Re: Time to bomb Iran?



On Jun 16, 8:25 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> > On Jun 16, 4:13 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
> >> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >>> On Jun 16, 12:59 pm, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:21:47 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >>>> ...
> >>>>> This is likely only the tip of the iceberg.

>
> >>>> Rather than go through point by point, here's why I think most of
> >>>> this is bs, Dems are in charge of both houses, why no committee
> >>>> hearings, panels and other inquisitions? In fact, the only outrage
> >>>> seems to come from the fringes.

>
> >>> Enough outrage in Ohio to elect Democrats in 2006, despite the
> >>> "structural" disadvantages.

>
> >>> The mainstream media and pundits would ridicule anyone who revisits
> >>> the earlier elections, with the stupid "get over it" retort.

>
> >> You've GOT to be kidding.

>
> > Oh please. How many "Sore/Loserman" comments were there at the end of
> > 2001?

>
> I hear more about how Gore "really won" that elelction now than ever before
> (other than immediately after). Hell, watch PMSNBC and it's either that or
> Scooter Libby, 24/7.


Buyer's remorse from the mainstream media that ignored all of Bush's
faults until it was too late?

> >>> Note that
> >>> Brickston uses the term "fringes", indicating he has the same
> >>> mindset.

>
> >>> Many Democrats feed from the same campaign contribution trough as
> >>> the Republicans. - "As long as I get mine, I won't rock the boat".

>
> >> Horseshit. If they could discredit the 2004 elelction by any means
> >> whatsoever, they would do it.

>
> >> You keep forgetting: the SHADOW GOVERNMENT! (Why else did they
> >> wait till well after the 2006 elections to indict William
> >> Jeffererson, D LA, for crimes committed -- on tape -- in 2004 and
> >> even earlier?!?)

>
> > Got to stop listening to so much talk radio or Faux News, or whatever
> > you get your wacko ideas from - they are more out there than Bill
> > Baka's 50-mph kiddie tricycle ride.

>
> You don't think the press "cooperated" in Macaca, Foley, Libby, etc. while
> all but completely ignoring Berger, Jefferson, and now Feinstein?!? (Her
> husband made millions fron defense contracts while she sat on the
> Appropriations Committee, and NO ONE says a word about it. Do you honestly
> think they'd ignore a Republican doing that?!?)
>
> Get real. (Not faux.)


The mainstream press gave a total pass on the BS that was being passed
off as "evidence" of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al
Qaeda, until it was several years too late.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
 
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> On Jun 16, 8:25 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>> On Jun 16, 4:13 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
>>>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 16, 12:59 pm, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:21:47 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> This is likely only the tip of the iceberg.

>>
>>>>>> Rather than go through point by point, here's why I think most of
>>>>>> this is bs, Dems are in charge of both houses, why no committee
>>>>>> hearings, panels and other inquisitions? In fact, the only
>>>>>> outrage seems to come from the fringes.

>>
>>>>> Enough outrage in Ohio to elect Democrats in 2006, despite the
>>>>> "structural" disadvantages.

>>
>>>>> The mainstream media and pundits would ridicule anyone who
>>>>> revisits the earlier elections, with the stupid "get over it"
>>>>> retort.

>>
>>>> You've GOT to be kidding.

>>
>>> Oh please. How many "Sore/Loserman" comments were there at the end
>>> of 2001?

>>
>> I hear more about how Gore "really won" that elelction now than ever
>> before (other than immediately after). Hell, watch PMSNBC and it's
>> either that or Scooter Libby, 24/7.

>
> Buyer's remorse from the mainstream media that ignored all of Bush's
> faults until it was too late?


Absurd. They despised him from the start (SCOTUS decision -- NOT HIS FAULT
by the way); couldn't wait to start undermining him at every turn.

>>>>> Note that
>>>>> Brickston uses the term "fringes", indicating he has the same
>>>>> mindset.

>>
>>>>> Many Democrats feed from the same campaign contribution trough as
>>>>> the Republicans. - "As long as I get mine, I won't rock the boat".

>>
>>>> Horseshit. If they could discredit the 2004 elelction by any means
>>>> whatsoever, they would do it.

>>
>>>> You keep forgetting: the SHADOW GOVERNMENT! (Why else did they
>>>> wait till well after the 2006 elections to indict William
>>>> Jeffererson, D LA, for crimes committed -- on tape -- in 2004 and
>>>> even earlier?!?)

>>
>>> Got to stop listening to so much talk radio or Faux News, or
>>> whatever you get your wacko ideas from - they are more out there
>>> than Bill Baka's 50-mph kiddie tricycle ride.

>>
>> You don't think the press "cooperated" in Macaca, Foley, Libby, etc.
>> while all but completely ignoring Berger, Jefferson, and now
>> Feinstein?!? (Her husband made millions fron defense contracts
>> while she sat on the Appropriations Committee, and NO ONE says a
>> word about it. Do you honestly think they'd ignore a Republican
>> doing that?!?)
>>
>> Get real. (Not faux.)

