Re: Protein / Fats/ Carbs relative to bodyweight

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by NYC XYZ, Feb 1, 2005.

  1. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Okay, here's my specific problem/issue/question:

    I'm 5'6" and 230 lbs. But I'm still pretty cut and big. Looking at
    me, people think I'm between 170-200 lbs. If I got back on my
    "regimen" from like ten years ago when I was in my best shape ever (not
    counting Army Infantry -- that was a unique set of circumstances, shall
    we say), I'd be bouncing between 185 and 195. At this time, I was
    eating McD's, potato chips, etc., every other day and didn't feel too
    bad (always thought I would run faster if only I were ten pounds
    lighter, though...).

    Right now, however, I'm at the office all day in front of a keyboard.
    I've been working out, lifting and jogging, three times a week for a
    month now. What kind of a caloric & protein intake would you recommend
    for such a situation?
     
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  2. "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Okay, here's my specific problem/issue/question:
    >
    > I'm 5'6" and 230 lbs. But I'm still pretty cut and big. Looking at
    > me, people think I'm between 170-200 lbs. If I got back on my
    > "regimen" from like ten years ago when I was in my best shape ever
    > (not
    > counting Army Infantry -- that was a unique set of circumstances,
    > shall
    > we say), I'd be bouncing between 185 and 195. At this time, I was
    > eating McD's, potato chips, etc., every other day and didn't feel too
    > bad (always thought I would run faster if only I were ten pounds
    > lighter, though...).
    >
    > Right now, however, I'm at the office all day in front of a keyboard.
    > I've been working out, lifting and jogging, three times a week for a
    > month now. What kind of a caloric & protein intake would you
    > recommend
    > for such a situation?


    Everyone's different and it would be foolish for me to make a
    recommendation for specific calories and content based only on what
    you've said, but I will make a suggestion - use http://www.fitday.com or
    similar and track what you eat for a week or two. That will give you
    what we call "maintenance", the kind of eating that keeps you where you
    are.

    Come back in a week or two and post total calories as well as a notional
    breakdown. Also post your lifting program, including exercises and/or
    machines, sets, reps, and the like, and also what you mean by
    "jogging" - distance, time, any personal bests you may have to give us
    an idea of what level of exertion you've been jogging at (or heart rate
    data if you have that). Last but not least, have your body fat
    percentage checked. If you want to do it yourself, either buy a set of
    calipers or use a hand-held electronic device like the one Omron makes -
    scales are notoriously inaccurate for this. Armed with your current
    diet, your current exercise schedule, and your current bodyfat
    percentage - and give us your age as well - we can start to make some
    specific recommendations about things to try.

    Sorry to make it more complicated but Usenet advice is suspect, anyway.
    If you want a fighting chance at getting some advice you can use, you've
    got to supply the necessary details.

    Last but not least, if you read up on protein consumption, you'll find a
    lot of people recommend 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight if the
    goal is increasing muscle mass, less, perhaps 1 gram per kilogram of
    bodyweight for maintaining muscle while lifting weights regularly. And
    if you read up on dieting, you'll find that ~500 calories per day
    deficit (figure your maintenance first then subtract 500) is often
    recommended for slow, steady weight loss.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com
     
  3. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Thanks -- I figured it was a bunch of work, and was only wondering if
    there are any general principles (which you've helpfully outlined).

    It's weird...I'm not eating anywhere near 230g of protein a day, but
    I'm now benching [email protected] after a month in the gym...this is what I don't
    get...sounds like I'm capable of much more, if only I'd feed myself!

    How many oz. of steak/chicken/salmon makes for 230g?? I'm really
    curious now if I can grow these muscles (notieceably) more without
    supplements.


    And thanks for the link!!
     
  4. Dan Cosley

    Dan Cosley Guest

  5. "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Thanks -- I figured it was a bunch of work, and was only wondering if
    > there are any general principles (which you've helpfully outlined).
    >
    > It's weird...I'm not eating anywhere near 230g of protein a day, but
    > I'm now benching [email protected] after a month in the gym...this is what I
    > don't
    > get...sounds like I'm capable of much more, if only I'd feed myself!


    For what you're trying to do, which is mostly lose weight, you don't
    need anywhere 230 grams of protein. The actual target ought to be based
    on lean body mass, not total bodyweight. I'd say 100 grams of protein
    is probably enough for now, maybe 150 if you're really trying to pack on
    the muscle at some point down the road, but that shouldn't be your first
    focus now, losing weight should, in my opinion.

    And, with all due respect, bodyweight for two reps in the bench press
    isn't surprising. My experience is that bodyweight is pretty easy to
    achieve but it starts to get harder fairly soon after that. Given that
    you're pretty strong and muscular already from the sound of things, I
    imagine your bench will keep going up, but I strongly suggest you focus
    on the deadlift or squat, not the bench press, as your main lift.
    American seem obsessed with the bench press for reasons beyond my
    understanding.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com


    > How many oz. of steak/chicken/salmon makes for 230g?? I'm really
    > curious now if I can grow these muscles (notieceably) more without
    > supplements.
    >
    >
    > And thanks for the link!!
    >
     
  6. John

    John Guest

    "Ignoramus23553" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:15:25 -0500, Steve Freides

    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > ... good thoughts on overestimating protein needs skipped ..
    >
    > > And, with all due respect, bodyweight for two reps in the bench press
    > > isn't surprising. My experience is that bodyweight is pretty easy to
    > > achieve but it starts to get harder fairly soon after that. Given that
    > > you're pretty strong and muscular already from the sound of things, I
    > > imagine your bench will keep going up, but I strongly suggest you focus
    > > on the deadlift or squat, not the bench press, as your main lift.
    > > American seem obsessed with the bench press for reasons beyond my
    > > understanding.

