Re: Replace SunTour freewheel w/ Shimano?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by [email protected], Mar 25, 2005.

  1. Strayhorn wrote:
    > Noob seeks advice -
    >
    > Did my usual yard-sale thing last weekend and picked up a very nice
    > Raleigh Super Course for $5. It appears to be a mid-80s vintage with
    > some minor upgrades.
    >
    > Part of the tinkering by the Dreaded Previous Owner (as we call them

    in
    > sports cars circles) was on the 6-speed Suntour freewheel. The lowest


    > gear is an 18, which makes life difficult for an older guy like me

    who
    > lives in a very hilly area.
    >
    > So I guess my options would be to scour the boondocks for old SunTour


    > sprockets in the 24-30 tooth range, or to replace the freewheel
    > altogether. The latter course seems to promise more success.
    >
    > I was looking at the new Shimano "C" type thread-on freewheels,

    11-28.
    > These are apparently new on the market.
    >
    > So the base question is whether this new 7-speed freewheel would

    replace
    > the older SunTour 6-speed. I'm guessing the wheels are Weinmann or
    > Araya, those seem to be the usual choices for Raleigh.
    >
    > Thanks in advance . . .
    >
    > --
    > Strayhorn
    >
    > ³Every time a system is made foolproof - a new class of fool

    emerges.²
    >
    > Prod Harris


    http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?...=&searchbox=&start=1&orderby=price1&pagename=

    Nashbar to the rescue. $14.95 for either a 6 or 7 speed Nashbar
    freewheel. 14-28 for 6 speed or 13-32 for 7 speed. Or Shimano 6 speed
    freewheel for $14.99. 13-34, 14-28, and 14-32. All these freewheels
    have modern shifting ramps and such.

    For $20 your problems are solved. Your biggest problem will be getting
    the old freewheel off.
     
    Tags:


  2. On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:18:48 -0800, russellseaton1 wrote:

    >> Part of the tinkering by the Dreaded Previous Owner (as we call them

    > in
    >> sports cars circles) was on the 6-speed Suntour freewheel. The lowest

    >
    >> gear is an 18, which makes life difficult for an older guy like me

    > who
    >> lives in a very hilly area.
    >>
    >> So I guess my options would be to scour the boondocks for old SunTour

    >
    >> sprockets in the 24-30 tooth range,


    I think you're dreaming there. Finding replacement sprockets was never
    really easy, and by now will be impossible.

    > or to replace the freewheel
    >> altogether. The latter course seems to promise more success.


    It also makes more sense, since it probably has been a long, long time
    since that freewheel saw any oil.

    >> So the base question is whether this new 7-speed freewheel would

    > replace
    >> the older SunTour 6-speed.


    It really depends on how old this 6-speed was. Mid-80s, if it is, would
    mean a 126mm spread, which should give you enough room. But earlier
    6-speeds were actually jammed into space meant for 5-speed freewheels, so
    used "ultra" chains and closer spacing. Those would have 120mm spacing,
    usually. If it is the 120mm spacing (which it probably is not) you would
    have more trouble finding a freewheel that fits. In any event you can
    re-space the rear triangle (especially if it is 126mm) and even use an
    8-speed freewheel, if you can find one.

    > For $20 your problems are solved. Your biggest problem will be getting
    > the old freewheel off.


    That is actually pretty easy, if the threads were greased originally, and
    if you use the right technique. Surprisingly few shop mechanics know the
    technique any more, as I once found out to the detriment of my old
    freewheel.

    Here's what you do. Get a bench vice. Get the right freewheel remover
    tool, which is somewhat brand-specific. Take the quick-release off, put
    the tool on, and put the quick-release back on to hold the tool against
    the freewheel snugly, but not too tightly. Clamp the tool into the vice.
    Grab the tire (it's easier with the tire on), and pull as hard as you can.
    The threads are normal right-hand threads, but if the wheel was used much
    at all the freewheel will be on there very, very tightly. Pull harder. It
    will eventually come loose. Oh, then loosen the quick-release as you
    unscrew the freewheel, or you will break the q/r.

