Re: Time to bomb Iran?

[[email protected]]

Neil Immerman's web site:
===================================================================
an excerpt:

# In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire
# that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications
# director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to
# Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told
# me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which
# I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

# The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the
# reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe
# that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible
# reality.' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment
# principles and empiricism. He cut me off. 'That's not the way the
# world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now,
# and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're
# studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act
# again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and
# that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and
# you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

--
Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Bill Sornson writes:

>>>> Quite correct, I'm Jewish and think that Lieberman is a fascist.
>>>> He's the senator from Likud and worse, a true neocon. The really
>>>> sad part is that bombing Iran will likely result in the
>>>> destruction of Israel.

>>> None of you apparently read what Lieberman actually /said/, and
>>> instead are going by what EDWARD DOLAN said he said! Might as
>>> well be blog blather... (Hint: he mentioned one base that's close
>>> to the Iran/Iraq border, that's been proven to be supplying both
>>> arms and men to both the insurgency AND the Taliban. Only in your
>>> world view would it be "fascist" to respond.)

>> It would be amusing, were it not so tragic, to see Americans like
>> Bill Sornson thinking that there is something so terrible about
>> Iran supplying arms to its neighbour and its coreligionists, while
>> the USA has invaded that country, thousands of miles away, for no
>> good reason, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths and many more
>> to come when they pull out.

> Iran is violating International Law by aiding and abetting the
> Taliban. I thought you guys actually CARE what the U.N. says. LOL
> My bad.

> Enjoy your ostrichnesshood...

Speak for yourself. You seem to be swimming against a mighty current,
relying on flag waving believers in classic USA hubris. Look at the
big picture: How many lies got us into war with Iraq, the reasons
morphed as each of the reasons turned out to be without basis and
false. Nation building has also faded into the brave new world. We
are repeatedly told that, in effect, "there is light at the end of the
tunnel", but these words are not used to fool those who don't see the
folly of the US path.

I take it you don't give a damn what the rest of the world, especially
our allies and trading partners, think of our war, and the illegal
means that were used to move it through our legislature.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

On Jun 14, 7:30 am, Peter Cole wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Dear Andres,
>
> > I think that calling Senator Joe Lieberman Jew Lieberman speaks for
> > itself.
>
> I've got to agree with this.
>
> I'd consider myself anti-Zionist, but that hardly means anti-semitic. I
> think the above name-calling steps over the line.

See <http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[[email protected]]

John Forrest Tomlinson writes:

>> Iran is violating International Law by aiding and abetting the
>> Taliban. I thought you guys actually CARE what the U.N. says.

> Sorni, are you suggesting that because Iran is strongly alleged to
> be violating international law they should be bombed? If so, think
> about it a little more carefully. That's like looking at some
> bad-looking dude who you think did serious crimes in your town and
> deciding to kill or torture him and then lock him up indefinitely
> w/o any sort of trial. Oh wait, that's the sort of thing you believe
> in...

> OK, think about this -- are you saying that any country that
> violates international law should be bombed? What about a country
> that, say, has it's agents kidnap people around the world and send
> them to a third country to be tortured? What about that?

Hey! We were raised on "John Wayne justice" in years of westerns
where that was the way it was proper. No wonder some viewers of these
fables believe in the method. We are a nation that glorifies
criminals and ruffians. Just look at the names of many of the
professional sports teams that are a religion to many of the best flag
wavers (Outlaws, Pirates, Renegades...). The World Series!

