Re: OT Anorexia vs. Obesity



J

John

Guest
On 14 Dec 2004 23:33:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>
>I read it again, and it confirms what I recall of it from before, 2 lb of
>eggs fits the diet. I also confirmed that no consideration is given to
>the vast range in calories 2 lbs can have,ie. eggs and cabbage, and that
>no consideration is given to food choieces with regard to health and
>nutrition goals. These are ignored, read previously, read again, match.
>Simply saying it would be an egg diet if one chose your diet and decided,
>after considering all the parameters provided, to eat eggs is a strawman.
>Now we have cleared up the fatal flaws with the current version, let's
>roll up our shirt sleves and get down to building on your observation and
>makeing it finally a complete diet that considers calorie content and
>other vital health and nutrition goals. Let's talk soon.


I'm looking forward to this reading about this talk. Let's start
right after you can find someone who would/could eat nothing but eggs
every day the rest of their life.

The 2PD is described in about one page of text. Recipes and menus are
not discussed at all. Rather, Dr. Chung simply calls for us to use a
just a little bit of common sense. He also calls for us to consult
our doctors who, presumably, would offer some detailed nutritional
advice if we appear to be in need of it. In my case, I rely on my
spouse who has about 30 feet of bookshelf space filled with cookbooks
to come up with a nutritious menu plan. I rely on my self (with God's
help) to exercise the necessary self control to limit myself to 2PD of
whatever wonderful stuff she comes up with. I'm not having any
trouble doing this. It's an interesting challenge but fun. Looking
in a closet, I just found some really nice ski pants that I haven't
been able to put on in about 10 years. I have several pairs of brand
new Wranglers, size 38x32, on the shelf that I bought right about when
I started this. I guess I'm never going to get to wear them. Oh,
well.

John
 
D

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

Guest
John wrote:
>
> On 14 Dec 2004 23:33:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >
> >I read it again, and it confirms what I recall of it from before, 2 lb of
> >eggs fits the diet. I also confirmed that no consideration is given to
> >the vast range in calories 2 lbs can have,ie. eggs and cabbage, and that
> >no consideration is given to food choieces with regard to health and
> >nutrition goals. These are ignored, read previously, read again, match.
> >Simply saying it would be an egg diet if one chose your diet and decided,
> >after considering all the parameters provided, to eat eggs is a strawman.
> >Now we have cleared up the fatal flaws with the current version, let's
> >roll up our shirt sleves and get down to building on your observation and
> >makeing it finally a complete diet that considers calorie content and
> >other vital health and nutrition goals. Let's talk soon.

>
> I'm looking forward to this reading about this talk. Let's start
> right after you can find someone who would/could eat nothing but eggs
> every day the rest of their life.
>
> The 2PD is described in about one page of text. Recipes and menus are
> not discussed at all. Rather, Dr. Chung simply calls for us to use a
> just a little bit of common sense. He also calls for us to consult
> our doctors who, presumably, would offer some detailed nutritional
> advice if we appear to be in need of it. In my case, I rely on my
> spouse who has about 30 feet of bookshelf space filled with cookbooks
> to come up with a nutritious menu plan. I rely on my self (with God's
> help) to exercise the necessary self control to limit myself to 2PD of
> whatever wonderful stuff she comes up with. I'm not having any
> trouble doing this. It's an interesting challenge but fun. Looking
> in a closet, I just found some really nice ski pants that I haven't
> been able to put on in about 10 years. I have several pairs of brand
> new Wranglers, size 38x32, on the shelf that I bought right about when
> I started this. I guess I'm never going to get to wear them. Oh,
> well.
>
> John



The Salvation Army could benefit from the oversized clothes that you
presently have among the things you presently steward :)

Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory
(http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D13B21FF9
 
M

MU

Guest
> On 14 Dec 2004 23:33:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>>I read it again, and it confirms what I recall of it from before, 2 lb of
>>eggs fits the diet. I also confirmed that no consideration is given to
>>the vast range in calories 2 lbs can have,ie. eggs and cabbage, and that
>>no consideration is given to food choieces with regard to health and
>>nutrition goals. These are ignored, read previously, read again, match.
>>Simply saying it would be an egg diet if one chose your diet and decided,
>>after considering all the parameters provided, to eat eggs is a strawman.
>>Now we have cleared up the fatal flaws with the current version, let's
>>roll up our shirt sleves and get down to building on your observation and
>>makeing it finally a complete diet that considers calorie content and
>>other vital health and nutrition goals. Let's talk soon.


