Re: OT: I was right, you fucking stupid motherfuckers

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by dust[email protected], Feb 24, 2006.

  1. Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
    > Before this goddam war, I predicted to Bill C., T. Kunich and the like
    > that Iraq would devolve into a civil war if we took out Saddam.
    >
    > Sadly, the inevitable is coming true.
    >
    > Why is this?
    >
    > 1) Iraq has no tradition of democratic institutions, like capitalistic
    > free markets.
    > 2) Iraq does have a tradition of tribalism and sectarian violence
    > 3) Iraq's economy relies on natural resource exploitation (oil)
    > 4) The entire region (Middle East) has no tradition of democratic
    > institutions


    How about:
    5) The "democracy" thing was a sham in the first place. They wanted to
    loot Iraq, and not just the oil, either.

    http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html

    Yeah, yeah, that's from '04. Has anything changed? Are there any
    Iraqi-owned cement plants running yet? There's a lot more to the
    "economy" than oil. Wouldn't "democracy" include local ownership of
    businesses? One of the root causes of the American War of Independence
    was Britain's attempt to forcibly make America into a non-manufacturing
    colony, a supplier of raw materials and consumer of finished goods--
    while extracting a nice profit from the proceedings, of course.
    "Strongly resisted by insurgents".

    Yup, too bad the neocons don't read history... well, they do read
    history. They just don't think it applies to them, too. Well, at least
    until it became unsafe to look like a Westerner on the streets of
    Baghdad, and even the made-in-Turkey Bremer Barriers weren't enough to
    guarantee personal safety.

    This history lesson: "Why sanctions mostly hurt the little people". See
    "Cuba", horsedrawn 1953 Chevy taxis. See also: "Carpetbaggers", US
    Civil War.

    From:
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/Iraq_Heist.html


    <As for projects that might truly benefit Iraqis, the allocations are
    peanuts in many cases, such as $118,200 for housing and construction in
    Basrah, $3,500 to pay the stipends for a Baghdad theater festival, or
    $400,000 for the Ministry of Youth and Sports.

    <What makes Iraqis especially indignant is that theirs is a nation of
    engineers and scientists who are left to watch as the billions in
    reconstruction funds go outside their country. During Iraq's heyday in
    the 1970s Iraqis were known as the Germans of the Middle East for their
    technical prowess.

    <Bechtel, for example, has an omnibus contract for reconstruction, but
    has only provided jobs for 40,000 Iraqis through subcontractors. This
    doesn't even make the barest dent in the 70 percent unemployment rate,
    which has left about 5 million Iraqis unemployed. Rather than rebuild
    Iraq's infrastructure so it can be independent (and likely an economic
    powerhouse in the region), the Bush plan is to sell Iraq's assets off
    like a fire sale.

    <Iraqis can see that their country is being divided among the victors
    and that the only reconstruction taking place is projects that serve
    U.S. security interests. That's what's fueling the resistance, not
    Saddam loyalists or tribal codes of honor.>

    If the "media" were truly "liberal"... --D-y
     
    Tags:


  2. Sandy

    Sandy Guest

    Dans le message de
    news:[email protected],
    [email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
    > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
    >> Before this goddam war, I predicted to Bill C., T. Kunich and the
    >> like that Iraq would devolve into a civil war if we took out Saddam.
    >>
    >> Sadly, the inevitable is coming true.
    >>
    >> Why is this?
    >>
    >> 1) Iraq has no tradition of democratic institutions, like
    >> capitalistic free markets.
    >> 2) Iraq does have a tradition of tribalism and sectarian violence
    >> 3) Iraq's economy relies on natural resource exploitation (oil)
    >> 4) The entire region (Middle East) has no tradition of democratic
    >> institutions

