Re: The benefit of megadoses of B-vitamins

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Delete the D, Aug 26, 2003.

  1. Delete the D

    Delete the D Guest

    Mooshie peas <[email protected]> writes:
    [...]
    >You must post an example of a vitamin supplement
    >being needed by a normal healthy adult eating a
    >varied wholefood eucaloric diet with regular
    >moderate exercise.

    [...]

    Some say the evidence for taking vitamins is
    lacking.

    They say

    "if cavemen evolved to survive on whole foods,
    moderate exercise and calories, that's good
    enough for us too".

    They say

    "only the fittest survived and we should live
    how they lived, eat what they ate and exercise
    how they exercised".

    However, as I write this in August of 2003, I'm
    aware of MORE EVIDENCE THAT EVOLUTION CONSERVED
    THE BENEFITS OF B VITAMINS than a Neanderthal's
    knuckle dragging lifestyle.

    B vitamins have been found, in scientifically
    controlled studies, to extend the life spans of
    both fruit flies AND rodents, whose last common
    ancestor is thought to have lived HUNDREDS OF
    MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO, when the ancient sea beds
    were ruled by the mighty trilobite and WAY before
    any man walked the earth.

    It's remarkable that the same vitamins work in two
    species so different. Bugs and mammals, small and
    large, airborne and terrestrial.

    Can we deny the possibility that the beneficial
    chemical pathways acted up by B vitamins have been
    conserved during hundreds of millions of years of
    evolution?

    Perhaps you're wondering which B vitamins I'm
    writing about.

    B5 and B6 increased life spans in both fruit flies
    and rodents, from 10% to 28%, each.

    Studies have also found that B5 and B6 improve
    health in humans.

    All this is in Michael Price's excellent Longevity
    Report.

    On the other hand, I know of no studies that found
    that whole foods, moderate exercise or calories
    extend life span.

    Where are they?

    Even if one or two can be found, how compelling
    are they? Were they done on very different
    species, by different researchers and at different
    times?

    And, if B5 and B6 have more evidence, shouldn't we
    prefer them?

    I think so.

    Thanks,
    Kingsley

    --
    --
    Kingsley G. Morse Jr.
     
    Tags:


  2. Mooshie peas

    Mooshie peas Guest

    On 26 Aug 2003 14:55:06 -0700, [email protected] (Delete the "D")
    posted:

    >Mooshie peas <[email protected]> writes:
    >[...]
    >>You must post an example of a vitamin supplement
    >>being needed by a normal healthy adult eating a
    >>varied wholefood eucaloric diet with regular
    >>moderate exercise.

    >[...]
    >
    >Some say the evidence for taking vitamins is
    >lacking.
    >
    >They say
    >
    > "if cavemen evolved to survive on whole foods,
    > moderate exercise and calories, that's good
    > enough for us too".
    >
    >They say
    >
    > "only the fittest survived and we should live
    > how they lived, eat what they ate and exercise
    > how they exercised".
    >
    >However, as I write this in August of 2003, I'm
    >aware of MORE EVIDENCE THAT EVOLUTION CONSERVED
    >THE BENEFITS OF B VITAMINS than a Neanderthal's
    >knuckle dragging lifestyle.


    Sorry, how did a Neanderthal's (no relation to H sapiens) knuckle
    dragging lifestyle CONSERVE THE BENEFITS OF B VITAMINS?

    >B vitamins have been found, in scientifically
    >controlled studies, to extend the life spans of
    >both fruit flies AND rodents, whose last common
    >ancestor is thought to have lived HUNDREDS OF
    >MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO, when the ancient sea beds
    >were ruled by the mighty trilobite and WAY before
    >any man walked the earth.


    And the significance of this esotric finding?

    >It's remarkable that the same vitamins work in two
    >species so different. Bugs and mammals, small and
    >large, airborne and terrestrial.


    Well do they? Is it? What's the relevance to other organisms?

    >Can we deny the possibility that the beneficial
    >chemical pathways acted up by B vitamins have been
    >conserved during hundreds of millions of years of
    >evolution?


    And they would be? Look if B vitamins were so vital, why do you think
    that these organisms didn't evolve to produce their own?

    >Perhaps you're wondering which B vitamins I'm
    >writing about.


    Not particularly. Vitamins are only essential molecules that were so
    readily available that no organism found any survival pressure to make
    them for themselves. Look at ascorbic acid. Humans and guinea pigs are
    about the only organisms that this is a vitamin for.

    >B5 and B6 increased life spans in both fruit flies
    >and rodents, from 10% to 28%, each.


    So?

    >Studies have also found that B5 and B6 improve
    >health in humans.


    Only when treating deficiencies. Which with industrial food production
    and overconsumption are rife today.

    >All this is in Michael Price's excellent Longevity
    >Report.


    But apparently nowhere does it show any benefit from supplementation
    to healthy adults who eat a varied wholefood diet. A rare thing in the
    West, BTW.

    >On the other hand, I know of no studies that found
    >that whole foods, moderate exercise or calories
    >extend life span.


    From what? Compared with what?

    >Where are they?


    All around you. Humans we are talking about.
    Mice increase lifespan from their three years (or so) by being
    severely calorie restricted. This is thought to have very little
    relevance to humans.

    >Even if one or two can be found, how compelling
    >are they? Were they done on very different
    >species, by different researchers and at different
    >times?


    Humans, remember. Optimal nutrition gives optimal health, happiness,
    and longevity, in the experience of the human race.
    If you can show any benefit from supplementation of an optimal diet,
    then I'm convinced.

    >And, if B5 and B6 have more evidence, shouldn't we
    >prefer them?


    To what? You seem to be craving some magic bullet, when the truth is
    staring you in the face.

    >I think so.


    I'm sure you do. Good luck on your quest for the holy grail :)
     
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