>
> The mainstream press gave a total pass on the BS that was being passed
> off as "evidence" of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al
> Qaeda, until it was several years too late.


Get real...again. Read Kerry's and especially Hillary's CASE FOR WAR
delivered on Senate floor. Read UNMOVIC reports and
American/Russian/British/Israely/FRENCH intelligence. Listen to Al Gore in
the '90s connecting -- passionately -- Saddam to terrorist organizations.

Are you an ostrich in real life or just play one on the Internet?

Out. BS (not)
 
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 19:41:05 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Get real...again. Read Kerry's and especially Hillary's CASE FOR WAR
>delivered on Senate floor. Read UNMOVIC reports and
>American/Russian/British/Israely/FRENCH intelligence. Listen to Al Gore in
>the '90s connecting -- passionately -- Saddam to terrorist organizations.
>
>Are you an ostrich in real life or just play one on the Internet?


The funniest thing is that you still seem to believe the decisions
made at that time were right. You neglect the cherry-picking of
intelligence, the use of intelligence known to be wrong, and the fact
that many people in Congress and the media were duped.

They should have done better. They should have been more skeptical.

But your pals who did the duping have blood on their hands. And you
still support them.

--
JT
****************************
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On Jun 16, 9:41 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > On Jun 16, 8:25 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
> >> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >>> On Jun 16, 4:13 pm, Bill Sornson wrote:
> >>>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >>>>> On Jun 16, 12:59 pm, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:21:47 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>> This is likely only the tip of the iceberg.

>
> >>>>>> Rather than go through point by point, here's why I think most of
> >>>>>> this is bs, Dems are in charge of both houses, why no committee
> >>>>>> hearings, panels and other inquisitions? In fact, the only
> >>>>>> outrage seems to come from the fringes.

>
> >>>>> Enough outrage in Ohio to elect Democrats in 2006, despite the
> >>>>> "structural" disadvantages.

>
> >>>>> The mainstream media and pundits would ridicule anyone who
> >>>>> revisits the earlier elections, with the stupid "get over it"
> >>>>> retort.

>
> >>>> You've GOT to be kidding.

>
> >>> Oh please. How many "Sore/Loserman" comments were there at the end
> >>> of 2001?

>
> >> I hear more about how Gore "really won" that elelction now than ever
> >> before (other than immediately after). Hell, watch PMSNBC and it's
> >> either that or Scooter Libby, 24/7.

>
> > Buyer's remorse from the mainstream media that ignored all of Bush's
> > faults until it was too late?

>
> Absurd. They despised him from the start (SCOTUS decision -- NOT HIS FAULT
> by the way); couldn't wait to start undermining him at every turn.


Oh come on - the mainstream press never challenged the administration,
because they would lose "access". Besides, the major media is owned by
the corporate class that heavily donates money to Republicans,
including Bush.

There were plenty of reasons to dislike Bush that had nothing to do
with the Bush vs. Gore decision. We could start with Bush's
aristocratic "How dare you question me" attitude.

> >>>>> Note that
> >>>>> Brickston uses the term "fringes", indicating he has the same
> >>>>> mindset.

>
> >>>>> Many Democrats feed from the same campaign contribution trough as
> >>>>> the Republicans. - "As long as I get mine, I won't rock the boat".

>
> >>>> Horseshit. If they could discredit the 2004 elelction by any means
> >>>> whatsoever, they would do it.

>
> >>>> You keep forgetting: the SHADOW GOVERNMENT! (Why else did they
> >>>> wait till well after the 2006 elections to indict William
> >>>> Jeffererson, D LA, for crimes committed -- on tape -- in 2004 and
> >>>> even earlier?!?)

>
> >>> Got to stop listening to so much talk radio or Faux News, or
> >>> whatever you get your wacko ideas from - they are more out there
> >>> than Bill Baka's 50-mph kiddie tricycle ride.

>
> >> You don't think the press "cooperated" in Macaca, Foley, Libby, etc.
> >> while all but completely ignoring Berger, Jefferson, and now
> >> Feinstein?!? (Her husband made millions fron defense contracts
> >> while she sat on the Appropriations Committee, and NO ONE says a
> >> word about it. Do you honestly think they'd ignore a Republican
> >> doing that?!?)

>
> >> Get real. (Not faux.)

>
> > The mainstream press gave a total pass on the BS that was being passed
> > off as "evidence" of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al
> > Qaeda, until it was several years too late.

>
> Get real...again. Read Kerry's and especially Hillary's CASE FOR WAR
> delivered on Senate floor. Read UNMOVIC reports and
> American/Russian/British/Israely/FRENCH intelligence. Listen to Al Gore in
> the '90s connecting -- passionately -- Saddam to terrorist organizations.


So we are talking about DLC DINOs that are funded by and support the
corporate class. They (except Gore) are guilty for supporting the
Conquest of Iraq with their votes, whether out of conviction or
political fear. Compared to Cheney/Bush, their positive aspect is they
are the lesser of two evils.

