Re: spokes keep loosening

[Dirtroadie]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> Tesnion is not correct, either thru building error or because the rim
> has become 'deformed' thru riding. Getting the tenion right even if it
> means a not round rim(cuz it ain't round anymore), will prevent spoke
> loosening

OK, I give up. Is it "Tesnion" or "tenion" that needs to be right or
correct? ;-)

And what are they anyhow? (lest get them wrong)

DR

 

[Dave]

The odd thing about the entire problem is only three spokes loosened and
they were knowhere near each other, all the rest of the spokes remained
tensioned. That's what puzzled me about the whole situation. I did tension
the 3 loose spokes, and the wheel is within a 1/32 of an inch tuned again.
The rim is not out of round either. I'll wait and see if this happens again.
Oh, the LBS fellow said the spokes were totally dry, and he could barely
move them before he oiled the nipples, and tuned the wheel the first time,
prior to the spoke probs. Thank you for your help, links, and info!!
Dave
sorry about the top posting

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dave who? writes:
>
> >>> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do?
>
> >>> I thought of putting Loctite on them or something, is this a good
> >>> idea or what is please seriously.
>
> >> You didn't say how many spokes this wheel has and how much you
> >> weigh. This information would make more apparent what the problem
> >> might be.
>
> >> The only way spokes can loosen is that, under load, spokes pointing
> >> straight down to the road become slack from overload. After all
> >> "the wheel stands on the spokes at the bottom of the wheel",
> >> structurally speaking. When slack spoke nipples can unscrew, while
> >> the wheel is close to collapse against even light side loads. Most
> >> wheels seldom experience side loads so they generally don't fail
> >> that way.
>
> >> In any case, your spokes are not tight enough to carry the load
> >> borne by the few spokes in the load affected (road contact) zone.
> >> Loctite is not the answer, although it and similar glues have been
> >> used for wheels that experience rattling loose spokes, a problem
> >> with many machine built wheels (SpokePrep).
>
> >> The spokes need to be tighter and possibly more of them to stay
> >> tight and true.
>
> >> Please fill in the missing information.
>
> > Sorry I didn't clarify wheel specs n weight. The wheel is a 36 spoke
> > laced to a 700 Rigida rim very narrow rim. My weight is 180lbs. Only
> > carry about 10 lbs when riding this. The tires are 23cm armadillos
> > if it matters. It's a lightweight aluminum Cannondale road bike 20
> > pounds if that.
>
> You might notice the sequence of above text, called bottom response,
> in which the foregoing is chronologically maintained for those who see
> the item for the first time. Being new to this forum, it probably
> isn't self evident, but it works for the regulars.
>
> I assumed the information you gave for my earlier response. As I
> said, spoke nipples can only loosen if they become slack so therein
> lies your problem rather than an overload or too few spokes. If you
> choose to fix this yourself, get a good spoke wrench and carefully put
> a drop of (motor) oil at every spoke nipple to rim interface from the
> outside (inner diameter) of the rim before making adjustments. People
> often report of stripping brass spoke nipples, something that is only
> possible with high (dry) rim friction, not thread drag. Do this with
> the tire removed so you can readily asses roundness and centering.
>
> You may just have a knack for this or you could develop one from a
> book that describes all these operations and their significance. The
> book is available from various sources among which is:
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/books.html#brandt
>
> Jobst Brandt

 

[Dave]

The odd thing about the entire problem is only three spokes loosened and
they were knowhere near each other, all the rest of the spokes remained
tensioned. That's what puzzled me about the whole situation. I did tension
the 3 loose spokes, and the wheel is within a 1/32 of an inch tuned again.
The rim is not out of round either. I'll wait and see if this happens again.
Oh, the LBS fellow said the spokes were totally dry, and he could barely
move them before he oiled the nipples, and tuned the wheel the first time,
prior to the spoke probs. Thank you for your help, links, and info!!
Dave
sorry about the top posting

