Re: Near Miss from Trying to Signal



P

Peter Clinch

Guest
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

> Behemoth doesn't like this at all. Just after I _stop_ nodding my head,
> she decides to convey this subtle movement to the whole of her frame,
> especially to her cranky, hypersensitive steering.


As suggested elsewhere, you need to get the bike checked, though it
would probably just need a confident cyclist to give it 5 minutes and
see if it's okay. If it's genuinely touchy then off to the mechanic for
a hard look. IIRC it's a Dutch style roadster and these are usually
about the easiest bikes you can find anywhere to roll along where you
want riding one handed (or even no handed) once you have the technique.

As suggested elsewhere in the thread by David, the key is no input
beyond the minimum necessary into the steering. While he suggests just
palm tops, I like to ride with just fingertips on the bars. As well as
preventing a death grip it helps you sit even further back/upright which
in turn minimises any steering input from leaning on the bars.

If you're putting nothing into the steering on either side then it
follows there will be no difference removing one of the hands that isn't
doing anything (aside from keeping things steady). By contrast, if both
hands are actively putting energy into the steering but opposing one
another to keep you straight, as soon as you alter anything (such as
leaning to one side as you might do nodding) then you'll compromise your
steering.
The key is to relax, though of course that's always hard to do when
you're stressed about the need to do it :-(

John's tip of looking where you're going, rather than at what you're
doing, is a /very/ good one and applicable to a great many activities.
I quote it at myself on the unicycle, in the kayaks and canoes, on the
skates and the skis... When you look where you want to go, you tend to
go there as the body tends to look after the rest. You look after the
end and the means often follows, but stare at the means while aiming at
an end you can't even see at the time tends to produce failure and
frustration.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When you look where you want to go, you tend to
> go there as the body tends to look after the rest.


As I warn people, the obvious corollary is also true. Look at the ground or at
THAT TREE! and you WILL experience contact....
 
Peter Clinch wrote:

> As suggested elsewhere in the thread by David, the key is no input
> beyond the minimum necessary into the steering. While he suggests just
> palm tops, I like to ride with just fingertips on the bars. As well as
> preventing a death grip it helps you sit even further back/upright which
> in turn minimises any steering input from leaning on the bars.


I can sometimes manage to lighten my hands on the steering when in a high
gear. This transfers weight and gravity to the lower part of my body and
helps me to that backwards, upright posture. However, I can't remove them
altogether because I need to keep control of the brakes, which are down
underneath. Even pedalling along fast and from the thighs, though, I cannot
keep this bike on the straight and narrow. We sway.

Behemoth is particularly problematic in lower gears. The light, easy
pedalling accentuates her wobble. With less resistance on my legs, I find
myself sitting more forward on the seat and weighing more heavily on the
front bars. Although the seat is as far back as it will go, I do have the
feeling on her that I am too far forward in relation to the pedal axis, and
that the crank is too high off the ground.

Recently, I have ratcheted up all the gears to which I was accustomed.
Instead of starting up the faux plat from my home in second, I now do it in
third, and find that the serious hill after the traffic light actually clears
better in fourth than in first.

These are the problems that led to my UK excursion last month (cf my threads
on Bicycle Related Holiday in Cambridge and London). Periodically I get a
bout of OCD and start trying to "do something" about Behemoth. At the moment
I'm between attacks. On the agenda now is to continue courtyard practise and
get her to her contrôle technique as soon as I can.

EFR
Ile de France
 
Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email protected]> writes:

> [...] I find myself sitting more forward on the seat and weighing
> more heavily on the front bars. Although the seat is as far back as
> it will go, I do have the feeling on her that I am too far forward
> in relation to the pedal axis,


I put it to you that this is [at least one of] the root causes of your
difficulties. For an appropriate saddle height, moving the saddle
forward (or sitting further forward on it) will decrease the amount of
weight on your hands (as described by
<URL: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm>). As others have
suggested, aim for a fore-aft saddle position such that you have zero
weight on the bars (i.e. if you chopped the handlebars off, your hands
would naturally occupy the position where the grips would be without
exerting your back muscles). Then you should be able (if only for
demonstration purposes) to steer with your thumbs and operate the
brakes with your middle finger, as alluded to by Peter.

> and that the crank is too high off the ground.


Too high for what?

--
Mark
 
Mark South wrote:
> "Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>When you look where you want to go, you tend to
>>go there as the body tends to look after the rest.


> As I warn people, the obvious corollary is also true. Look at the ground or at
> THAT TREE! and you WILL experience contact....


