Re: SUV Spontaneously Flips Over; Human Dead, But Dogs Survive

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by United We Stand, Feb 19, 2005.

  1. 223rem wrote:

    >>
    >> It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause.  There
    >> had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >> something.
    >>

    >
    > Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?


    That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    like not littering, is very unamerican.
     
    Tags:


  2. James C. Reeves wrote:

    > I've had a couple of blow-outs.


    2nd try: front or rear? Big difference. FWD or RWD or 4WD ?

    > Maintaining control of the vehicle was
    > not a problem.  So I'm not sure what you're talking about.  Also, what
    > does "littering" have to do with the subject in this thread?


    Do you think nails and all sorts of small and sharp metal junk falls from
    the sky?
     
  3. United We Stand wrote:
    > 223rem wrote:
    >
    > >>
    > >> It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause.

    There
    > >> had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension

    component or
    > >> something.
    > >>

    > >
    > > Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?

    >
    > That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little

    nail
    > on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good

    will,
    > like not littering, is very unamerican.


    I've got a better idea to avoid rollovers: slow down.


    Bob Dog
     
  4. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    19 Feb 2005 21:25:46 -0800,
    <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    >United We Stand wrote:
    >> 223rem wrote:
    >>
    >> >>
    >> >> It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause.

    >There
    >> >> had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension

    >component or
    >> >> something.
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> > Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?

    >>
    >> That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little

    >nail
    >> on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good

    >will,
    >> like not littering, is very unamerican.

    >
    >I've got a better idea to avoid rollovers: slow down.
    >

    Better yet:
    Give it back to the bank.
    Forget where you parked.
    Lose the keys.
    Suck the tailpipe.
    --
    zk
     
  5. Glenn Arnold

    Glenn Arnold Guest

    United We Stand wrote:
    > 223rem wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>something.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?

    >
    >
    > That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    > on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    > like not littering, is very unamerican.


    Most cars have at least one nail in a tire. It usually just causes a
    slow leak. Often not even that much. It almost never causes a blowout.

    Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.

    Glenn Arnold
     
  6. Glenn Arnold

    Glenn Arnold Guest

    James C. Reeves wrote:
    > "United We Stand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>223rem wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>something.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?

    >>
    >>That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >>on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good
    >>will,
    >>like not littering, is very unamerican.

    >
    >
    > I've had a couple of blow-outs. Maintaining control of the vehicle was not
    > a problem. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, what does
    > "littering" have to do with the subject in this thread?
    >
    >



    I'm still reeling over "not littering" being unamerican.

    Glenn Arnold
     
  7. satyr

    satyr Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:43:35 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >James C. Reeves wrote:
    >> "United We Stand" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>>223rem wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>>something.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    >>>
    >>>That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >>>on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good
    >>>will,
    >>>like not littering, is very unamerican.

    >>
    >>
    >> I've had a couple of blow-outs. Maintaining control of the vehicle was not
    >> a problem. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, what does
    >> "littering" have to do with the subject in this thread?
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >I'm still reeling over "not littering" being unamerican.


    Have you ever seen America?

    "America, America, Man sheds his waste on thee."

    - George Carlin


    --
    satyr #1953
    Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
    Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
    Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
     
  8. Jim Ledford

    Jim Ledford Guest

    Glenn Arnold wrote:

    > James C. Reeves wrote:
    > > United We Stand wrote:
    > >> 223rem wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    > >>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    > >>>>something.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    > >>
    > >>That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    > >>on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good
    > >>will,
    > >>like not littering, is very unamerican.

    > >
    > >
    > > I've had a couple of blow-outs. Maintaining control of the vehicle was not
    > > a problem. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, what does
    > > "littering" have to do with the subject in this thread?
    > >
    > >

    >
    > I'm still reeling over "not littering" being unamerican.


    I believe the person behind the id [United We Stand] has
    actually spoken a truth concerning americans and litter.

    want to test it? if yes, then purchase for yourself a
    large tract of land with lots of road frontage and you'll
    receive a large trash pile in less than a week. yep,
    those americans are not about to toss their fast [junk]
    food wrappers down on the floor board of [their] car/truck.
    instead they are going to toss the trash out the window and
    that's just their american way of life. from the studies
    we've done it has been determined that most of that litter
    is tossed by city people who are used to having the city
    street sweeper clean up behind them, like a mechanical mommie
    following them. unfortunately for me the city street sweeper
    never makes it out of the city to clean up behind the city
    people who do make it out of their city. and what's with
    street lights burning all night long? are city people
    scared of the dark?

