Re: The Revolution Will Not be Motorized



On Aug 4, 6:02 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
> > On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>> OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
> >>> you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
> >>> SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...
> >> Google "Hubbert's Peak.

>
> > Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
> > couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
> > hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
> > in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
> > dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.

>
> How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
> and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
> Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
> danger of cycling.
>


OK, let me put my week of watching predator behavior (Shark Week on
Discovery Channel) to the test... Some fearless people have learned to
hang from the pectoral fin of a shark and get a free ride! But one guy
was bitten in front of the camera and his calf was gone. And then we
have the majority of people who just fear the shark, period.

So how this majority of people want to approach the predator is up to
them, but I'd start by, a) TAMING THE BEAST (traffic calming
measures), and/or b) separating the predator from the prey (BIKE
LANES). And since some of you don't want to hear about the latter
(everyone has a phobia), then let's turn our attention to...

(all of these things are a package that comes with the revolution)

TRAFFIC CALMING

Traffic calming is a set of strategies used by urban planners and
traffic engineers which aim to slow down or reduce traffic, thereby
improving safety for pedestrians and bicyclists as well as improving
the environment for residents. Calming measures are common in Europe,
especially Northern Europe; less so in North America.

Traffic calming was traditionally justified on the grounds of
pedestrian safety and reduction of noise and local air pollution which
are side effects of the traffic. However, streets have many social and
recreational functions which are severely impaired by car traffic. The
Livable Streets study by Donald Appleyard (circa 1977) found that
residents of streets with light traffic had, on average, three more
friends and twice as many acquaintances as the people on streets with
heavy traffic which were otherwise similar in dimensions, income, etc.
For much of the twentieth century, streets were designed by engineers
who were charged only with ensuring traffic flow and not with
fostering the other functions of streets. The basis for traffic
calming is broadening traffic engineering to include designing for
these functions.

There are 3 "E"'s that traffic engineers refer to when discussing
traffic calming: engineering, (community) education, and (police)
enforcement. Because neighborhood traffic management studies have
shown that often it is the residents themselves who are contributing
to the perceived speeding problem within the neighborhood, it is
stressed that the most effective traffic calming plans will entail all
three components, and that engineering measures alone will not produce
satisfactory results.

A number of visual changes to roads are being made to many streets to
bring about more attentive driving, reduced speeds, reduced crashes,
and greater tendency to yield to pedestrians. Visual traffic calming
includes lane narrowings (9-10'), road diets (reduction in lanes), use
of trees next to streets, on-street parking, and buildings placed in
urban fashion close to streets.

Some additional traffic calming techniques that are often used are
speed humps, speed cushions, and speed tables. These devices vary in
size based on the desired speed. Humps, cushions and tables slow cars
to between 10 and 25 miles per hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming

COMING SOON
http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/?l1=Coming+Soon:&l2=the&l3=Banana+Revolution!&l4=
 
On Aug 5, 6:53 am, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > donquijote1954 who? wrote:
> >> On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
> >>>> ...
> >>>> OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
> >>>> you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
> >>>> SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...
> >>> Google "Hubbert's Peak.

>
> >> Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
> >> couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
> >> hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
> >> in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
> >> dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.

>
> > How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
> > and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
> > Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
> > danger of cycling.

>
> Cycling on highways with lots of traffic and no shoulders is extremely
> dangerous. Even an idiot knows that much.


Even a caveman knows that. 15 minutes in the street is all you need to
know that.
 
On Aug 5, 7:12 am, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andrew Muzi wrote:
> >>>>>> However, I stand by my statement that the free-market has failed,
> >>>>>> since there is no real free-market health care system in the US.

>
> >>>>> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote
> >>>>> Seeing as it's never really been tried, except perhaps many moons ago
> >>>>> when health care was nowhere near as complex and expensive as it is
> >>>>> now,

>
> >>>> Joe the Aroma WHO? wrote:
> >>>>> I think it's hasty to make that conclusion.

>
> >>> "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote
> >>>> My point exactly. The FREE MARKET is failing to provide free market
> >>>> health care in the U.S.

