On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:46:34 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
<
[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:51:42 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the picture at:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.princeton.edu/~humcomp/bikes/design/desi_18.htm
>>>>
>>>> shows a common failure that occurs at the threads, not caused by the
>>>> mechanisms you mention.
>>>
>>> That spoke is screwed much too far into the nipple. Possibly the
>>> "new" thread cut by the nipple created a weak point, as it isn't
>>> rolled like a proper spoke thread.
>>
>> Dear Zog,
>>
>> Good eye! Without seeing the other end, we can't tell if the
>> spoke was screwed into the nipple past its threads, but it's
>> a possibility.
>>
>> Come to think of it, how did they fix the spoke for the
>> rotation and bending? With no tension, the spoke would
>> either have unscrewed when rotated one way, or else screwed
>> itself in up to the hilt when rotated the other way.
>>
>> Maybe you could fix the spoke in place by adding a second
>> nipple as a jam nut to the protruding spoke end?
>>
>> Now I'm squinting at that picture again more carefully.
>>
>> Do the uppermost two threads of the stump of the spoke look
>> as if they've deformed?
>>
>> Or is it a trick of the light and whatever they did to cut
>> the nipple and show the cross-section?
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>Carl, they would have had to have taken out the spoke (broken threaded part
>or not) in order to make the cross section of the nipple visible. Thus, how
>do we know they threaded it back into the nipple for the picture exactly as
>far as it was when it was taken out? Thus, we have no idea if the spoke was
>cut by the nipple by overthreading, and that argument is useless.
Dear Phil,
You may be right, but I don't think so.
The spoke looks as if it broke in two and left most of the
threaded section in place inside the nipple.
Then the nipple (still holding the stump of the spoke) was
ground or cut down to show a cross-section--no removal and
re-insertion, just a cross-section with the broken spoke
section in place.
The stump of the spoke in the example is broken off right
where I'd expect a spoke to crack at the nipple--just a
thread into the nipple.
In any case, this spoke was not part of the actual testing,
which involved fixing the test spokes in a collett, not a
spoke--I needed to read further and more carefully in the
series.
You can duplicate the basic test quite easily and quickly by
shoving the threaded end of a spoke into a drill press
chuck, raising the platform so that the spoke goes through
the drill hole, and then swivelling the platform to one side
so that the spoke is bent. Turn the drill on, and the spoke
will spin, constantly bending, and soon break--how soon
depends on how much of a bend you put in it.
The test used a wheel pressing with up to 10 pounds of force
against the spoke quite close to the chuck (0.75" is shown
in a diagram). Bending the spoke to one side with the hole
in the drill press platform is much cruder, even if you oil
the spot where the spoke revolves against the platform.
If you take a spoke, bend a small complete loop in its
middle (a super elbow), and run it through this test, the
spoke usually breaks in the middle of the loop if you use a
mild overall bend and wait about five minutes.
My library has ordered the book for me, so in a month I
might have the rest of the text.
Carl Fogel