    Jim
     
  9. Jim Ledford

    Jim Ledford Guest

    satyr wrote:

    > Glenn Arnold wrote:
    > > James C. Reeves wrote:
    > >> United We Stand wrote:
    > >>> 223rem wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    > >>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    > >>>>>something.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    > >>>
    > >>>That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    > >>>on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good
    > >>>will, like not littering, is very unamerican.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> I've had a couple of blow-outs. Maintaining control of the vehicle was not
    > >> a problem. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, what does
    > >> "littering" have to do with the subject in this thread?
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > >I'm still reeling over "not littering" being unamerican.

    >
    > Have you ever seen America?
    >
    > "America, America, Man sheds his waste on thee."
    >
    > - George Carlin


    I never cared for george carlin, until I
    read what you quoted from him. that was good.
     
  10. Big Bill

    Big Bill Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >United We Stand wrote:
    >> 223rem wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>something.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?

    >>
    >>
    >> That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >> on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    >> like not littering, is very unamerican.

    >
    >Most cars have at least one nail in a tire. It usually just causes a
    >slow leak. Often not even that much. It almost never causes a blowout.
    >
    >Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >
    >Glenn Arnold


    Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    and they had the video to prove it.
    In fact, a *hands off* run with a tire failure didn't even make the
    Explorer change direction at all.
    The main problem with those crashes was a driver who panicked, went
    off the road, and then rolled when attempting to get back on the
    pavement at speed. The pavement catches the front tire (the blown
    tires were almost all on rear tires when the Explorers rolled) and the
    driver turns harder to the left, and the vehicle jumps the edge of the
    pavement, shoots to the left, and the driver overcorrects. Instant
    rollover. This happens a lot without any blown tires, too.
    The vast majority of the fatalities were of passangers not using
    belts. My favorite was the teen in the back cargo compartment. WHose
    bright idea was that?

    --
    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
     
  11. Big Bill wrote:

    > On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>United We Stand wrote:
    >>> 223rem wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component
    >>>>>or something.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little
    >>> nail on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others'
    >>> good will, like not littering, is very unamerican.

    >>
    >>Most cars have at least one nail in a tire. It usually just causes a
    >>slow leak. Often not even that much. It almost never causes a blowout.
    >>
    >>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>
    >>Glenn Arnold

    >
    > Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    > sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    > the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    > Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    > and they had the video to prove it.
    > In fact, a *hands off* run with a tire failure didn't even make the
    > Explorer change direction at all.
    > The main problem with those crashes was a driver who panicked, went
    > off the road, and then rolled when attempting to get back on the
    > pavement at speed. The pavement catches the front tire (the blown
    > tires were almost all on rear tires when the Explorers rolled) and the
    > driver turns harder to the left, and the vehicle jumps the edge of the
    > pavement, shoots to the left, and the driver overcorrects. Instant
    > rollover. This happens a lot without any blown tires, too.
    > The vast majority of the fatalities were of passangers not using
    > belts. My favorite was the teen in the back cargo compartment. WHose
    > bright idea was that?
    >


    A friend of mine witnessed at pickup rollover. In fact, he caused it when he
    didn't notice a stop sign and hit that truck near its rear wheel. The truck
    driver overcompensated and rolled over in the direction opposite to the
    impact. Not a scratch on my friend, who was wearing a seatbelt and was
    driving a midsize sedan.
     
  12. Glenn Arnold

    Glenn Arnold Guest

    Big Bill wrote:
    > On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>United We Stand wrote:
    >>
    >>>223rem wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>>something.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >>>on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    >>>like not littering, is very unamerican.