>
> >> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >>> Mr. Sherman is quite corred on this matter of health care in the US. The
> >>> present system is broken and cannot be fixed except by a single payer
> >>> system (the government). Such a health care system will be like the
> >>> public school system. It is not socialism, but simply good common sense.
> >>> It ought to be financed via higher progressive income taxes on the rich
> >>> and/or a value added tax on those who like to spend money on luxuries. A
> >>> total no-brainer!

>
> >> You have obviously not thought that through to its logical conclusion

>
> > My logical conclusion was that I could not afford to get treatment for a
> > chronic health problem, since my portion of the expenses was more than my
> > discretionary income - and yes, I am "covered" under a[n] employer
> > provided "health plan". I really need to start trying to get a job in
> > Canada.

>
> > More than 50% of recent personal bankruptcies in the US are from people
> > who got sick, lost their jobs and/or health coverage or exceeded the
> > coverage limits, and exhausted their financial assets on medical bills.
> > Great system, eh?

>
> Mr. Sherman is a professional civil engineer with a very good job and yet he
> finds himself in trouble. That says it all.
>
> No nation that has gone to government paid health care has ever voted to
> give it up. Most of us do not want transplants or other heroic medical
> procedures, but we do want garden variety health care. Heath care needs to
> be made a right and not something you can only get if you can afford to pay
> for it. Where the Hell did such a crazy idea ever come from in the first
> place?
>
> The sooner the present system goes kaput, the better. If I did not have the
> VA, I would have to think about emigrating to Canada myself.
>


I suggested this to you elsewhere: Relocate the capital to Ottawa. How
would we go about it? (Within the Constitution, that is?)
 
donquijote1954 who? wrote:
> On Aug 4, 6:02 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
>>> On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
>>>>> you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
>>>>> SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...
>>>> Google "Hubbert's Peak.
>>> Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
>>> couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
>>> hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
>>> in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
>>> dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.

>> How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
>> and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
>> Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
>> danger of cycling.
>>

>
> OK, let me put my week of watching predator behavior (Shark Week on
> Discovery Channel) to the test... Some fearless people have learned to
> hang from the pectoral fin of a shark and get a free ride! But one guy
> was bitten in front of the camera and his calf was gone. And then we
> have the majority of people who just fear the shark, period.
>
> So how this majority of people want to approach the predator is up to
> them, but I'd start by, a) TAMING THE BEAST (traffic calming
> measures), and/or b) separating the predator from the prey (BIKE
> LANES). And since some of you don't want to hear about the latter
> (everyone has a phobia), then let's turn our attention to...
>
> (all of these things are a package that comes with the revolution)
>
> TRAFFIC CALMING
>
> Traffic calming is a set of strategies used by urban planners and
> traffic engineers which aim to slow down or reduce traffic, thereby
> improving safety for pedestrians and bicyclists as well as improving
> the environment for residents. Calming measures are common in Europe,
> especially Northern Europe; less so in North America.
>
> Traffic calming was traditionally justified on the grounds of
> pedestrian safety and reduction of noise and local air pollution which
> are side effects of the traffic. However, streets have many social and
> recreational functions which are severely impaired by car traffic. The
> Livable Streets study by Donald Appleyard (circa 1977) found that
> residents of streets with light traffic had, on average, three more
> friends and twice as many acquaintances as the people on streets with
> heavy traffic which were otherwise similar in dimensions, income, etc.
> For much of the twentieth century, streets were designed by engineers
> who were charged only with ensuring traffic flow and not with
> fostering the other functions of streets. The basis for traffic
> calming is broadening traffic engineering to include designing for
> these functions.
>
> There are 3 "E"'s that traffic engineers refer to when discussing
> traffic calming: engineering, (community) education, and (police)
> enforcement. Because neighborhood traffic management studies have
> shown that often it is the residents themselves who are contributing
> to the perceived speeding problem within the neighborhood, it is
> stressed that the most effective traffic calming plans will entail all
> three components, and that engineering measures alone will not produce
> satisfactory results.
>
> A number of visual changes to roads are being made to many streets to
> bring about more attentive driving, reduced speeds, reduced crashes,
> and greater tendency to yield to pedestrians. Visual traffic calming
> includes lane narrowings (9-10'), road diets (reduction in lanes), use
> of trees next to streets, on-street parking, and buildings placed in
> urban fashion close to streets.
>
> Some additional traffic calming techniques that are often used are
> speed humps, speed cushions, and speed tables. These devices vary in
> size based on the desired speed. Humps, cushions and tables slow cars
> to between 10 and 25 miles per hour.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming
>
> COMING SOON
> http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/?l1=Coming+Soon:&l2=the&l3=Banana+Revolution!&l4=
>


All of that ignores the real problem that no one wants to deal with
because of the difficulties in implementing the solution.