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dave who? writes:
>
> >>> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do?
>
> >>> I thought of putting Loctite on them or something, is this a good
> >>> idea or what is please seriously.
>
> >> You didn't say how many spokes this wheel has and how much you
> >> weigh. This information would make more apparent what the problem
> >> might be.
>
> >> The only way spokes can loosen is that, under load, spokes pointing
> >> straight down to the road become slack from overload. After all
> >> "the wheel stands on the spokes at the bottom of the wheel",
> >> structurally speaking. When slack spoke nipples can unscrew, while
> >> the wheel is close to collapse against even light side loads. Most
> >> wheels seldom experience side loads so they generally don't fail
> >> that way.
>
> >> In any case, your spokes are not tight enough to carry the load
> >> borne by the few spokes in the load affected (road contact) zone.
> >> Loctite is not the answer, although it and similar glues have been
> >> used for wheels that experience rattling loose spokes, a problem
> >> with many machine built wheels (SpokePrep).
>
> >> The spokes need to be tighter and possibly more of them to stay
> >> tight and true.
>
> >> Please fill in the missing information.
>
> > Sorry I didn't clarify wheel specs n weight. The wheel is a 36 spoke
> > laced to a 700 Rigida rim very narrow rim. My weight is 180lbs. Only
> > carry about 10 lbs when riding this. The tires are 23cm armadillos
> > if it matters. It's a lightweight aluminum Cannondale road bike 20
> > pounds if that.
>
> You might notice the sequence of above text, called bottom response,
> in which the foregoing is chronologically maintained for those who see
> the item for the first time. Being new to this forum, it probably
> isn't self evident, but it works for the regulars.
>
> I assumed the information you gave for my earlier response. As I
> said, spoke nipples can only loosen if they become slack so therein
> lies your problem rather than an overload or too few spokes. If you
> choose to fix this yourself, get a good spoke wrench and carefully put
> a drop of (motor) oil at every spoke nipple to rim interface from the
> outside (inner diameter) of the rim before making adjustments. People
> often report of stripping brass spoke nipples, something that is only
> possible with high (dry) rim friction, not thread drag. Do this with
> the tire removed so you can readily asses roundness and centering.
>
> You may just have a knack for this or you could develop one from a
> book that describes all these operations and their significance. The
> book is available from various sources among which is:
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/books.html#brandt
>
> Jobst Brandt


"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Michael Press wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <[email protected]>,
> > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I thought of putting loctite on them or something, is this a good
idea or
> > > > what is please seriously.
> > > > Dave
> > > > "Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <[email protected]>,
> > > > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do? Thanks
> > > > >> dave
> > > > >
> > > > > Keep tightening them or your wheel will fall off.
> > >
> > > What is the origin of these wheels?
> > >
> > > What is the history of these wheels?
> > >
> > > What have you done to rectify the situation?
> > >
> > > Do you know anything about wheel building?
> > >
> > > Do not top post.
> >
> > Top posting causes loose spokes?
>
> Also the main force behind rampant moral turpitude, global
> warming, and cellulite,.
>
> --
> Michael Press
>

 

[Mark]

Dave wrote:

> The odd thing about the entire problem is only three spokes loosened and
> they were knowhere near each other, all the rest of the spokes remained
> tensioned. That's what puzzled me about the whole situation. I did tension
> the 3 loose spokes, and the wheel is within a 1/32 of an inch tuned again.
> The rim is not out of round either. I'll wait and see if this happens again.

It's possible (too easy, in fact) to build a wheel in which some spokes
have very low tension while the surrounding spokes "do the loose spoke's
job", all in a wheel that's true (at least for a while). That gives a
wheel having isolated spokes that seemingly spontaneously unscrew.

If you have moderate ability to hear different tones, pluck the spokes
all around each side of the wheel and make sure the tones are similar.
If they aren't, adjust tensions up/down to compensate, redistributing
the "work" the spokes are doing so that all on a given side are doing
the same "job". Add that in to all the other truing criteria
(roundness, trueness, high tension), and it takes a bit longer to get
the wheel right, but it stays that way.

Minor note: In my experience, you can get the *rim* ringing when you
pluck the spokes vigorously, and it disguises the tone you want to hear,
so pluck gently.

Mark J.