    Trying this without securing the tool to the freewheel can easily round
    off the prongs that grab the freewheel (if it has them, as I think SunTour
    does), and just using a wrench will probably not give you enough leverage,
    leading to kicking the wrench, or hitting it with a big hammer, both of
    which can cause collateral damage.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a
    _`\(,_ | conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  3. >
    > > For $20 your problems are solved. Your biggest problem will be

    getting
    > > the old freewheel off.

    >
    > That is actually pretty easy, if the threads were greased originally,

    and
    > if you use the right technique. Surprisingly few shop mechanics know

    the
    > technique any more, as I once found out to the detriment of my old
    > freewheel.
    >
    > Here's what you do. Get a bench vice. Get the right freewheel

    remover
    > tool, which is somewhat brand-specific. Take the quick-release off,

    put
    > the tool on, and put the quick-release back on to hold the tool

    against
    > the freewheel snugly, but not too tightly. Clamp the tool into the

    vice.
    > Grab the tire (it's easier with the tire on), and pull as hard as you

    can.
    > The threads are normal right-hand threads, but if the wheel was used

    much
    > at all the freewheel will be on there very, very tightly. Pull

    harder. It
    > will eventually come loose. Oh, then loosen the quick-release as you
    > unscrew the freewheel, or you will break the q/r.
    >


    But if you don't have a bench vise and have a 2 prong Suntour tool
    instead of the better 4 prong tool, then getting the freewheel off is
    the hardest part. Spending $10 for a 4 prong tool for this one job
    just didn't make much sense to me recently. And I still would have had
    to find a bench vise somewhere. So I paid the bike shop the $5.30 to
    take it off using their bench vise and 4 prong tool.
     
  4. On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:41:28 -0800, russellseaton1 wrote:

    > But if you don't have a bench vise and have a 2 prong Suntour tool
    > instead of the better 4 prong tool, then getting the freewheel off is
    > the hardest part. Spending $10 for a 4 prong tool for this one job
    > just didn't make much sense to me recently. And I still would have had
    > to find a bench vise somewhere. So I paid the bike shop the $5.30 to
    > take it off using their bench vise and 4 prong tool.


    You're lucky the shop knew what to do. When I made a similar decision,
    the freewheel came back to me in a bag. They had taken the body apart and
    took a pipe wrench to the inside. They said the tool didn't work. I bet
    they tried it without the quick-release, and with said pipe wrench instead
    of a vise.

    Bench vises are good to have around, and are really pretty cheap. Mine
    was especially so, since I inherited it from my father-in-law.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
    _`\(,_ |
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  5. Russell Seaton1 writes:

    > But if you don't have a bench vise and have a 2 prong SunTour tool
    > instead of the better 4 prong tool, then getting the freewheel off
    > is the hardest part. Spending $10 for a 4 prong tool for this one
    > job just didn't make much sense to me recently. And I still would
    > have had to find a bench vise somewhere. So I paid the bike shop
    > the $5.30 to take it off using their bench vise and 4 prong tool.


    The four prong tool is most likely essential for removal. On the
    other hand, if you just get sprockets that suit you from one of the
    bicycle shops that carry them all you need is a pair of "chain whips"

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/chainwhip.html

    To remove the small (first sprocket) to get access to the rest of
    them. When putting this sprocket back on remember to lubricate its
    threads with anti-seize compound and if you get the freewheel off to
    do the same with the its threads. This will make future removal far
    easier than without.

    You don't necessarily need a bench vise. A 12" Crescent wrench will
    also do the trick although it is easier with a bench vise. Don't feel
    compelled to buy one. You can go to your local bicycle shop with the
    four prong remover engaged, held in place by the QR skewer and ask
    them to stick it in their vise and remove it. If you are a regular
    customer, that may be a freebee and you won't need to do that next
    time if you use anti-seize compound.