Jobst Brandt

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

On Jun 14, 10:01 am, Andres Muro wrote:
> On Jun 14, 8:23 am, Carl Riehm wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Bill Sornson wrote:
> > > dgk wrote:
>
> > >> Quite correct, I'm Jewish and think that Lieberman is a fascist. He's
> > >> the senator from Likud and worse, a true neocon. The really sad part
> > >> is that bombing Iran will likely result in the destruction of Israel.
>
> > > None of you apparently read what Lieberman actually /said/, and instead are
> > > going by what EDWARD DOLAN said he said! Might as well be blog blather...
>
> > > (Hint: he mentioned one base that's close to the Iran/Iraq border, that's
> > > been proven to be supplying both arms and men to both the insurgency AND the
> > > Taliban. Only in your world view would it be "fascist" to respond.)
>
> > It would be amusing, were it not so tragic, to see Americans like Bill
> > Sornson thinking that there is something so terrible about Iran supplying
> > arms to its neighbour and its coreligionists, while the USA has invaded
> > that country, thousands of miles away, for no good reason, causing
> > hundreds of thousands of deaths and many more to come when they pull out.
>
> What is sad about the whole thing is that the government makes
> decisions without consulting people with expertise about culture,
> history, past, etc. Then they act surprise when there is anti-american
> sentiment. Also, they declare things that if you know anything about
> the culture you know that it is a lie. But, if you are gullible, you
> buy into it. For example, a senior official declared that there is
> evidence that Iran is supplying guns to the Taliban. this is
> borderline absurd. Of course, the senior official is not educated
> enough, nor he cares to understand the differences between Iran and
> the Taliban.

Hey, it is just like the Catholic and Protestants in Northern Ireland.
Since they are both Christian sects, they must be allies; right?

Do we forget that Iran almost went to war against the Taliban, and
even aided the US in (temporarily?) driving the Taliban from power?

> They just make a statement and hope the americans who
> love Budwiser would beleive it and that is it. To most Americans,
> Iran, Iraq, the Taliban and afganistan are the same thing. they don't
> give a hoot as to the differences. As long as we can keep drinking bud
> light, who cares what the white house tells us. All we worry about is
> when the government says that we need to bomb Iran, or they'll take
> our miller away.

Most USians do not realize than the Iranians are not Arabs, and the
people who wear Turbans are Sikhs, not Arabs, rendering the ethnic
insult "towel head" as ignorant as those who use it.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[datakoll]

( ) ( )

 

[datakoll]

On Jun 14, 11:16 pm, datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
> ( ) ( )

that's arabic on jigs.

let's see if I unnerstan this BS

cyclists are divided on Iran the bully of the ME
one side believes Iran should have nuclear weapons
and one side believes Iran should not have nuclear weapons?
for example, Jobst Brandt, whose native country, and of Brandt's own
skills, is a primary force in destroying the planet, believes Iran
should have nuclear weapons to bully the ME.

 

[Johnny Sunset]

On Jun 14, 10:25 pm, datakoll wrote:
> On Jun 14, 11:16 pm, datakoll wrote:
>
> > ( ) ( )
>
> that's arabic on jigs.
>
> let's see if I unnerstan this BS
>
> cyclists are divided on Iran the bully of the ME
> one side believes Iran should have nuclear weapons
> and one side believes Iran should not have nuclear weapons?
> for example, Jobst Brandt, whose native country, and of Brandt's own
> skills, is a primary force in destroying the planet, believes Iran
> should have nuclear weapons to bully the ME.

Brandt's own skills??? We will never stop the Iranians from victory,
since they have wheels with Mavic MA-2 rims and 36 double butted,
stress relieved spokes tensioned as high as the rim will bear!!!

The Iranians have also learned to lean from Brandt: <http://
www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/images/tiretest.jpg>!!!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Bill]

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:25:43 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Bob in CT wrote:
>
>>> You mean like the UN said (or at least agreed with) that Iraq had
>>> weapons of mass destruction?
>> Yes.
>
>
> Bill, what are your sources of news of the world?
>
His dreams, what else.
Bill Baka

 

[Bill]