    >>
    >>Most cars have at least one nail in a tire. It usually just causes a
    >>slow leak. Often not even that much. It almost never causes a blowout.
    >>
    >>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>
    >>Glenn Arnold

    >
    >
    > Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    > sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    > the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    > Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    > and they had the video to prove it.
    > In fact, a *hands off* run with a tire failure didn't even make the
    > Explorer change direction at all.
    > The main problem with those crashes was a driver who panicked, went
    > off the road, and then rolled when attempting to get back on the
    > pavement at speed. The pavement catches the front tire (the blown
    > tires were almost all on rear tires when the Explorers rolled) and the
    > driver turns harder to the left, and the vehicle jumps the edge of the
    > pavement, shoots to the left, and the driver overcorrects. Instant
    > rollover. This happens a lot without any blown tires, too.
    > The vast majority of the fatalities were of passangers not using
    > belts. My favorite was the teen in the back cargo compartment. WHose
    > bright idea was that?
    >


    If you look at the way I worded the statement above, it is the high
    center of gravity that causes the rollover, not the blowout. The blowout
    is merely an antecedent, although I didn't make the connection quite the
    way you point it out.

    So thanks for the info. It's interesting to note how driver error
    factors into so many accidents.

    Glenn Arnold
     
  13. Chris Neary

    Chris Neary Guest

    Big Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>United We Stand wrote:
    >>> 223rem wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>>something.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >>> on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    >>> like not littering, is very unamerican.

    >>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>
    >>Glenn Arnold

    >
    >Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    >sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    >the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    >Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    >and they had the video to prove it.
    >In fact, a *hands off* run with a tire failure didn't even make the
    >Explorer change direction at all.
    >The main problem with those crashes was a driver who panicked, went
    >off the road, and then rolled when attempting to get back on the
    >pavement at speed. The pavement catches the front tire (the blown
    >tires were almost all on rear tires when the Explorers rolled) and the
    >driver turns harder to the left, and the vehicle jumps the edge of the
    >pavement, shoots to the left, and the driver overcorrects. Instant
    >rollover. This happens a lot without any blown tires, too.


    Summarized another way, SUV's do not tolerate poor steering inputs as well
    as most alternative vehicles. Why ? - the high center of gravity.



    Chris Neary
    [email protected]
     
  14. satyr

    satyr Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:51:01 -0700, Big Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    >wrote:


    >>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>
    >>Glenn Arnold

    >
    >Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    >sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    >the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    >Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    >and they had the video to prove it.


    There were a few problems with that test but a big one was that they
    simulated a blowout and that isn't what happened to the Firestone
    tires. They threw their treads which ironically might be worse than a
    blowout. Also, they didn't try hitting the brakes which would be a
    typical driver error. I am not sure how heavily loaded the test truck
    wa but that would be a big factor also. Many of these SUVs have
    shockingly low cargo (weight) capacity. Put in five big guys, their
    luggage and then strap some stuff to the roof and you are top-heavy
    and way over the weight limit.

    --
    satyr #1953
    Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
    Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
    Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
     
  15. Ulf

    Ulf Guest

    Big Bill wrote:
    > On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>United We Stand wrote:
    >>
    >>>223rem wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>>something.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >>>on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    >>>like not littering, is very unamerican.

    >>
    >>Most cars have at least one nail in a tire. It usually just causes a
    >>slow leak. Often not even that much. It almost never causes a blowout.
    >>
    >>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>
    >>Glenn Arnold

    >
    >
    > Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    > sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    > the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    > Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    > and they had the video to prove it.
    > In fact, a *hands off* run with a tire failure didn't even make the
    > Explorer change direction at all.
    > The main problem with those crashes was a driver who panicked, went
    > off the road, and then rolled when attempting to get back on the
    > pavement at speed. The pavement catches the front tire (the blown
    > tires were almost all on rear tires when the Explorers rolled) and the
    > driver turns harder to the left, and the vehicle jumps the edge of the
    > pavement, shoots to the left, and the driver overcorrects. Instant
    > rollover. This happens a lot without any blown tires, too.
    > The vast majority of the fatalities were of passangers not using
    > belts. My favorite was the teen in the back cargo compartment. WHose
    > bright idea was that?


    The magazine was Car and Driver. I saw that test on some news network,
    and that guy with the weird name did the tests. It wasn't very
    realistic, they should've taken people off the street to "test drive"
    the Explorer and, without telling them in advance, blow the tire. Then
    it would have been possible to see how a non-expert would have handled
    the situation. Of course, the real problem with the Firestone tires was
    that the tread separated from the rest of the tire, and in a few
    instances wrapped itself around the rear axle causing both rear wheels
    to lock up. I doubt *very* few people would have been able to control an
    SUV which rear tires suddenly and unexpectedly locked up, especially at
    70 mph.

