use her for the supermarket runs. Steering-wise, there
is no comparison, she is so sweet and easy and I can do all sorts of things with
her that I wouldn't attempt on Behemoth. On the other hand, I _hate_ that
derailleur which is _never_ in the right gear and had an accident on Myrtille this
winter when her over-sharp V-brakes threw me over the handlebars. I've had the
brakes adjusted since, but there's still the need to tie up my skirts so that they
don't get caught in her works and her tendency to **** my clothes and the tyres
which are constantly deflating and and and...

> Also, it sounds like
> you ride in a lot of traffic congestion where you commute. Perhaps a
> peaceful carless bike path will make a difference in how you ride
> simply because it is easier to relax.

My route to work includes a bike path and some busy roads. The supermarket route is
mainly bike path and parking lot. I wish there were bike paths everywhere but alas,
that's not in my control.

EFR
Ile de France

 

[David Nutter]

JohnB <[email protected]> said:

> There are also situations where it can be positively dangerous for a
> cyclist to signal such as when turning left when there is a vehicle
> behind that is intending the same. A signal may encourage the vehicle to
> overtake just as the cyclist is also turning with disastrous and
> potentially fatal results.

I know what you mean. One of the most annoying is when I'm trying to get
into position for a junction or roundabout which has two or more approach
lanes, the rightmost of which is the correct one. All too often my signal
right to change lanes seems to encourage motorists behind me in those lanes
to accelerate hard in an effort to get past me before I change lanes and
thus slow them down by some fractional amount.

What's even worse is those persons of dubious ancestry who try it when
you've already started the manoeuvre, the only conclusion I can draw is that
they missed/ignored my signal but pay more attention to changes in road
positioning.

I'm sure my neck will go lopsided sooner or later from the constant
life-saver glances

Regards,

-david

 

[Peter Clinch]

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

> I do still have Myrtille and use her for the supermarket runs. Steering-wise, there
> is no comparison, she is so sweet and easy and I can do all sorts of things with
> her that I wouldn't attempt on Behemoth.

Your various crank height/seating steering etc. problems are now
suggesting to me that whatever the pros and cons of the basic design of
Behemoth, it just isn't the right bike for you.

> On the other hand, I _hate_ that
> derailleur which is _never_ in the right gear and had an accident on Myrtille this
> winter when her over-sharp V-brakes threw me over the handlebars. I've had the
> brakes adjusted since, but there's still the need to tie up my skirts so that they
> don't get caught in her works and her tendency to **** my clothes and the tyres
> which are constantly deflating and and and...

These are all problems that should easily be dealt with to leave you
with a sound bike you're happy to ride and where the steering isn't an
issue. Being able to control your bike reliably is /absolutely
fundamental/ to your safety so I'd look at curing Myrtille's ills.
Specifically:

derailleur, replace it with a hub gear. Possibly a hub gear with a
brake so you can signal with the rear lever hand and brake at the same
time, though if you prefer hand levers stick with those;

over-sharp brakes, there ain't usually any such thing, it's just how you
use them. Braking should be easy to achieve with fingertip pressure on
good brakes on all but the sharp downhills and/or emergency stops. If
you braked hard enough to get sent over the bars that suggests an overly
aggressive and grabby braking style. Practice light pressure with your
fingertips. (If you wish to throw money at the problem for the best rim
brakes money can buy, Magura HS-33s are easy to use and easy to adjust,
and also easy to replace the pads);

skirt guards should be available, at least in the NL if not in Paris.
I'd do some online shopping. Similarly, a chain case;

Tyres that constantly deflate are simply poor quality tyres and/or
knackered inner tubes. Replace the inner tubes and rim tape and get
some kevlar belted tyres like Schwalbe Marathons.

And voila, one far more utilitarian incarnation of Myrtille where you
can be confident about the steering.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Peter Clinch wrote:

> These are all problems that should easily be dealt with to leave you
> with a sound bike you're happy to ride and where the steering isn't an
> issue. Being able to control your bike reliably is /absolutely
> fundamental/ to your safety so I'd look at curing Myrtille's ills.

Myrtille is a supermarket bike that I bought new for 145 Euros, about 95 Pounds. After
just a few months, her brakes and derailleur gave out. That was when I decided to
graduate to a "definitive" bike, Behemoth, who had all the technical specs that I wanted.
On the other hand, preferring the handling on Myrtille, I invested another 200 Euros in
getting her parts upgraded. But she's still a very modest bike and I'm not sure it would
be worth going all out to get her hub gears and such. To top it off, she has all sorts of
non-standard bits and sizes that only the supermarket she came from know anything about.
For example, a hub guard cannot be fitted for this reason.

I need a high-spec bike that has the same quality as Behemoth but that handles like
Myrtille. That is what I came to search for in the UK. Here in Paris that kind of bike is
practically not sold or supported so there is nothing to try.

