Re: Oops, bloody cyclists ...

  • Thread starter The Older Gentleman
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The Older Gentleman

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Trevor A Panther <[email protected]> wrote:

> I cycle daily and manage about 4-5000 miles a year and I see an awful lot ( a
> hell of a lot!) of POB's ( pratts on bicycles) ignoring traffic lights and
> cycling on pavements causing chaos in their wake.


Oh yes.
>
> I even see a lot of, what I consider to be, cyclists also ignoring traffic
> lights and putting themselves at risk. And of course the gutter huggers
> sidling up the inside of vehicles at the same traffic lights instead of
> waiting in line in the prime position.
>
> I cannot take the "holier than thou attitude" expressed by many cyclists which
> automatically assumes that the cyclist is always the innocent party.


It seems to stem from the 'environmental' thing. "Look at me! I'm being
ecological!".
>
> And don't dare make a comment to any of these miscreants because you will
> generally get the same mouthful a verbal abuse hurled at you as you do from
> anyone else on the road! Sadly we live in a society that is almost totally
> self centred.


Agree here. It's not just cyclists.
>
> All that being said I do find, on a daily basis, that I experience "incidents"
> "near misses" while cycling on road. There are vehicle drivers who just
> "chance it" a lot, there are a few ( very few, but too many) who deliberately
> will close a cyclist down. And dare I say it there are a huge amount of
> traffic light jumpers -- it seems to be becoming the standard thing to do --
> never mind going through on amber I have watched several vehicles at a time
> driving fast through reds. I live about 100 metres from a busy crossroads and
> see it every time I stand and watch. The "chance it brigade"!


And agree here, too. Nowadays, when the lights turn green, I *always*
give a quick check both ways before starting off, because all too often
there's some prat (not just a cyclist, but car and van drivers too)
prepared to jump the red.

Oddly, I might just have got caught by a red light camera myself today,
on my little 1974 125. Honking up to the lights, which started to
change, applied brakes, and realised that 1974 single leading shoe drums
weren't going to stop me in time, so I whacked open the throttle
instead. I went across the line *just* as the lights turned red: might
have been a millisecond before, might have been a millisecond after, We
shall see whether a buff envelope drops through the letterbox.

Memo to self: remember to ride within limits of SOB brakes.

--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:14:55 +0000, [email protected]
(The Older Gentleman) said in
<1idhddm.g36b9k1dpmlv8N%[email protected]>:

>> I cannot take the "holier than thou attitude" expressed by many cyclists which
>> automatically assumes that the cyclist is always the innocent party.


>It seems to stem from the 'environmental' thing. "Look at me! I'm being
>ecological!".


Also the vulnerability thing. There's an interesting book called
"one false move" by Hillman and Whitelegg which shows how in some
countries children are encouraged to be independently mobile, and
adults are expected to apply extra care around them, whereas in
others they are taught to get out of the way of the fast and
dangerous motor cars. This of course becomes worse as those brought
up in the culture of deference to the car themselves become drivers.

In my experience, lorry drivers are amongst the most careful and
courteous on the roads (with the usual exceptions of course),
because they have been trained to be aware of their size and
potential to harm.

It does not seem to me to be especially problematic to require a
higher standard of care from those whose mode of transport poses
more danger to others.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:

> In my experience, lorry drivers are amongst the most careful and
> courteous on the roads (with the usual exceptions of course),
> because they have been trained to be aware of their size and
> potential to harm.


Funny, that. I'd tend to agree. And as I have a full HGV licence, I'd
agree with what you say re their size and potential to harm. It was
dinned into me.

As was the other sine qua non of big truck driving: "maintain progress".
You're taught to keep the damn thing moving at all costs, rather than
stop, and that in turn teaches anticipation of road conditions and
traffic behaviour like no other.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 
Andy Bonwick <[email protected]> wrote:

> you just know that one will be an Irish HGV driver who's
> piece of **** truck will do 63mph so he just indicates and pulls over
> creating his own little procession


So true.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:04:34 +0000, [email protected]
(The Older Gentleman) said in
<1idhg3o.lyrsp11rzuwwN%[email protected]>:

>As was the other sine qua non of big truck driving: "maintain progress".
>You're taught to keep the damn thing moving at all costs, rather than
>stop, and that in turn teaches anticipation of road conditions and
>traffic behaviour like no other.


Ah, yes, anticipation. A sadly under-appreciated skill, and one I
find tends to improve the more I cycle (since we have the same
problem as HGVs: getting moving from a standing start is just hard
work). This probably brings us full circle, of course, since that's
why cyclists are more likely to jump a red :)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:14:55 +0000 in uk.rec.motorcycles, The Older
Gentleman says:

>And agree here, too. Nowadays, when the lights turn green, I *always*
>give a quick check both ways before starting off, because all too often
>there's some prat (not just a cyclist, but car and van drivers too)
>prepared to jump the red.


AOL. The other thing I find I have to watch is that when the lights
are in the process of changing as I approach a check behind is needed
to make sure that as I stop I don't get shunted by some idiot. Who
assumes that I won't stop and therefore nor will s/he. I've had
various rude words mouthed from behind because I've stopped on a red
before now.


>I went across the line *just* as the lights turned red: might
>have been a millisecond before, might have been a millisecond after, We
>shall see whether a buff envelope drops through the letterbox.