On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:48:56 -0700, John wrote:

> I'm looking forward to this reading about this talk. Let's start
> right after you can find someone who would/could eat nothing but eggs
> every day the rest of their life.


John, you certainly can do as you wish but I'm so far past being interested
in people like this goober. There are two things I look for in a
discussion about the 2PDiet that immediately turn me off. 1) this
ridiculous "what if you eat every day two pounds of <insert>" mentality.
Bzzzt. Goober identified. Argument for the sake of argument.

2) "Uh, can you have <insert> on the 2PD or <insert> foods are not listed.
It's not a nutritional woe." Bzzzt. Goober identified. Hasn't read the
single page of text. Argument for the sake of argument.

There are a few other inane identifiers but you get the drift.

Outside of those that are truly, mentally clueless, the rest of these
goobers ought to buy a mirror, stand in front of it, and wage war....with
themselves.

I can tell you one thing. Take Christ out of these discussions, I'll bet
9/10ths of them go away. Christianity really pisses ppl off. Discussing
Christ, not religion, but Christ makes most of the world uneasy and
insecure.
 
D

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

Guest
MU wrote:
>
> > On 14 Dec 2004 23:33:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>I read it again, and it confirms what I recall of it from before, 2 lb of
> >>eggs fits the diet. I also confirmed that no consideration is given to
> >>the vast range in calories 2 lbs can have,ie. eggs and cabbage, and that
> >>no consideration is given to food choieces with regard to health and
> >>nutrition goals. These are ignored, read previously, read again, match.
> >>Simply saying it would be an egg diet if one chose your diet and decided,
> >>after considering all the parameters provided, to eat eggs is a strawman.
> >>Now we have cleared up the fatal flaws with the current version, let's
> >>roll up our shirt sleves and get down to building on your observation and
> >>makeing it finally a complete diet that considers calorie content and
> >>other vital health and nutrition goals. Let's talk soon.

>
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:48:56 -0700, John wrote:
>
> > I'm looking forward to this reading about this talk. Let's start
> > right after you can find someone who would/could eat nothing but eggs
> > every day the rest of their life.

>
> John, you certainly can do as you wish but I'm so far past being interested
> in people like this goober. There are two things I look for in a
> discussion about the 2PDiet that immediately turn me off. 1) this
> ridiculous "what if you eat every day two pounds of <insert>" mentality.
> Bzzzt. Goober identified. Argument for the sake of argument.
>
> 2) "Uh, can you have <insert> on the 2PD or <insert> foods are not listed.
> It's not a nutritional woe." Bzzzt. Goober identified. Hasn't read the
> single page of text. Argument for the sake of argument.
>
> There are a few other inane identifiers but you get the drift.
>
> Outside of those that are truly, mentally clueless, the rest of these
> goobers ought to buy a mirror, stand in front of it, and wage war....with
> themselves.
>
> I can tell you one thing. Take Christ out of these discussions, I'll bet
> 9/10ths of them go away. Christianity really pisses ppl off. Discussing
> Christ, not religion, but Christ makes most of the world uneasy and
> insecure.



And so here we are as His salt and light in this world.

Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory
(http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D13B21FF9
 
M

MU

Guest

>> I can tell you one thing. Take Christ out of these discussions, I'll bet
>> 9/10ths of them go away. Christianity really pisses ppl off. Discussing
>> Christ, not religion, but Christ makes most of the world uneasy and
>> insecure.


On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:47:23 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> And so here we are as His salt and light in this world.


I may be more salt than light but that is the way I read Christ. A lot of
****, vinegar, humanity, a powerful combination. Even if you took the
Father out of the Son, the Man is an incredible read.