Absolutely. The key one for me is picking trails through boulder strewn
paths on the MTB. Look at the gap and through you go, look at the rocks
you want to miss and they start to exert an enormous magnetic attraction...
More recently, just getting around my pot-holed and rutted lane on the
Muni. I can't do a U-turn, but weaving in between a patchwork of
puddles isn't much trouble.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
>> Absolutely. The key one for me is picking trails through boulder

> strewn paths on the MTB. Look at the gap and through you go, look at
> the rocks you want to miss and they start to exert an enormous
> magnetic attraction...


Along the Beverly brook at the bottom of Wimbledon common, my kids changed
their mantra from "I will not fall in the river" to "I will stay on the
path" for that very reason.

pk
 
Mark Williams wrote:

> Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > and that the crank is too high off the ground.

>
> Too high for what?


Too high for me to adjust the saddle height so that it is comfortable for pedalling
but that I can still reach the ground with my toes. I sit down before I start. I
cannot start and stop from a standing posture, and cannot pedal standing. I _ need_
to be able to touch the ground with my toes when seated. .

As a consequence, the only way I can get a reasonable distance between the seat and
the pedals is to have the seat back as far as possible, semi-recumbent fashion. Even
like this, I feel the pedal crank way too backward for me. My legs have to reach
behind me like a ballerina to find the pedals and I frequently lose them when
shifting to a higher gear, as my foot just slides off towards the front. In
addition, there is a gulf between the seat and the handlebars, accentuated by the
need to have the handlebars as low and the headset as far forward as possible, to
help with stability. So I lean far forward to reach the bars and end up putting a
lot of weight on them.

EFR
Ile de France
 
On Tue, 11 May 2004 12:07:26 +0200, Elisa Francesca Roselli
<[email protected]> wrote:

....
> like this, I feel the pedal crank way too backward for me. My legs have
> to reach
> behind me like a ballerina to find the pedals and I frequently lose
> them when
> shifting to a higher gear, as my foot just slides off towards the front.


Have you tried fitting something like Zefal mini toe clips? These
essentially stop your foot sliding forward off the pedal but they do not
have straps and so are not as restrictive as normal toe-clips.

Colin
 
Colin Blackburn wrote:

> Have you tried fitting something like Zefal mini toe clips? These
> essentially stop your foot sliding forward off the pedal but they do not
> have straps and so are not as restrictive as normal toe-clips.


I bought some Zefals in Cambridge last month but so far have not had them
fitted. I'm so afraid of falling and still have other issues to sort out.
Practically everyone falls with clips or clipless a few times until they get
used to them and I'm not ready to risk it just yet, even without the
incrimminated straps.

EFR
Ile de France
 
On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:17:16 +0200, Elisa Francesca Roselli
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I bought some Zefals in Cambridge last month but so far have not had them
> fitted. I'm so afraid of falling and still have other issues to sort out.
> Practically everyone falls with clips or clipless a few times until
> they get
> used to them and I'm not ready to risk it just yet, even without the
> incrimminated straps.


You won't fall off with Zefals regardless of people's experience with
clipless and clips with straps. Your foot is not bound to the pedal in any
way as it is with the other two systems. There is no special technique
needed, just lifting your foot from the pedal as you do ordinarily is all
that is required. All Zefals do is stop your foot sliding forwards.

Colin
 
Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:

> I bought some Zefals in Cambridge last month but so far have not had
> them fitted. I'm so afraid of falling and still have other issues to
> sort out. Practically everyone falls with clips or clipless a few
> times until they get used to them and I'm not ready to risk it just
> yet, even without the incrimminated straps.


The Zéfal toecups are an exception. My son has been using them since the
age of 8 and has not fallen off since they were fitted.

--
Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

Victory is ours! Down with Eric the Half A Brain!
 
Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:

> Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote:
>
> > I bought some Zefals in Cambridge last month but so far have not had
> > them fitted. I'm so afraid of falling and still have other issues to
> > sort out. Practically everyone falls with clips or clipless a few
> > times until they get used to them and I'm not ready to risk it just
> > yet, even without the incrimminated straps.

>
> The Zéfal toecups are an exception. My son has been using them since the
> age of 8 and has not fallen off since they were fitted.


Seconded. I was always reluctant to use clips/clipless on my upright for
fear of falling (I'm a clumsy wossname) but I fitted the little
toe-thingies (not sure if they were Zefal ones, but I think they were
the same sort of thing). I never had a problem with them.

--
Carol
"The bicycle is the product of pure reason applied to motion."
- Angela Carter, "The Lady of the House of Love"
 

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