    >

    Ulf
     
  16. Big Bill

    Big Bill Guest

    On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:15:31 -0800, Chris Neary
    <[email protected] > wrote:

    >Big Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>United We Stand wrote:
    >>>> 223rem wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>>>something.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >>>> on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    >>>> like not littering, is very unamerican.
    >>>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>>
    >>>Glenn Arnold

    >>
    >>Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    >>sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    >>the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    >>Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    >>and they had the video to prove it.
    >>In fact, a *hands off* run with a tire failure didn't even make the
    >>Explorer change direction at all.
    >>The main problem with those crashes was a driver who panicked, went
    >>off the road, and then rolled when attempting to get back on the
    >>pavement at speed. The pavement catches the front tire (the blown
    >>tires were almost all on rear tires when the Explorers rolled) and the
    >>driver turns harder to the left, and the vehicle jumps the edge of the
    >>pavement, shoots to the left, and the driver overcorrects. Instant
    >>rollover. This happens a lot without any blown tires, too.

    >
    >Summarized another way, SUV's do not tolerate poor steering inputs as well
    >as most alternative vehicles. Why ? - the high center of gravity.
    >
    >
    >
    >Chris Neary
    >[email protected]


    You seemed to link the rollover with blowouts, saying that "Until the
    advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers", which just isn't
    true. Even sports cars, with a low center of gravity, can get caught
    by that pavement lip and flip.
    --
    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
     
  17. Big Bill

    Big Bill Guest

    On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:08:35 GMT, satyr <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:51:01 -0700, Big Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    >>wrote:

    >
    >>>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>>
    >>>Glenn Arnold

    >>
    >>Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    >>sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    >>the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    >>Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    >>and they had the video to prove it.

    >
    >There were a few problems with that test but a big one was that they
    >simulated a blowout and that isn't what happened to the Firestone
    >tires. They threw their treads which ironically might be worse than a
    >blowout. Also, they didn't try hitting the brakes which would be a
    >typical driver error. I am not sure how heavily loaded the test truck
    >wa but that would be a big factor also. Many of these SUVs have
    >shockingly low cargo (weight) capacity. Put in five big guys, their
    >luggage and then strap some stuff to the roof and you are top-heavy
    >and way over the weight limit.


    The point was, and remains, that it was driver error, and that was
    compounded by people not being belted in.
    In the tests, there was *no* lack of stability, or tendance to change
    direction, with the blowouts.
    People tend to forget that the rear tires simply follow, they don't
    steer. In fact, I remember being told here (not in this thread) that a
    blowout on a rear tire was much worse than on a front tire. Absolutely
    wrong, but he was adamant.
    The fact remains that rear blowouts simply don't cause rollovers the
    way the news media tried to portray.
    It's the wrong reactions by the drivers that cause the rollovers.
    On my 81 F-250HD (that's the one that looks like it's been lifted) I
    had a catastrophic blowout at about 65, on the left rear tire. The
    only hint I had was the noise and commotion, and the slight lowering
    of the left rear corner of the truck; absolutely no change of
    direction took place. That truck had a center of gravity almost as
    high as an SUV; it was tall & heavy.

    --
    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
     
  18. Big Bill

    Big Bill Guest

    On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 01:11:42 GMT, Ulf <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Big Bill wrote:
    >> On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>>United We Stand wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>223rem wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>>>something.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >>>>on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    >>>>like not littering, is very unamerican.
    >>>
    >>>Most cars have at least one nail in a tire. It usually just causes a
    >>>slow leak. Often not even that much. It almost never causes a blowout.
    >>>
    >>>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>>
    >>>Glenn Arnold

    >>
    >>
    >> Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    >> sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    >> the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    >> Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    >> and they had the video to prove it.
    >> In fact, a *hands off* run with a tire failure didn't even make the
    >> Explorer change direction at all.
    >> The main problem with those crashes was a driver who panicked, went
    >> off the road, and then rolled when attempting to get back on the
    >> pavement at speed. The pavement catches the front tire (the blown
    >> tires were almost all on rear tires when the Explorers rolled) and the
    >> driver turns harder to the left, and the vehicle jumps the edge of the
    >> pavement, shoots to the left, and the driver overcorrects. Instant
    >> rollover. This happens a lot without any blown tires, too.
    >> The vast majority of the fatalities were of passangers not using
    >> belts. My favorite was the teen in the back cargo compartment. WHose
    >> bright idea was that?