In June I am going to Geneva for a school reunion. I'll try there if I get a chance.

EFR
Ile de France

 

[James Hodson]

On Mon, 10 May 2004 14:28:27 +0100, "Colin Blackburn"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In the UK there are very few situations (if any?) where a motor vehicle is
>required to signal if there is no-one around who needs to know. Of course,
>many drivers fail to signal because they think peds and cyclists don't
>need to know but that's another matter.

Hi Colin

Then again, this is the opposite situation when a cyclist (let's call
him James) is signalling right (both correctly and direction) and is
towards the right side of the lane when a car accelerates and moves
right to overtake him.

Fortunately, there was a side road that made for a good escape road.

The nameless cyclist kept quite calm and gave a mild gesture implying
"what d'you think you're doing" (no fingers). The car slammed on its
brakes. I made my right turn, cycled for another hundred yards, opened
my gate then front door and settled town to a nice mug of hot
chocolate.

I'd guess that the driver carried on being even more annoyed than he'd
appeared to be initially.

Sometimes I think that bright clothing is more inconspicuous than
black attire.

James

 

[James Hodson]

On Mon, 10 May 2004 18:47:18 +0100, JohnB <[email protected]> wrote:

>A problem with *always* signalling and instilling it into training,
>especially with young people is that it can become more important than
>reading the road and the conditions.
>It is better to emphasise just why one needs to signal.

Agreed, John. When being driven in others' cars and also when cycling,
I see all too many riders shoving out their arms and turning.

James

 

[Michael MacClancy]

On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:36:23 +0200, Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:


>
> I need a high-spec bike that has the same quality as Behemoth but that handles like
> Myrtille. That is what I came to search for in the UK. Here in Paris that kind of bike is
> practically not sold or supported so there is nothing to try.
>
> In June I am going to Geneva for a school reunion. I'll try there if I get a chance.
>
> EFR
> Ile de France

I would have thought Germany was the place to go. A big cycle shop will
have loads of that type of bike. Look at leisure bikes here:

http://www.trekbikes.com/bikes/2004/citybike/

Mind you the French language Trek site has the same bikes but says they're
only available to Belgium, Luxembourg and Netherlands.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter
saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Michael MacClancy wrote:

> I would have thought Germany was the place to go.

Germany, Belgium or the Netherlands. Unfortunately I never went to school in any of those
places....

EFR
Ile de France

 

[Mark South]

"Michael MacClancy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:36:23 +0200, Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
>
> > I need a high-spec bike that has the same quality as Behemoth but that
handles like
> > Myrtille. That is what I came to search for in the UK. Here in Paris that
kind of bike is
> > practically not sold or supported so there is nothing to try.
> >
> > In June I am going to Geneva for a school reunion. I'll try there if I get a
chance.
>
> I would have thought Germany was the place to go. A big cycle shop will
> have loads of that type of bike. Look at leisure bikes here:

Well if the reunion is in Geneva then that's where EFR will be, not Germany.

Utility bikes of all types are very popular in Geneva (and the rest of
Switzerland) and quite easy to find.

> http://www.trekbikes.com/bikes/2004/citybike/
>
> Mind you the French language Trek site has the same bikes but says they're
> only available to Belgium, Luxembourg and Netherlands.

Selling US made goods in France and Germany is a bit of a tough effort right now
I suspect.
--
Mark South
Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net
<<Tiens! Ce poulet a une grenade!>>

 

[loki]

"loki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
> "Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
> [...]
> > The question was addressed to loki since s/he stated a leagl point even
> > within the Uk we have different legal systems so it if worth clarifying
> > where one is from when claiming a point of law, especially in a
> > crossposted thread.
>
> I wasn't claiming a point of law [I'm in Canada btw] It has always been
my
> understanding that signalling was not conditional on there being people in
> the vicinity. If you are turning you signal. Now I haven't read the local
> statutes but it seems like common knowledge hereabouts. Maybe if I
actually
> did read the Ontario Traffic Act I would be disabused of my common
> knowledge assumption... though I doubt it.

Apparently my common knowledge is exceedingly rare. I wuz wrong!!

Excerpt from the Ontario Traffic Act

http://www.golishlaw.com/statutes/oh08ht_a.htm

Signal for left or right turn

142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning
to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway
or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the
roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the
operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a
signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the
intention to make the movement.

--
'Our religion is to go and blow it all
So it's shopping every Sunday at the mall'
-shania twain

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Elisa Francesca
Roselli ('[email protected]') wrote:

> I need a high-spec bike that has the same quality as Behemoth but that
> handles like Myrtille. That is what I came to search for in the UK.
> Here in Paris that kind of bike is practically not sold or supported
> so there is nothing to try.