Have you ever thought about how it might have been to actually have lived
in His time, walked by His side? I have. I cannot imagine it in a real life
sense.

I wanted to get north to Israel but flew by only. I am not certain I can do
that without a sense of awe that might be overwhelming.
 
I read the instructions long ago, they were in a different fortmat but had
the same info as now. Goober, aka peanut, 5312 calories for 2 lbs, nope
don't work and still misses many health and nutrition goals. As
mentioned, personal attack is the last refuge of a scoundral, famious
person. It is argument for the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
When Andrew and I get the flaws ironed out of what was his intresting
observation, then we can argue against all others for will we will have
the truth.

John, you certainly can do as you wish but I'm so far past being
interested
in people like this goober. There are two things I look for in a
discussion about the 2PDiet that immediately turn me off. 1) this
ridiculous "what if you eat every day two pounds of <insert>" mentality.
Bzzzt. Goober identified. Argument for the sake of argument.

2) "Uh, can you have <insert> on the 2PD or <insert> foods are not listed.
It's not a nutritional woe." Bzzzt. Goober identified. Hasn't read
thesingle page of text. Argument for the sake of argument.

There are a few other inane identifiers but you get the drift.

Outside of those that are truly, mentally clueless, the rest of these
goobers ought to buy a mirror, stand in front of it, and wage war....with
themselves.
 
"I'm looking forward to this reading about this talk. Let's start
right after you can find someone who would/could eat nothing but eggs
every day the rest of their life.

The 2PD is described in about one page of text. Recipes and menus are
not discussed at all. Rather, Dr. Chung simply calls for us to use a
just a little bit of common sense. He also calls for us to consult
our doctors who, presumably, would offer some detailed nutritional
advice if we appear to be in need of it."

I too am looking forward to the very promising work that can be built on
his intresting observation. There is a rather well known case of a man
who eats 25 eggs every day. He is known because he has been the subject
of studies about the effect of nutritional fat on blood lipid profiles.
Some people who subsist on the same one or few foods a day would be
overjoyed to use eggs instead. His "instructions" are crude in the
extreme, devoting most space to how to use the scale with a notebook.
Menues etc. is not the question, scientific validity based soley on his
"diet" is the point, and as an intresting side play his word play and
dancing about when he knows the jig is up, so to speak because the flaws
are all too obvious but he can't come to publiclly admit them. Reference
to "doctor" is, in addition to himself of course, are advice to take the
record to the doctor and to see one if symptoms of low bp persist. My
intrest is scientific truthfulness and concern for health and nutritional
aspects the diet ignores. Bty, the "tell your doctor" is proabably in
part a concern for liability, don't you think? Don't rush to judgement,
let's see what he and I develope, pray for us.
 
J

John

Guest
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:33:52 -0500, MU <[email protected]> wrote:

>> On 14 Dec 2004 23:33:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I read it again, and it confirms what I recall of it from before, 2 lb of
>>>eggs fits the diet. I also confirmed that no consideration is given to
>>>the vast range in calories 2 lbs can have,ie. eggs and cabbage, and that
>>>no consideration is given to food choieces with regard to health and
>>>nutrition goals. These are ignored, read previously, read again, match.
>>>Simply saying it would be an egg diet if one chose your diet and decided,
>>>after considering all the parameters provided, to eat eggs is a strawman.
>>>Now we have cleared up the fatal flaws with the current version, let's
>>>roll up our shirt sleves and get down to building on your observation and
>>>makeing it finally a complete diet that considers calorie content and
>>>other vital health and nutrition goals. Let's talk soon.

>
>On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:48:56 -0700, John wrote:
>
>> I'm looking forward to this reading about this talk. Let's start
>> right after you can find someone who would/could eat nothing but eggs
>> every day the rest of their life.

>
>John, you certainly can do as you wish but I'm so far past being interested
>in people like this goober. There are two things I look for in a
>discussion about the 2PDiet that immediately turn me off. 1) this
>ridiculous "what if you eat every day two pounds of <insert>" mentality.
>Bzzzt. Goober identified. Argument for the sake of argument.