 

[[email protected]]

Dave who? writes:

>>>>> My spokes keep loosening, is their anything I can do?

>>>>> I thought of putting Loctite on them or something, is this a
>>>>> good idea or what is please seriously.

>>>> You didn't say how many spokes this wheel has and how much you
>>>> weigh. This information would make more apparent what the
>>>> problem might be.

>>>> The only way spokes can loosen is that, under load, spokes
>>>> pointing straight down to the road become slack from overload.
>>>> After all "the wheel stands on the spokes at the bottom of the
>>>> wheel", structurally speaking. When slack spoke nipples can
>>>> unscrew, while the wheel is close to collapse against even light
>>>> side loads. Most wheels seldom experience side loads so they
>>>> generally don't fail that way.

>>>> In any case, your spokes are not tight enough to carry the load
>>>> borne by the few spokes in the load affected (road contact) zone.
>>>> Loctite is not the answer, although it and similar glues have
>>>> been used for wheels that experience rattling loose spokes, a
>>>> problem with many machine built wheels (SpokePrep).

>>>> The spokes need to be tighter and possibly more of them to stay
>>>> tight and true.

>>>> Please fill in the missing information.

>>> Sorry I didn't clarify wheel specs n weight. The wheel is a 36
>>> spoke laced to a 700 Rigida rim very narrow rim. My weight is
>>> 180lbs. Only carry about 10 lbs when riding this. The tires are
>>> 23cm armadillos if it matters. It's a lightweight aluminum
>>> Cannondale road bike 20 pounds if that.

>> You might notice the sequence of above text, called bottom
>> response, in which the foregoing is chronologically maintained for
>> those who see the item for the first time. Being new to this
>> forum, it probably isn't self evident, but it works for the
>> regulars.

>> I assumed the information you gave for my earlier response. As I
>> said, spoke nipples can only loosen if they become slack so therein
>> lies your problem rather than an overload or too few spokes. If
>> you choose to fix this yourself, get a good spoke wrench and
>> carefully put a drop of (motor) oil at every spoke nipple to rim
>> interface from the outside (inner diameter) of the rim before
>> making adjustments. People often report of stripping brass spoke
>> nipples, something that is only possible with high (dry) rim
>> friction, not thread drag. Do this with the tire removed so you
>> can readily asses roundness and centering.

>> You may just have a knack for this or you could develop one from a
>> book that describes all these operations and their significance.
>> The book is available from various sources among which is: >>

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/books.html#brandt

> The odd thing about the entire problem is only three spokes loosened
> and they were nowhere near each other, all the rest of the spokes
> remained tensioned. That's what puzzled me about the whole
> situation. I did tension the 3 loose spokes, and the wheel is
> within a 1/32 of an inch tuned again.

The whole wheel needs to be tighter so that all spokes are reasonably
above the slackening tension. Your wheel, if it was true to begin
with, is marginally above the slack spoke level.

> The rim is not out of round either.

Rims are naturally true when manufactured. Proper spoke tension, if
not uniform, will make them untrue locally that's why a loosely spoked
wheel can be true even though the spokes are not uniformly tensioned.
Try the tone test to see if spokes on one side of the wheel are
equally tensioned. If you are not tone deaf, you should easily be
able to discern differences.

> I'll wait and see if this happens again. Oh, the LBS fellow said
> the spokes were totally dry, and he could barely move them before he
> oiled the nipples, and tuned the wheel the first time, prior to the
> spoke problems. Thank you for your help, links, and info!!

> Sorry about the top posting.

I hope you find a way do something about that. As you can see, a
moderately reasonable newsgroup editor/reader does that adequately.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Bill Sornson]

[email protected] wrote:

> Dave who? writes:

Maybe ol' Dave will fix his username when you do!

 

[Dave]

Thank you to everyone that has helped me. I'm going to tone test the spokes
like recommended, and see what I come up with. This gives me alot to go on
to solving the problem.
All the best,
Dave
http://www.noweldrecumbent
noweldrecumbent AT Hot Male dot Com

"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Dave who? writes:
>
> Maybe ol' Dave will fix his username when you do!
>