[email protected] wrote:
> John Forrest Tomlinson writes:
>
>>> Iran is violating International Law by aiding and abetting the
>>> Taliban. I thought you guys actually CARE what the U.N. says.
>
>> Sorni, are you suggesting that because Iran is strongly alleged to
>> be violating international law they should be bombed? If so, think
>> about it a little more carefully. That's like looking at some
>> bad-looking dude who you think did serious crimes in your town and
>> deciding to kill or torture him and then lock him up indefinitely
>> w/o any sort of trial. Oh wait, that's the sort of thing you believe
>> in...
>
>> OK, think about this -- are you saying that any country that
>> violates international law should be bombed? What about a country
>> that, say, has it's agents kidnap people around the world and send
>> them to a third country to be tortured? What about that?
>
> Hey! We were raised on "John Wayne justice" in years of westerns
> where that was the way it was proper. No wonder some viewers of these
> fables believe in the method. We are a nation that glorifies
> criminals and ruffians. Just look at the names of many of the
> professional sports teams that are a religion to many of the best flag
> wavers (Outlaws, Pirates, Renegades...). The World Series!
>
> Jobst Brandt

****, man.
We aren't the only country breaking the Geneva conference laws.
However, any religious group that films themselves hacking off a live
guys head and displaying it on his corpse is a good candidate for us and
Russia to lob over some 50 Megaton 'eradicators' just for weapons
testing purposes, right?
This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
Bill Baka

 

[Johnny Sunset]

On Jun 14, 11:28 pm, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > John Forrest Tomlinson writes:
>
> >>> Iran is violating International Law by aiding and abetting the
> >>> Taliban. I thought you guys actually CARE what the U.N. says.
>
> >> Sorni, are you suggesting that because Iran is strongly alleged to
> >> be violating international law they should be bombed? If so, think
> >> about it a little more carefully. That's like looking at some
> >> bad-looking dude who you think did serious crimes in your town and
> >> deciding to kill or torture him and then lock him up indefinitely
> >> w/o any sort of trial. Oh wait, that's the sort of thing you believe
> >> in...
>
> >> OK, think about this -- are you saying that any country that
> >> violates international law should be bombed? What about a country
> >> that, say, has it's agents kidnap people around the world and send
> >> them to a third country to be tortured? What about that?
>
> > Hey! We were raised on "John Wayne justice" in years of westerns
> > where that was the way it was proper. No wonder some viewers of these
> > fables believe in the method. We are a nation that glorifies
> > criminals and ruffians. Just look at the names of many of the
> > professional sports teams that are a religion to many of the best flag
> > wavers (Outlaws, Pirates, Renegades...). The World Series!
>
> > Jobst Brandt
>
> ****, man.
> We aren't the only country breaking the Geneva conference laws.
> However, any religious group that films themselves hacking off a live
> guys head and displaying it on his corpse is a good candidate for us and
> Russia to lob over some 50 Megaton 'eradicators' just for weapons
> testing purposes, right?

Would the medieval "Christians" have filmed burnings at the stake of
"heretics" if the technology had been available?

> This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
> away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
> radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
> Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
> Bill Baka

This post is more stupid than claiming to have gone 50 mph on a
children's tricycle.

With a display of ignorance of the beliefs and actions of the vast
majority of Muslim's that Baka displays here, it is no wonder they
hate us.

If the US were to be so foolish as to use nuclear weapons against Iran
in an aggressive strike, the world will not forgive and forget. When
the inevitable retaliation of a nuclear bomb being exploded in New
York or Los Angeles occurs, the rest of the world will say, "what goes
around comes around".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
Conason

 

