General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Re: Reversing existing amyloid pathology

Started by Alan Meyer · · Last activity · 4 posts · 116 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
10 May 2007
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10 May 2007
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Alan Meyer
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  1. Quoted message said:

    Curcumin labels amyloid pathology in vivo, disrupts existing plaques,
    and partially restores distorted neurites in an Alzheimer mouse
    model.


    ....

    My father-in-law bought a pound or two of turmeric (which
    is a curcuminoid) and boxes of empty capsules. He prepared
    his own high dose capsules of the stuff and fed them in
    considerable quantity to my mother-in-law, who was suffering
    from mild to moderate AD at the time.

    There didn't appear to be any benefit. Her rate of deterioration
    appeared to be pretty much the same.

    That's not to say that turmeric/curcumin is of no benefit,
    just that I don't expect it to be a cure or even a complete
    preventive of the disease.

    Turmeric is cheap and has been used as a spice for
    perhaps thousands of years, so it's probably pretty safe.
    I take it myself. But I'm not overly optimistic about it.

    Alan

  2. The case of your mother will be confounded by the fact that pre-existing Alz
    has a strong inflammatory component to it and this will inhibit amyloid
    clearance. Curcumin will work only work in early stage cases, after that
    there will need to be interventions to address the inflammatory component.

    John.
    "Alan Meyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Curcumin labels amyloid pathology in vivo, disrupts existing plaques,
    and partially restores distorted neurites in an Alzheimer mouse
    model.


    ...

    My father-in-law bought a pound or two of turmeric (which
    is a curcuminoid) and boxes of empty capsules. He prepared
    his own high dose capsules of the stuff and fed them in
    considerable quantity to my mother-in-law, who was suffering
    from mild to moderate AD at the time.

    There didn't appear to be any benefit. Her rate of deterioration
    appeared to be pretty much the same.

    That's not to say that turmeric/curcumin is of no benefit,
    just that I don't expect it to be a cure or even a complete
    preventive of the disease.

    Turmeric is cheap and has been used as a spice for
    perhaps thousands of years, so it's probably pretty safe.
    I take it myself. But I'm not overly optimistic about it.

    Alan

  3. "John H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The case of your mother will be confounded by the fact that pre-existing Alz
    has a strong inflammatory component to it and this will inhibit amyloid
    clearance. Curcumin will work only work in early stage cases, after that
    there will need to be interventions to address the inflammatory component.


    ....

    John,

    Are there any human studies, or even any mouse studies,
    that support this? Or is this a speculation?

    Also, do we know that inflammation occurs in mid stages but
    not in early stages?

    And finally, as Alan H. asks, isn't curcumin itself supposed to be
    an anti-inflammatory?

    Thanks.

    Alan

  4. Alan,

    Inflammation is well documented, it is common in neuropathological
    conditions. Amyloid activates microglia, which in turn release h202, oh-,
    and NO, all of which can significantly damage cells. These are, after all, a
    primary mode of attack for the innate immune system and it is the innate
    immune response that drives inflammation in alz.

    So I would argue that any amyloid is potentially inflammatory even in the
    absence of symptoms. However there are important exceptions, some studies
    have demonstrated that humans can have quite extensive amyloidosis with no
    or little cognitive dysfunction. I can only guess here but that guess is
    that in these individuals, who are often above average iq, have more
    "cerebral reserve" to make up for the losses. They may also possess and
    intrinsically lower systemic inflammation. Studies have revealed that even
    if a Alz patient has the flu this will markedly impact on their cognition.
    This is because of systemic inflammation arising via inflammatory cytokines
    like il-1, tnfa, possibly il-12 and 2. So make sure your mum has no chronic
    infections or conditions that can drive inflammation. In that regard gum
    health is important.

    Ironically one of the most promising treatments for Alz may be cannabinoids.
    Not just THC either, but cannabidol, a non-psychoactive cannabinoid, can act
    as both a suppressor of microglial activation and a potent antioxidant. In
    Mole Pharm Oct 6, 2006, one study found that THC was better than current
    drugs in increasing acetlycholine levels and preventing amyloid production.
    Hampson et al, PNAS, July 1998 found THC and cannabidol to have better
    antioxidant potential than vits E or c and comparable to the powerful lab
    antoxidant BHT. More trials needed.

    Make sure you Mum has an optimal diet, avoid the red meat(ie reduce iron
    because iron is a strong driver of oxidative stress and brains tend to
    accumulate iron with age!), load up on oily fish, lots of sunshine as
    vitamin D also plays a very important anti inflammatory role. Vits E and C
    don't really help. Brazil nuts for selenium, very important. A slow release
    multi vit a good idea, you would be surprised at how many elderly people are
    malnourished, a recent study here in Aus found well over 50%, perhaps as
    high as 80%, were borderline malnourished or outright malnourished. Ginkgo
    Biloba, used in Europe for decades, has both anti inflammatory and anti
    amyloid properties. It activates ttr (transthyretin) which promotes amyloid
    scavenging. So I'm rather interested in the mode of curcumin action.
    Be careful with gingko though, check with doctor first because of
    complications if your mum is on blood thinners or blood pressure medication.
    Also, it inhibits platelet function so if there is a family history of
    bleeds\strokes I would advise against gingko.

    If your Mum has elevated cholesterol a statin is advisable but make sure she
    also takes co enzyme Q10 with the statin. Statin drugs have an
    anti-inflammatory component and some speculate that this may be why they
    help in cholesterol management. There is also a striking relationship
    between cholesterol and alz, the reasons for that remain unclear. I suspect
    statins may become useful in the treatment of alz but haven't seen any data
    to that effect. Warning: if she takes a statin without coq10 it may make
    matters worse.

    Go for broad spectrum antioxidant and anti-inflammatory intake, lots of
    fruits and veges, blueberries, strawberries, orange juice ....

    Recent research revealed that apples contain a compound that promotes
    acetylcholine production. Might be worth thinking about because in Alz ach
    levels plummet.

    If there are any people around your mum who irritate her then [censored] them off.
    Stress must be avoided and [censored] need to be thrown out of the house.

    I realise this is easy advice to give and sounds promising and also know
    that getting alz patients to change their habits can be a nightmare. Be
    realistic and good luck. .

    John.

    "Alan Meyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "John H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The case of your mother will be confounded by the fact that pre-existing


    Alz

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    has a strong inflammatory component to it and this will inhibit amyloid
    clearance. Curcumin will work only work in early stage cases, after that
    there will need to be interventions to address the inflammatory


    component.

    Quoted message said:

    ...

    John,

    Are there any human studies, or even any mouse studies,
    that support this? Or is this a speculation?

    Also, do we know that inflammation occurs in mid stages but
    not in early stages?

    And finally, as Alan H. asks, isn't curcumin itself supposed to be
    an anti-inflammatory?

    Thanks.

    Alan

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