The could be a decent life for everyone if the world's population was 2
to 2.5 Billion. At 6.5+ Billion or more, forget about it, and that
includes low enough traffic to make cycling reasonable almost everywhere.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
On Aug 5, 11:18 am, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Aug 5, 7:12 am, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...

>
> > > Andrew Muzi wrote:
> > >>>>>> However, I stand by my statement that the free-market has failed,
> > >>>>>> since there is no real free-market health care system in the US.

>
> > >>>>> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote
> > >>>>> Seeing as it's never really been tried, except perhaps many moons ago
> > >>>>> when health care was nowhere near as complex and expensive as it is
> > >>>>> now,

>
> > >>>> Joe the Aroma WHO? wrote:
> > >>>>> I think it's hasty to make that conclusion.

>
> > >>> "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote
> > >>>> My point exactly. The FREE MARKET is failing to provide free market
> > >>>> health care in the U.S.

>
> > >> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > >>> Mr. Sherman is quite corred on this matter of health care in the US. The
> > >>> present system is broken and cannot be fixed except by a single payer
> > >>> system (the government). Such a health care system will be like the
> > >>> public school system. It is not socialism, but simply good common sense.
> > >>> It ought to be financed via higher progressive income taxes on the rich
> > >>> and/or a value added tax on those who like to spend money on luxuries. A
> > >>> total no-brainer!

>
> > >> You have obviously not thought that through to its logical conclusion

>
> > > My logical conclusion was that I could not afford to get treatment for a
> > > chronic health problem, since my portion of the expenses was more than my
> > > discretionary income - and yes, I am "covered" under a[n] employer
> > > provided "health plan". I really need to start trying to get a job in
> > > Canada.

>
> > > More than 50% of recent personal bankruptcies in the US are from people
> > > who got sick, lost their jobs and/or health coverage or exceeded the
> > > coverage limits, and exhausted their financial assets on medical bills.
> > > Great system, eh?

>
> > Mr. Sherman is a professional civil engineer with a very good job and yet he
> > finds himself in trouble. That says it all.

>
> > No nation that has gone to government paid health care has ever voted to
> > give it up. Most of us do not want transplants or other heroic medical
> > procedures, but we do want garden variety health care. Heath care needs to
> > be made a right and not something you can only get if you can afford to pay
> > for it. Where the Hell did such a crazy idea ever come from in the first
> > place?

>
> > The sooner the present system goes kaput, the better. If I did not have the
> > VA, I would have to think about emigrating to Canada myself.

>
> I suggested this to you elsewhere: Relocate the capital to Ottawa. How
> would we go about it? (Within the Constitution, that is?)



Hey, that's where I live! We've got some very nice bike paths (sorry,
"multi-user recreational pathwways" that started out as just bike
paths) , about 180 kilometres worth. I use them on occasion, but
there is enough of a cycling presence here that most motorists are
pretty considerate. There are of course a few suburban arterial roads
that I'd rather not be on if I can help it, but then again I try to
avoid the suburbs in general.

That said, we have a severe shortage of family doctors here. In Ottawa
I think the number without a family physician is 40%. Of course there
are lots of walk-in clinics, but a regular family doctor is much
preferred as one gets old and starts needing those regular tests...

Mark
 
>> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
>>> On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
>>>>> OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
>>>>> you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
>>>>> SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...
>>>> Google "Hubbert's Peak.
>>> Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
>>> couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
>>> hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
>>> in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
>>> dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.


> "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote
>> How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
>> and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
>> Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
>> danger of cycling.


Edward Dolan wrote:
> Cycling on highways with lots of traffic and no shoulders is extremely
> dangerous. Even an idiot knows that much.


Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long gone
from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between buses in
the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah! Sitting home
*****ing will kill you sooner.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Andrew Muzi wrote:

> Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long gone
> from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between buses in
> the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah! Sitting home
> *****ing will kill you sooner.