    Of course, if you plan on dumping the SunTour freewheel then proceed
    as suggested above and have it taken off.

    [email protected]
     
  6. JeffWills

    JeffWills Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > You don't necessarily need a bench vise. A 12" Crescent wrench will
    > also do the trick although it is easier with a bench vise. Don't

    feel
    > compelled to buy one. You can go to your local bicycle shop with the
    > four prong remover engaged, held in place by the QR skewer and ask
    > them to stick it in their vise and remove it. If you are a regular
    > customer, that may be a freebee and you won't need to do that next
    > time if you use anti-seize compound.
    >


    Umm... a clarification. After breaking the freewheel loose with the
    remover (it should spin freely after the first 1/4 to 1/2 turn), remove
    the QR from the assembly. This will keep the freewheel from jamming
    against the tool.

    Jeff
     
  7. Jeff Wills writes:

    >> You don't necessarily need a bench vise. A 12" Crescent wrench
    >> will also do the trick although it is easier with a bench vise.
    >> Don't feel compelled to buy one. You can go to your local bicycle
    >> shop with the four prong remover engaged, held in place by the QR
    >> skewer and ask them to stick it in their vise and remove it. If
    >> you are a regular customer, that may be a freebee and you won't
    >> need to do that next time if you use anti-seize compound.


    > Umm... a clarification. After breaking the freewheel loose with the
    > remover (it should spin freely after the first 1/4 to 1/2 turn),
    > remove the QR from the assembly. This will keep the freewheel from
    > jamming against the tool.


    Yes, correct. The freewheel has a larger thread pitch than the skewer
    and will bind if the skewer is not unscrewed a bit, ahead of the
    exiting freewheel.

    [email protected]
     
  8. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Russell Seaton1 writes:
    >>But if you don't have a bench vise and have a 2 prong SunTour tool
    >>instead of the better 4 prong tool, then getting the freewheel off
    >>is the hardest part. Spending $10 for a 4 prong tool for this one
    >>job just didn't make much sense to me recently. And I still would
    >>have had to find a bench vise somewhere. So I paid the bike shop
    >>the $5.30 to take it off using their bench vise and 4 prong tool.

    >
    >
    > The four prong tool is most likely essential for removal. On the
    > other hand, if you just get sprockets that suit you from one of the
    > bicycle shops that carry them all you need is a pair of "chain whips"
    >
    > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/chainwhip.html
    >
    > To remove the small (first sprocket) to get access to the rest of
    > them. When putting this sprocket back on remember to lubricate its
    > threads with anti-seize compound and if you get the freewheel off to
    > do the same with the its threads.


    Replies to this thread seem to assume the OP has the later model Winner
    Pro freewheel, with only one cog threaded to the freewheel body*, the
    rest splined. Also, it's the Winner Pro that has a four-prong remover.

    Could just as well be a New Winner, where all but the two largest cogs
    are threaded, and there are only two "prong recesses" in the body, so a
    four-prong remover cannot be used.

    Here's how to tell which body: Winner Pro has a gold/bronze face plate
    right around where the axle sticks out past the freewheel, and
    requires/allows a 4-prong remover. New Winner accepts only the two
    prongs, and has a black face w/bearing adjustment capability.

    Note: In an impressive display of backward compatibility, Winner Pros
    accepted threaded cogs OR splined cogs for middle positions. If this
    was a home job by the "previous owner", threaded midlevel cogs are
    possible (I have several Pros set up like this myself - whatever cog works!)

    [*: with an ultra-seven or regular-spaced 6, the two smallest cogs
    thread the gether, the inner of the two threads to the freewheel body]

    Mark
     
  9. Freewheels can be hell to remove. And then sometimes
    their for there for life.
     
  10. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Freewheels can be hell to remove. And then sometimes
    > their for there for life.
    >

    Daunting to a consumer , yes.
    A simple non-event to the professional, with a large vise
    and the proper tools/techniques.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
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