    >
    > How about:
    > 5) The "democracy" thing was a sham in the first place. They wanted to
    > loot Iraq, and not just the oil, either.
    >
    > http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html
    >
    > Yeah, yeah, that's from '04. Has anything changed? Are there any
    > Iraqi-owned cement plants running yet? There's a lot more to the
    > "economy" than oil. Wouldn't "democracy" include local ownership of
    > businesses? One of the root causes of the American War of Independence
    > was Britain's attempt to forcibly make America into a
    > non-manufacturing colony, a supplier of raw materials and consumer of
    > finished goods-- while extracting a nice profit from the proceedings,
    > of course. "Strongly resisted by insurgents".
    >
    > Yup, too bad the neocons don't read history... well, they do read
    > history. They just don't think it applies to them, too. Well, at least
    > until it became unsafe to look like a Westerner on the streets of
    > Baghdad, and even the made-in-Turkey Bremer Barriers weren't enough to
    > guarantee personal safety.
    >
    > This history lesson: "Why sanctions mostly hurt the little people".
    > See "Cuba", horsedrawn 1953 Chevy taxis. See also: "Carpetbaggers", US
    > Civil War.
    >
    > From:
    > http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/Iraq_Heist.html
    >
    >
    > <As for projects that might truly benefit Iraqis, the allocations are
    > peanuts in many cases, such as $118,200 for housing and construction
    > in Basrah, $3,500 to pay the stipends for a Baghdad theater festival,
    > or $400,000 for the Ministry of Youth and Sports.
    >
    > <What makes Iraqis especially indignant is that theirs is a nation of
    > engineers and scientists who are left to watch as the billions in
    > reconstruction funds go outside their country. During Iraq's heyday in
    > the 1970s Iraqis were known as the Germans of the Middle East for
    > their technical prowess.
    >
    > <Bechtel, for example, has an omnibus contract for reconstruction, but
    > has only provided jobs for 40,000 Iraqis through subcontractors. This
    > doesn't even make the barest dent in the 70 percent unemployment rate,
    > which has left about 5 million Iraqis unemployed. Rather than rebuild
    > Iraq's infrastructure so it can be independent (and likely an economic
    > powerhouse in the region), the Bush plan is to sell Iraq's assets off
    > like a fire sale.
    >
    > <Iraqis can see that their country is being divided among the victors
    > and that the only reconstruction taking place is projects that serve
    > U.S. security interests. That's what's fueling the resistance, not
    > Saddam loyalists or tribal codes of honor.>
    >
    > If the "media" were truly "liberal"... --D-y


    Not to barge in, but ...

    Is any of this really news ? It all seems obvious, except that those who
    chose to "believe" the propaganda, didn't. They knew and know full well
    that it is a pretense.

    Also, you may like to look at the USAID budgets, especially for otherwise
    unemployable consultants. One consultant income, plus the usual ex-pat
    stuffis typically 20 times more than the local "consultant" makes. All that
    for useless jobs, prevaricating with fictitious figures. I was once roped
    into that game and got out quick (yes, temporarily uselessly employed).
    That was during the Clinton years, which must be mild at USAID compared to
    today.

    But that, also, should not be news. Sorry for barging.
    --
    Bonne route !

    Sandy
    Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
     
  3. Sandy wrote:
    > Not to barge in, but ...


    Door's open.
    >
    > Is any of this really news ? It all seems obvious, except that those who
    > chose to "believe" the propaganda, didn't. They knew and know full well
    > that it is a pretense.


    News in the sense that Bush still has a positive approval rating at
    all-- IOW, a number greater than, say, one or two percent.

    News in that this info (the Bremer plan, the actual effect of
    sanctions, the apparent lack of concern for getting Iraqi businesses
    back up and running, and so forth, has not been "in the papers" (so
    much for the Liberal Media lie-- but then, a lot of people still
    believe in that one. IOW, they haven't heard the news, either).

    It's such news to Kunich that he hasn't even read it yet, judging by
    his lack of comment, and that after invitation (meant as a challenge).

    > Also, you may like to look at the USAID budgets, especially for otherwise
    > unemployable consultants. One consultant income, plus the usual ex-pat
    > stuffis typically 20 times more than the local "consultant" makes. All that
    > for useless jobs, prevaricating with fictitious figures. I was once roped
    > into that game and got out quick (yes, temporarily uselessly employed).
    > That was during the Clinton years, which must be mild at USAID compared to
    > today.
    >
    > But that, also, should not be news.


    The public (USA) may actually be starting to grasp the idea that Fed.
    budgets are screamingly out of control, while the "little people"
    continue to lose on return of their tax money. Not to mention the
    deliberately squandered budget surplus. And the deliberate looting of
    the S&L's. And the devastation of the Iraqi infrastructure in ODS
    (selective repair by... Haliburton!!!
    <http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1266328,00.html>), and
    hell, even going back to Granpaw Prescott's funding of the Nazis
    (<http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm>).

    So yes, this is "news" to a whole lot of people.

    $.50 says they'll elect Frist. (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9450770/) Well
    there's some news never heard, after the investigation got squashed.

    > Sorry for barging.


    Not at all. Thanks for the chat. Hope it wasn't too drafty. Goddamn,
    let's get the windows open too, shall we? --D-y
     
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