I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.

--
Ian
spam http://www.justgiving.com/ianblakeley
 
On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:04:34 +0000, [email protected] (The
Older Gentleman) squeezed out the following:

>Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In my experience, lorry drivers are amongst the most careful and
>> courteous on the roads (with the usual exceptions of course),
>> because they have been trained to be aware of their size and
>> potential to harm.

>
>Funny, that. I'd tend to agree. And as I have a full HGV licence, I'd
>agree with what you say re their size and potential to harm. It was
>dinned into me.
>
>As was the other sine qua non of big truck driving: "maintain progress".
>You're taught to keep the damn thing moving at all costs, rather than
>stop, and that in turn teaches anticipation of road conditions and
>traffic behaviour like no other.


I wasn't taught as such, but I learnt the same thing driving our old
Bedford horsebox. Anticipation is everything, and you learn to make
use of all the road signs. And you give all other road users, not
least cyclists, a wide berth because you really don't want to have to
brake hard if someone does something unexpected.

--
Colin Irvine
YZF1000R BOF#33 BONY#34 COFF#06 BHaLC#5
http://www.colinandpat.co.uk
 
On 08/03/2008 12:49, [email protected] said,

> I've had
> various rude words mouthed from behind because I've stopped on a red
> before now.


I'll AOL as well on that one :)

> I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
> reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
> longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.


I've no idea whether or not there is a delay, but in my opinion there
should be none. The lights go amber first, and the idea is that road
users stop at amber if they can safely do so. By the time the lights
are red, the amber warning has been lit for long enough for traffic to
be stopped. The problem is that lights are too often seen as green for
go, amber for go, red for "let's chance it".

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
> reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
> longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.


If memory serves it *was* two seconds when they were first introduced, but
now it's one second longer on the amber phase then one second past red
triggers it.


--
Dan White
([email protected])
Perform an exorcism when replying.
 
On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:03:55 +0000 in uk.rec.motorcycles, Paul Boyd
says:

>On 08/03/2008 12:49, [email protected] said,
>
>> I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
>> reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
>> longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.

>
>I've no idea whether or not there is a delay, but in my opinion there
>should be none.


I don't disagree, IIRC it was to do with not catching those still
legally crossing wherever the lights controlled and to be dead sure
that someone on camera was bang to rights.

I see Dan has answered about his recollection of the two second delay.
I've had a quick google but didn't find anything that suggests there
is a delay before activation.


--
Ian
spam http://www.justgiving.com/ianblakeley
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
>
> I see Dan has answered about his recollection of the two second delay.
> I've had a quick google but didn't find anything that suggests there
> is a delay before activation.


The only reference I can find now suggests a "grace period" of "up to half a
second", but seeing as that's on Wikipedia it's probably bollocks ;-)


--
Dan White
([email protected])
Perform an exorcism when replying.
 
The Older Gentleman wrote:

> And agree here, too. Nowadays, when the lights turn green, I always
> give a quick check both ways before starting off, because all too
> often there's some prat (not just a cyclist, but car and van drivers
> too) prepared to jump the red.


We weren't stood .. the lights had turned green for me well before I
crossed. I was effectively just proceeding along the road. Laddo Also
can't have been stood, he was going at some pace. Neither of us quite
had time to stop, but it was close.

--
Paul - ***

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch'
'98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed'
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough'
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> ... cyclists are ... likely to jump a red :)



I can't remember whether that's the first time you've admitted that.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:14:55 +0000 in uk.rec.motorcycles, The Older
> Gentleman says:
>
>> And agree here, too. Nowadays, when the lights turn green, I *always*
>> give a quick check both ways before starting off, because all too often
>> there's some prat (not just a cyclist, but car and van drivers too)
>> prepared to jump the red.

>
> AOL. The other thing I find I have to watch is that when the lights
> are in the process of changing as I approach a check behind is needed
> to make sure that as I stop I don't get shunted by some idiot. Who
> assumes that I won't stop and therefore nor will s/he. I've had
> various rude words mouthed from behind because I've stopped on a red
> before now.
>
>
>> I went across the line *just* as the lights turned red: might
>> have been a millisecond before, might have been a millisecond after, We
>> shall see whether a buff envelope drops through the letterbox.

>
> I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
> reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
> longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.


He'll certainly be OK if the camera didn't flash - twice. As you say,
there is a delay - though I doubt it's as long as 2 seconds.

Two seconds does seem to have a traffic-light significance though,
especially in London. I think it's the maximum time on green. If it were
any longer, two vehicles might get through, and Mad Ken can't be doing
with that.
 
Dan White wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> <snip>
>> I see Dan has answered about his recollection of the two second delay.
>> I've had a quick google but didn't find anything that suggests there
>> is a delay before activation.

>
> The only reference I can find now suggests a "grace period" of "up to half a
> second", but seeing as that's on Wikipedia it's probably bollocks ;-)
>
>

ISTR a ChiefPlod on the radio a while ago stating that if traffic flow
is moving below a certain speed that the red light cameras somehow sense
this and don't go off.

IASTR that I didn't believe him, so I don't know why I've just gone to
the bother of typing this out. I think I'll press "Send" anyway.



--
Pete M - OMF#9
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Scorpio Ultima 24v
"Professional Petrolhead"