Well, I sort of agree with you on this as far as usenet goes, but I've
gotten this same sort of pushback from very dear friends who are/were
morbidly obese who really, really needed to follow this thing. One of
them died last June from a heart attack. Age 47. Brilliant mind.
She had worked for me for 15 years. It really saddens me that I
couldn't get her to even give this a try. Guess what her first
counter was when I told her about 2PD- "yeah, but what if you eat 2
pounds of chocolate a day?" I haven't given up on the other one. He
sees me daily and has watched this 2PD thing work for me. I'm gonna
give him an electronic food scale (like mine) for Christmas. ;-)

>2) "Uh, can you have <insert> on the 2PD or <insert> foods are not listed.
>It's not a nutritional woe." Bzzzt. Goober identified. Hasn't read the
>single page of text. Argument for the sake of argument.
>
>There are a few other inane identifiers but you get the drift.


"Yeah, but there is no nutritional guidance."

>Outside of those that are truly, mentally clueless, the rest of these
>goobers ought to buy a mirror, stand in front of it, and wage war....with
>themselves.


Sometimes I think it is the fault finding tendency we see so much of
these days, i.e., whatever happens to you, the fault always lies
elsewhere. "I'm big boned." "It's genetic." "I'm unhappy because of
that old so and so, and so I eat."

>I can tell you one thing. Take Christ out of these discussions, I'll bet
>9/10ths of them go away. Christianity really pisses ppl off. Discussing
>Christ, not religion, but Christ makes most of the world uneasy and
>insecure.


Well, that's for sure. Lots of the opposition seems to come from
those who have no stake in the issue except to oppose a Christian or
inclusion of a Christian thought in a posting.

Joy to the world, the Lord is come.
Let earth receive her King.

John
 
J

John

Guest
On 15 Dec 2004 20:11:03 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>"I'm looking forward to this reading about this talk. Let's start
>right after you can find someone who would/could eat nothing but eggs
>every day the rest of their life.
>
>The 2PD is described in about one page of text. Recipes and menus are
>not discussed at all. Rather, Dr. Chung simply calls for us to use a
>just a little bit of common sense. He also calls for us to consult
>our doctors who, presumably, would offer some detailed nutritional
>advice if we appear to be in need of it."
>
>I too am looking forward to the very promising work that can be built on
>his intresting observation. There is a rather well known case of a man
>who eats 25 eggs every day. He is known because he has been the subject
>of studies about the effect of nutritional fat on blood lipid profiles.


Well, I guess this just goes to show that you have to be careful what
you ask for - you just might get it. ;-)

I found this
http://snowwhite.med.upenn.edu/lewis/problems/Problem_16.pdf on
Google. Interesting story but it doesn't quite meet requirements.
Sorry. Like the guy would have to be over 100 years old today so it
is unlikely that we can study him any more. It also mentions that it
was never recorded whether the 25 egg man subsisted _solely_ on the 25
eggs per day. Also called into question is the man's psychological
condition.

On the other hand, he was following the 2PD and he was not in the
overweight category and seemed healthy. So maybe he is at least an
"existence proof" that it won't necessarily kill you to follow 2PD
even in the extreme. ;-)

>Some people who subsist on the same one or few foods a day would be
>overjoyed to use eggs instead. His "instructions" are crude in the
>extreme, devoting most space to how to use the scale with a notebook.
>Menues etc. is not the question, scientific validity based soley on his
>"diet" is the point, and as an intresting side play his word play and
>dancing about when he knows the jig is up, so to speak because the flaws
>are all too obvious but he can't come to publiclly admit them. Reference
>to "doctor" is, in addition to himself of course, are advice to take the
>record to the doctor and to see one if symptoms of low bp persist. My
>intrest is scientific truthfulness and concern for health and nutritional
>aspects the diet ignores.


Don't get too wrapped up in this. After all, the diet is really just
advice to "eat less." Common sense (that doesn't seem to be so common
any more.) That, together with some very practical instructions on
how to go about it in a methodical manner and some guidance about how
much less you should shoot for. It seems to me that all the other
diets are the ones that need to do some scientific proving. As Dr.
Chung says, "Truth is simple."