Don't you find the commute much safer when UW is on break? The moronic
undergraduate pedestrians wandering out into the street and idiotic
motor scooter riders create considerable chaos.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
> Andrew Muzi wrote:
>> Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long
>> gone from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between
>> buses in the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah!
>> Sitting home *****ing will kill you sooner.


Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Don't you find the commute much safer when UW is on break? The moronic
> undergraduate pedestrians wandering out into the street and idiotic
> motor scooter riders create considerable chaos.


you're right. A drunk corn-fed 300lb Sophomore on a Spree is a daunting
sight careening through a red light.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Aug 5, 3:24 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
> >>> On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> donquijote1954 who? wrote:
> >>>>> OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
> >>>>> you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
> >>>>> SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...
> >>>> Google "Hubbert's Peak.
> >>> Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
> >>> couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
> >>> hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
> >>> in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
> >>> dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.

> > "Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote
> >> How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
> >> and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
> >> Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
> >> danger of cycling.

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > Cycling on highways with lots of traffic and no shoulders is extremely
> > dangerous. Even an idiot knows that much.

>
> Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long gone
> from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between buses in
> the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah! Sitting home
> *****ing will kill you sooner.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971-


For some people the option is STATIONARY BIKES. (And they come with
handlebars for upper body workout,)
 
On Aug 5, 3:28 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Andrew Muzi wrote:
> > Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long gone
> > from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between buses in
> > the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah! Sitting home
> > *****ing will kill you sooner.

>
> Don't you find the commute much safer when UW is on break? The moronic
> undergraduate pedestrians wandering out into the street and idiotic
> motor scooter riders create considerable chaos.


The scooters are not that idiotic. They fill a void particularly when
riding a bike in traffic puts you at odds with cars.

Mine is parked outside. ;)
 
On Aug 5, 4:26 pm, [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > On 04 Aug 2007 17:07:43 -0700, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
> > said in <[email protected]>:

>
> > >so you were a young, inexerpienced cyclist at one point and had
> > >problems that cleared up when you had more experience, but for some
> > >reason you attributed your former problems to bike lanes rather than
> > >to your lack of experience.

>
> > What always amuses me about your posts, Bill, is that you make
> > comments like this without spotting the self-evident irony.

>
> What's always amusing about you anti-bikelane fanatics is how you
> act like a bull in a china shop whenever anyone doesn't disparage
> bike lanes. :)
>
> > See how Tome points out what happened as he became a more
> > experienced and skilful cyclist? He took to not using cycle
> > "facilities", just as many other experienced cyclists choose to
> > avoid them, and for the same reasons: they fix a problem which is
> > largely illusory (danger from same direction traffic) at the expense
> > of increasing a danger which absolutely is not (danger at junctions
> > and from opposing traffic).

>
> Nope, he merely developed the skills needed to ride safely in traffic,
> and then got some sort of anti-bike lane religion,


I don't think the believes held by the anti-lane crowd is a
religion... It's a more of a sect, luckily mostly confined to America,
and some copycats in the UK.
 
donquijote1954 wrote:
> On Aug 5, 3:28 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>> Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long gone
>>> from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between buses in
>>> the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah! Sitting home
>>> *****ing will kill you sooner.

>> Don't you find the commute much safer when UW is on break? The moronic
>> undergraduate pedestrians wandering out into the street and idiotic
>> motor scooter riders create considerable chaos.

>
> The scooters are not that idiotic. They fill a void particularly when
> riding a bike in traffic puts you at odds with cars.
>
> Mine is parked outside. ;)


Note that the adjective "idiotic" modifies "riders", not "scooters".

Considering that motor scooters can travel the speed limit or more on
urban streets, and some can keep up with traffic on arterial roads, they
need to be operated the same way as motorcycles, not as bicycles.

However, in the area near Andrew's shop, it is not uncommon to find
students on scooters riding at considerable speed on the side walk,
across pedestrian only areas, running stop signs and stop lights, etc.

When climate allows, modern scooters (with low emission engines) are
more desirable than single occupant cars, since they use less fuel and
space.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
Edward Dolan wrote:

> I most emphatically agree with Mr. Sherman's point of view on population.
> Unfortunately, the human species is programmed to reproduce like crazy
> lemmings.


Evolution has a way of doing that - programming surviving species to
"reproduce".

Dana
 

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