[R Brickston]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:33:29 -0700, Johnny Sunset
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Jun 14, 11:28 pm, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>> > John Forrest Tomlinson writes:
>>
>> >>> Iran is violating International Law by aiding and abetting the
>> >>> Taliban. I thought you guys actually CARE what the U.N. says.
>>
>> >> Sorni, are you suggesting that because Iran is strongly alleged to
>> >> be violating international law they should be bombed? If so, think
>> >> about it a little more carefully. That's like looking at some
>> >> bad-looking dude who you think did serious crimes in your town and
>> >> deciding to kill or torture him and then lock him up indefinitely
>> >> w/o any sort of trial. Oh wait, that's the sort of thing you believe
>> >> in...
>>
>> >> OK, think about this -- are you saying that any country that
>> >> violates international law should be bombed? What about a country
>> >> that, say, has it's agents kidnap people around the world and send
>> >> them to a third country to be tortured? What about that?
>>
>> > Hey! We were raised on "John Wayne justice" in years of westerns
>> > where that was the way it was proper. No wonder some viewers of these
>> > fables believe in the method. We are a nation that glorifies
>> > criminals and ruffians. Just look at the names of many of the
>> > professional sports teams that are a religion to many of the best flag
>> > wavers (Outlaws, Pirates, Renegades...). The World Series!
>>
>> > Jobst Brandt
>>
>> ****, man.
>> We aren't the only country breaking the Geneva conference laws.
>> However, any religious group that films themselves hacking off a live
>> guys head and displaying it on his corpse is a good candidate for us and
>> Russia to lob over some 50 Megaton 'eradicators' just for weapons
>> testing purposes, right?
>
>Would the medieval "Christians" have filmed burnings at the stake of
>"heretics" if the technology had been available?
>
>> This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>> away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>> radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>> Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>> Bill Baka
>
>This post is more stupid than claiming to have gone 50 mph on a
>children's tricycle.
>
>With a display of ignorance of the beliefs and actions of the vast
>majority of Muslim's that Baka displays here, it is no wonder they
>hate us.
>
>If the US were to be so foolish as to use nuclear weapons against Iran
>in an aggressive strike, the world will not forgive and forget. When
>the inevitable retaliation of a nuclear bomb being exploded in New
>York or Los Angeles occurs, the rest of the world will say, "what goes
>around comes around".

Goes to Baka's frame of mind: A. Delusional; B. Lives in a fantasy
world; C. Pathological liar.

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:01:51 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> wrote:


>Most USians do not realize than the Iranians are not Arabs, and the
>people who wear Turbans are Sikhs, not Arabs, rendering the ethnic
>insult "towel head" as ignorant as those who use it.

Who cares about these details, they're all dark skinned and they all
hate us for our way of life and the freedom we believe in.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

 

[dgk]

On 15 Jun 2007 02:01:23 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Another perspective:
>======================================================================
>Dollar down, time to buy real estate in San Francisco Bay Area
>playground of the rich! London, Paris, it's all good!
>
> Published on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 by The Nation Wall Street, Iraq
>and the Declining Dollar by Ken Miller
>
>The disastrous impact on the economy of George W. Bush's response to
>the attacks of September 2001 is still being measured. On Friday of
>last week the Bush Administration announced that it would not
>renominate Gen. Peter Pace as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
....
>
>If our military cannot secure oil by force, and if oil is destined to
>cost us more and more of a declining currency to buy what is
>available, then "brand USA" is in trouble. When Bush leaves office,
>this country will have to begin the difficult task of reversing some
>very bad trends in the military, fiscal, monetary and energy areas.
>The pollution of his legacy transcends mere politics.
>
>Ken Miller is chairman and CEO of Ken Miller Capital LLC in New York.
>
>© 2007 The Nation

Thanks for the quote. I don't read the Wall Street Journal much so I
would have missed it.

 

[Clive George]

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Most USians do not realize than the Iranians are not Arabs, and the
> people who wear Turbans are Sikhs, not Arabs, rendering the ethnic
> insult "towel head" as ignorant as those who use it.

"Towel head" isn't about turbans, it's about the arab dress style which
involves apparently wearing a tea-towel upon one's head.

Or have I just missed something?

cheers,
clive

 

[walleyeangler]

Pray Jesus, save me from your followers.




--
walleyeangler

 

[Bill]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 14, 11:28 pm, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ****, man.
>> We aren't the only country breaking the Geneva conference laws.
>> However, any religious group that films themselves hacking off a live
>> guys head and displaying it on his corpse is a good candidate for us and
>> Russia to lob over some 50 Megaton 'eradicators' just for weapons
>> testing purposes, right?
>
> Would the medieval "Christians" have filmed burnings at the stake of
> "heretics" if the technology had been available?