    >
    > I am curious about something. I would like to estimate how much I can
    > bench press. The trouble is that I do not go to a gym.


    Go to the gym.
     
  7. TonySeb

    TonySeb Guest

    The more protein one eats, the more sulfuric acid the body produces.
    Without balancing that increased sulfuric acid produced with base
    (bicarbonate) production, body fluids become more acidic (increased
    metabolic acidosis). Increased metabolic acidosis has numerous
    negative health consequences, including stimulation of muscle protein
    breakdown, limiting muscle growth. To increase base production without
    increasing caloric intake one must eliminate cereal grains (calories,
    plus they produce acid) and energy-dense nutrient poor foods (separated
    fats and oils, refined sugars), and substitute non-grain plant foods
    (vegetables and fruits).
     
  8. Larry Hodges

    Larry Hodges Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Thanks -- I figured it was a bunch of work, and was only wondering if
    > there are any general principles (which you've helpfully outlined).
    >
    > It's weird...I'm not eating anywhere near 230g of protein a day, but
    > I'm now benching [email protected] after a month in the gym...this is what I
    > don't get...sounds like I'm capable of much more, if only I'd feed
    > myself!
    >
    > How many oz. of steak/chicken/salmon makes for 230g?? I'm really
    > curious now if I can grow these muscles (notieceably) more without
    > supplements.
    >
    >
    > And thanks for the link!!


    Why are you against supplements?
    --
    -Larry
     
  9. biochem

    biochem Guest

    TonySeb wrote:
    > The more protein one eats, the more sulfuric acid the body produces.
    > Without balancing that increased sulfuric acid produced with base
    > (bicarbonate) production, body fluids become more acidic (increased
    > metabolic acidosis). Increased metabolic acidosis has numerous
    > negative health consequences, including stimulation of muscle protein
    > breakdown, limiting muscle growth. To increase base production without
    > increasing caloric intake one must eliminate cereal grains (calories,
    > plus they produce acid) and energy-dense nutrient poor foods (separated
    > fats and oils, refined sugars), and substitute non-grain plant foods
    > (vegetables and fruits).
    >


    There is good support for your last sentence here:

    American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 76, No. 6, 1308-1316,
    December 2002
    Estimation of the net acid load of the diet of ancestral preagricultural
    Homo sapiens and their hominid ancestors
    Anthony Sebastian, Lynda A Frassetto, Deborah E Sellmeyer, Renée L
    Merriam and R Curtis Morris, Jr

    free full paper:

    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/6/1308



    --
    evidence-based skin care forum
    http://www.biochemistryofbeauty.com/phpBB/index.php
     
  10. Sam

    Sam Guest

    Sulfuric acid?
    "TonySeb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > The more protein one eats, the more sulfuric acid the body produces.
    > Without balancing that increased sulfuric acid produced with base
    > (bicarbonate) production, body fluids become more acidic (increased
    > metabolic acidosis). Increased metabolic acidosis has numerous
    > negative health consequences, including stimulation of muscle protein
    > breakdown, limiting muscle growth. To increase base production without
    > increasing caloric intake one must eliminate cereal grains (calories,
    > plus they produce acid) and energy-dense nutrient poor foods (separated
    > fats and oils, refined sugars), and substitute non-grain plant foods
    > (vegetables and fruits).
    >
     
  11. Larry Hodges <[email protected]> wrote:
    >NYC XYZ wrote:
    >> Thanks -- I figured it was a bunch of work, and was only wondering if
    >> there are any general principles (which you've helpfully outlined).
    >>
    >> It's weird...I'm not eating anywhere near 230g of protein a day, but
    >> I'm now benching [email protected] after a month in the gym...this is what I
    >> don't get...sounds like I'm capable of much more, if only I'd feed
    >> myself!
    >>
    >> How many oz. of steak/chicken/salmon makes for 230g?? I'm really
    >> curious now if I can grow these muscles (notieceably) more without
    >> supplements.
    >>
    >>
    >> And thanks for the link!!

    >
    >Why are you against supplements?


    There are only two arguments against protein supplements
    when used in moderation:

    1. Less thermogenic effect means you can eat less at
    the same energy deficit. Good thing if you're pounding
    calories to gain; not as happy if you're cutting calories
    to lose. I don't find it a problem, as even when losing
    and eating 2300 cal in 5 meals per day, with 1-2 meals
    using powder for much of their protein, I rarely feel
    hungry, and cut fat right on schedule.

    2. The chemical composition of them is iffy. They're not
    regulated by anything but consumer preference, and in my
    favorite brand I rarely get two buckets with the quite
    the same smell, color, texture, or flavor. One in 10 is
    just totally off the chart (I return those). I doubt the
    nutritional numbers on the side are within 20% for any
    given batch.

    Neither argument makes me stop. The numbers on the side
    don't mean much since my workout and diet will vary 20%
    on any given day anyway. Over time, the average will out,
    and if my results take an extra week because of noise in
    the system, so be it. I've been fat for over ten years.
    I can spend another month relishing the decline in my belt
    size.

    --Blair
    "Did you know it's made from milk?
    That surprises some surprising people."
     
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