>Bty, the "tell your doctor" is proabably in
>part a concern for liability, don't you think?


Don't diet programs usually recommend that you see your doctor?

>Don't rush to judgement,
>let's see what he and I develope, pray for us.


Already been done. ;-)

John
 
T

Tom

Guest
"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 14 Dec 2004 23:33:55 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> I'm looking forward to this reading about this talk. Let's start
> right after you can find someone who would/could eat nothing but eggs
> every day the rest of their life.
> John



Check out case #15 about 3/4 of the way down.
http://www.saltspring.com/capewest/pbl.htm

Perhaps Dr. Chung has access to these medical journals and can help you.
It's( New England Journal of Medicine 324:896-900 )

Here is a student study problem based on the same man. It has a little more
info.
http://snowwhite.med.upenn.edu/lewis/problems/Problem_16.pdf

The uniqueness about this case is that in fact 25 eggs per day is all the
man ate. The problem with studying him, was that he refused to eat anything
else. Therefore it could not be determined if low cholesterol was a genetic
trait or whether it really is true that eating that many eggs does not in
fact raise a person's own levels because of digestion and conversion. It's
another one of those things that people say can't be done, but here is an
old man(88yrs old) who did it.
Tom
 
I fail to see any of the below relevant to your original of an example of
eggs eaten. I also note another poster provided info saying he indeed ate
only eggs, didn't confirm it. See my recent post where a biscuit with
bacon and cheese and egg is used to illustrate the obvious flaws in the 2
lb diet as it is presented, "just don't exceed 2 lbs in what you eat".
Fyi, 25 eggs is more then 2 lbs, Andrew knows all I say is correct and in
a recent post he finally goes to some length to detail how he modifies it
in practice according to some of the flaws I have pointed out in posts
here, he knows, believe me he knows.

"Google. Interesting story but it doesn't quite meet requirements. Sorry.
Like the guy would have to be over 100 years old today so it is unlikely
that we can study him any more. It also mentions that it was never
recorded whether the 25 egg man subsisted _solely_ on the 25 eggs per day.
Also called into question is the man's psychological condition.
On the other hand, he was following the 2PD and he was not in the
overweight category and seemed healthy. So maybe he is at least an
"existence proof" that it won't necessarily kill you to follow 2PD
even in the extreme. ;-)
 
"The 2PD Approach is not extreme though it may be dovetailed with
something that is (i.e. the Egg diet in this example)."

Thank you, this example of how the diet is deficient, in addition to the
several other examples you provide in another post, shows how progress can
occur when we cooperate. Just saying to ignore thedetails and use weight
only is not enough, as you and I are now expoloring in order to fully
realize the potential of your intresting observation. As you list in that
other post, a great amount of detail must in practice be considered for
the caloric and health and nutrition needs of each person, the weight
constraint is only a starting place.
 
D

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I fail to see any of the below relevant to your original of an example of
> eggs eaten. I also note another poster provided info saying he indeed ate
> only eggs, didn't confirm it. See my recent post where a biscuit with
> bacon and cheese and egg is used to illustrate the obvious flaws in the 2
> lb diet as it is presented, "just don't exceed 2 lbs in what you eat".
> Fyi, 25 eggs is more then 2 lbs, Andrew knows all I say is correct and in
> a recent post he finally goes to some length to detail how he modifies it
> in practice according to some of the flaws I have pointed out in posts
> here, he knows, believe me he knows.
>
> "Google. Interesting story but it doesn't quite meet requirements. Sorry.
> Like the guy would have to be over 100 years old today so it is unlikely
> that we can study him any more. It also mentions that it was never
> recorded whether the 25 egg man subsisted _solely_ on the 25 eggs per day.
> Also called into question is the man's psychological condition.
> On the other hand, he was following the 2PD and he was not in the
> overweight category and seemed healthy. So maybe he is at least an
> "existence proof" that it won't necessarily kill you to follow 2PD
> even in the extreme. ;-)


The 2PD Approach is not extreme though it may be dovetailed with
something that is (i.e. the Egg diet in this example).

Hope the above information enlightens you.

Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory
(http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D13B21FF9