    >
    >The magazine was Car and Driver. I saw that test on some news network,
    >and that guy with the weird name did the tests. It wasn't very
    >realistic, they should've taken people off the street to "test drive"
    >the Explorer and, without telling them in advance, blow the tire.


    The driver had no knowledge of when the tire would 'blow'.
    >Then
    >it would have been possible to see how a non-expert would have handled
    >the situation. Of course, the real problem with the Firestone tires was
    >that the tread separated from the rest of the tire, and in a few
    >instances wrapped itself around the rear axle causing both rear wheels
    >to lock up. I doubt *very* few people would have been able to control an
    >SUV which rear tires suddenly and unexpectedly locked up, especially at
    >70 mph.


    The tread seperated on *very* few of those incidents; I checked. It
    wasn't hard to find out.
    The tread wrapping around the axle might stop *one* tire, but not
    both, unless a locker was installed *and active* at the time; not
    likely on highways.
    >
    >>

    >Ulf


    --
    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
     
  19. Glenn Arnold

    Glenn Arnold Guest

    Big Bill wrote:
    > On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:15:31 -0800, Chris Neary
    > <[email protected] > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Big Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:41:33 -0500, Glenn Arnold <[email protected]>
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>United We Stand wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>223rem wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the cause. There
    >>>>>>>had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension component or
    >>>>>>>something.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little nail
    >>>>>on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good will,
    >>>>>like not littering, is very unamerican.
    >>>>
    >>>>Until the advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers. The cause
    >>>>of rollovers is the high center of gravity associated with SUV's.
    >>>>
    >>>>Glenn Arnold
    >>>
    >>>Not according to an auro mag (I don't remember wwhich one, but I'm
    >>>sure someone else will) who actually *tried* this with an Explorer at
    >>>the height of the Firestone/Explorer debacle.
    >>>Conclusion? A catastrophic tire failure does *not* cause a rollover,
    >>>and they had the video to prove it.
    >>>In fact, a *hands off* run with a tire failure didn't even make the
    >>>Explorer change direction at all.
    >>>The main problem with those crashes was a driver who panicked, went
    >>>off the road, and then rolled when attempting to get back on the
    >>>pavement at speed. The pavement catches the front tire (the blown
    >>>tires were almost all on rear tires when the Explorers rolled) and the
    >>>driver turns harder to the left, and the vehicle jumps the edge of the
    >>>pavement, shoots to the left, and the driver overcorrects. Instant
    >>>rollover. This happens a lot without any blown tires, too.

    >>
    >>Summarized another way, SUV's do not tolerate poor steering inputs as well
    >>as most alternative vehicles. Why ? - the high center of gravity.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Chris Neary
    >>[email protected]

    >
    >
    > You seemed to link the rollover with blowouts, saying that "Until the
    > advent of the SUV, blowouts rarely caused rollovers", which just isn't
    > true. Even sports cars, with a low center of gravity, can get caught
    > by that pavement lip and flip.


    Well, now you're back to the blowout causing the flip, yet by your own
    description it's the "catching the pavement lip" that actually causes
    the flip.

    I think we agree that the blowout on it's own isn't likely to cause a
    rollover. The issue is whether a high center of gravity increases the
    chance of a rollover in any case; which it does by a large margin. Hence
    newer model SUV's are built with lower CG's.

    Glenn Arnold
     
  20. Larry Bud

    Larry Bud Guest

    United We Stand wrote:
    > 223rem wrote:
    >
    > >>
    > >> It will be interesting to see if they ever determine the

    cause. There
    > >> had to be some sort of catastrophic failure of a suspension

    component or
    > >> something.
    > >>

    > >
    > > Tire blowup? Stuck gas pedal?

    >
    > That's why everyone needs all-dual wheels (not just back). One little

    nail
    > on the road, and your ass is in the morgue. Depending on others' good

    will,
    > like not littering, is very unamerican.


    Car and Driver did testing of blowouts on Ford SUV a few years ago when
    the tire separation was an issue NONE of them resulted in roll overs.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=4502
     
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