Absolutely. Then they would have made posters and put them on all the
corners. They used to burn people at the stake for simple heresy, or
disagreeing with the church in any trivial way. Remember, the Earth was
the center of the entire Universe and the church decreed that was the
truth according to God. Yeah, right.
>
>> This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>> away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>> radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>> Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>> Bill Baka
>
> This post is more stupid than claiming to have gone 50 mph on a
> children's tricycle.

I will probably hear about that troll bait until I give up on posting here.
>
> With a display of ignorance of the beliefs and actions of the vast
> majority of Muslim's that Baka displays here, it is no wonder they
> hate us.

I would just as soon nuke all hard core Christians too. We would have
colonies on Mars by now if the Vatican/pope/whoever ran the church,
hadn't stifled invention for over a 1,000 years.
>
> If the US were to be so foolish as to use nuclear weapons against Iran
> in an aggressive strike, the world will not forgive and forget. When
> the inevitable retaliation of a nuclear bomb being exploded in New
> York or Los Angeles occurs, the rest of the world will say, "what goes
> around comes around".

To be sort of on topic here, where did Iran get all those nice shiny new
Russian weapons to give to the terrorists? Ever since they influenced an
election by getting Carter tossed by the 'hostage crisis' they have been
getting bolder. Do you think we would be in Darfur if they had any oil?
Damn fast, I bet.
Bill Baka
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
> discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
> Conason
>

 

[Johnny Sunset]

On Jun 15, 11:10 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
>
> I think there is a twist of fate that has been overlooked.
> Ever since Bush #1 invaded Iraq and left the "Highway of death", and did
> not finish the job by getting Hussein, ALL Muslims have hated the US.
> Having Bush #2 elected was the straw that broke the camel's back with
> them. They didn't hate the US that badly, since we rescued Kuwait, but
> they did hate the Bush name. When dipshit junior got elected...

....5 to 4 by the US Supreme Court. A full recount would have shown
Gore winning Florida, even after Katherine Harris and Choicepoint
purged thousands of voters that should have been eligible. Same story
with the Blackwell purges and other machinations in Ohio in 2004.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
Conason

 

[Bill]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 15, 11:10 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
>> I think there is a twist of fate that has been overlooked.
>> Ever since Bush #1 invaded Iraq and left the "Highway of death", and did
>> not finish the job by getting Hussein, ALL Muslims have hated the US.
>> Having Bush #2 elected was the straw that broke the camel's back with
>> them. They didn't hate the US that badly, since we rescued Kuwait, but
>> they did hate the Bush name. When dipshit junior got elected...
>
> ...5 to 4 by the US Supreme Court. A full recount would have shown
> Gore winning Florida, even after Katherine Harris and Choicepoint
> purged thousands of voters that should have been eligible. Same story
> with the Blackwell purges and other machinations in Ohio in 2004.

You don't expect I'm going to argue against this, I hope.
Corruption got him in in 2000, and even more corruption made the vote
look upon him as the winner in 2004. My sister, friends and I can't even
begin to figure out how those 'foolproof' voting computers made such a
big blunder. I would rather have hanging chads than computer data where
a misplaced 1 or 0 can affect a whole election. Who handled the data?
Probably Republican appointees.
Bill Baka
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
> discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
> Conason
>
>

 

[Bill Sornson]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 15, 11:10 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
>>
>> I think there is a twist of fate that has been overlooked.
>> Ever since Bush #1 invaded Iraq and left the "Highway of death", and
>> did not finish the job by getting Hussein, ALL Muslims have hated
>> the US. Having Bush #2 elected was the straw that broke the camel's
>> back with them. They didn't hate the US that badly, since we rescued
>> Kuwait, but they did hate the Bush name. When dipshit junior got
>> elected...
>
> ...5 to 4 by the US Supreme Court. A full recount would have shown
> Gore winning Florida, even after Katherine Harris and Choicepoint
> purged thousands of voters that should have been eligible. Same story
> with the Blackwell purges and other machinations in Ohio in 2004.

{cough} horseshit {cough}