OK, folks, lets make with some suggestions. Cannondale are doing a
'Street Vintage Féminine' model which seems to have a lot of the things
and style Elisa wants except that it's deraileur and not hub gear
<URL:http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/ce/model-4SS2M.html>.
(Cannondale are also doing a thing they call a 'Street Rohloff' this
year but not apparently with a step-through frame:
<URL:http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/ce/model-4SS5K.html>)

There are ten Cannondale dealers in Paris
<URL:http://clients.mapquest.com/cannondale/mqinterconnect?link=map&&clientpoi1=1&closestn=10&closestprox=1&miles=250&mouse_mode=identify&si=2&so=1&ss=1&x=31&y=11&mt=488666&orig_lat=488666&mg=23333&orig_lng=23333&fc=Paris&fy=FR&ml=6>

1. Les Velos Parisiens
3 Rude de l'Abbe Gregoire
Paris, 75006
FR
0145447297
1.25 miles from the center


2. Bicloune
7, rue Froment
Paris, 75011
FR
0148054775
2.19 miles from the center


3. VTT Center
1, Place de Rungis
Paris, 75013
FR
33145654989
2.57 miles from the center


4. La Boutique du Triathlon
181 Av. du General de Gaulle
Clamart, 92140
FR
0146-317113
6.36 miles from the center


5. Perigois Cycles
20, avenue Gabriel Peri
Bezons, 95870
FR
33130763323
6.63 miles from the center


6. Mountain Biker
18, Rue des Etats G,n,raux
Versailles, 78000
FR
33130212332
10.28 miles from the center


7. Velo 9 Darcel
147, Boulevard Bordier
Montigny, 95370
FR
0139-787878
10.64 miles from the center


8. Cycles A.J.P.
Place du Combat
Noisy le Grand, SE 93160
FR
33143042202
10.75 miles from the center


9. Cycles Jacky
35 Av. du Gen.de Gaulle
Villebon, ES 91140
FR
33169310104
12.72 miles from the center


10. Velo News
7, rue Marcel Perin
Mery sur Oise, 95540
FR
33134481010
15.23 miles from the center

Other suggestions?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Age equals angst multiplied by the speed of fright squared.
;; the Worlock

 

[Peter Clinch]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> OK, folks, lets make with some suggestions.

I'd stick with the Dutch roadster route, but with the big proviso of Try
Before You Buy, and don't buy unless happy. A roadster gives you
immediately what's wanted: well built, step through frame, no derailleur
and a skirt guard plus good carrying racks. There'll also be easy
options for dynamo lights.

Even small changes can result in quite big handling differences, I
wouldn't like to predict how something will handle based on a picture.
Case in point, first trip to the NL this year we hired two roadsters
each over the trip, both built by Batavus and to the same overall
pattern. First I felt was slightly twitchy and I'd only try it no-hands
for a few meters at a time, and never adjacent to a canal, second was
easily the steadiest bike I've ever ridden and I could (and did) ride it
no hands as long as I wanted (including taking a pair of gloves out of
my pocket and putting them on while riding along, and using the back
pedal brake without holding the bars for brief experiments).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Elisa Francesca Roselli]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> OK, folks, lets make with some suggestions. Cannondale are doing a
> 'Street Vintage Féminine' .....

It's kind of you to try but please don't bother. This story has a long history in rec.bicycles.misc and nl.fiets, so long, in fact, that they're all quite sick of hearing about it.

Suffice it to say that I pretty much know the Cannondale, Trek, Giant, Union, Sparta, Gazelle, Batavus and Utopia catalogues by heart. I have seen the Cannondale Street but consider it unsuitable. The Rohloff is a man's bike. In general
I'm not attracted to Cannondale at all. Arrogantly marketed, hugely overpriced just for the name, as well as male-oriented and road-oriented.

There is a narrow range of Giant bikes (Energy 7 LDS, EZB Revive ...) that have entered into consideration, as well as a number of Sparta and Union models, but the constant rub-up is that they are not available to be seen and tried
locally, which is why I had to come to the UK just to view them.

The first shop on your list, Les Vélos Parisiens, is also billed as the only Europe-wide dealer for Utopia bikes. What this means is that they have exactly _one_ Utopia, a dark green Sprint with a 49 cm frame, available for trial. Been
there, done that. Beautiful bike to be sure (though not as beautiful as Behemoth). But I want to try also the size below and the size above, and some other models, and even if I go for it I would still have to order from Germany, and
there could still be differences between the bike I try and the bike I get, so back to square one.

EFR
Ile de France

 

[Peter Clinch]

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

> I'm not attracted to Cannondale at all. Arrogantly marketed, hugely
> overpriced just for the name, as well as male-oriented and
> road-oriented.

While I'd agree they're probably not the bikes for you, I don't think
that's a fair assessment of them. They cost a lot because they're very
good, not just because they have "Cannondale" written on them, they do a
range of women specific designs and they're at least as famous for their
mountain bikes these days as the road models.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/