> Are you an ostrich in real life or just play one on the Internet?


Bill Sornson needs to figure out that I am not a partisan Democrat.
Sheesh!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
 
Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 16, 6:30 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:40:01 -0700, Johnny Sunset

> The National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago did
> a review of all machine uncounted ballots with the following results:
>
> Standard as set by each county Canvassing Board during their survey -
> Gore by 171
> Fully punched chads and limited marks on optical ballots - Gore by 115
> Any dimples or optical mark - Gore by 107
> One corner of chad detached or optical mark - Gore by 60
>
> This, of course, ignores all the other efforts to suppress the vote in
> precincts known to favor democrats.


Funny how Bush babies' brother Jeb is the governor of Floriduh?
Can we say "Rigged"?
Bill Baka
>
 
Johnny Sunset wrote:
> As a pre-schooler, I exceeded the speed on which I could keep my feet
> on the pedals of my trike while going downhill. Based on my estimates
> of the drive wheel diameter [1] and maximum possible cadence, I was
> probably going 8-10 mph.
>
> [1] This was of course, a front-wheel-direct-drive, moving bottom
> bracket, upright delta trike.
>

I found a picture of me on that bike at about 4 years old and I don't
think you could possibly pedal a wheel that small more than 5 MPH.
What I really remember was the thought that the pedals were going so
fast I would probably break a leg if I tried to get my feet back on the
pedals. To actually get wind in the face on a tricycle does count as an
accomplishment, even if it was only at about 20 MPH.
They didn't have cyclo-computers for tricycles back then, and even if
they did, they would have had to use tubes. The computer would have
weighed more than me and the bike, and then there's the battery problem.
Bill Baka
 
On Jun 16, 11:27 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
> ...To actually get wind in the face on a tricycle does count as an
> accomplishment, even if it was only at about 20 MPH....


This statement should be qualified as referring to children's
tricycles. I have had my current trike [1] to near 50-mph, but it is
considerably more advanced (freehub and Avid disc brakes among other
things) than the tricycle I had when I was 3 years old.

[1] <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df1a.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 16, 11:27 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
>> ...To actually get wind in the face on a tricycle does count as an
>> accomplishment, even if it was only at about 20 MPH....

>
> This statement should be qualified as referring to children's
> tricycles. I have had my current trike [1] to near 50-mph, but it is
> considerably more advanced (freehub and Avid disc brakes among other
> things) than the tricycle I had when I was 3 years old.
>
> [1] <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df1a.jpg>.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>

If I can find a way to post the picture I might put it on one of my 2
websites, but basically I'm too computer lazy, today at least.
Interesting that I manually deleted any posts from Brickston and Sorni
and the debate has been raging all day long while I have been playing
with a Ubuntu Linux install.
You guys will argue anything to death.
I'm not needed to fuel the fire. Brickston+Sorni+Sunset is like napalm.
Bill Baka
 
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 04:27:59 GMT, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> As a pre-schooler, I exceeded the speed on which I could keep my feet
>> on the pedals of my trike while going downhill. Based on my estimates
>> of the drive wheel diameter [1] and maximum possible cadence, I was
>> probably going 8-10 mph.
>>
>> [1] This was of course, a front-wheel-direct-drive, moving bottom
>> bracket, upright delta trike.
>>

>I found a picture of me on that bike at about 4 years old and I don't
>think you could possibly pedal a wheel that small more than 5 MPH.
>What I really remember was the thought that the pedals were going so
>fast I would probably break a leg if I tried to get my feet back on the
>pedals. To actually get wind in the face on a tricycle does count as an
>accomplishment, even if it was only at about 20 MPH.
>They didn't have cyclo-computers for tricycles back then, and even if
>they did, they would have had to use tubes. The computer would have
>weighed more than me and the bike, and then there's the battery problem.
>Bill Baka


Next time anyone coasts down a hill, do about 20 MPH and try and
imagine a 4 year old on a tricycle alongside you. I'm guessing that
little Billy was doing maybe 8-10 MPH and he wet his pants.
 
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:56:26 -0700, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> On Jun 16, 11:27 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
>>> ...To actually get wind in the face on a tricycle does count as an
>>> accomplishment, even if it was only at about 20 MPH....

>>
>> This statement should be qualified as referring to children's
>> tricycles. I have had my current trike [1] to near 50-mph, but it is
>> considerably more advanced (freehub and Avid disc brakes among other
>> things) than the tricycle I had when I was 3 years old.
>>
>> [1] <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df1a.jpg>.
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>>

>If I can find a way to post the picture I might put it on one of my 2
>websites, but basically I'm too computer lazy, today at least.
>Interesting that I manually deleted any posts from Brickston and Sorni
>and the debate has been raging all day long while I have been playing
>with a Ubuntu Linux install.
>You guys will argue anything to death.
>I'm not needed to fuel the fire. Brickston+Sorni+Sunset is like napalm.
>Bill Baka


Baka is our own special needs contributor.
 
On Jun 17, 6:43 am, R Brickston wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 04:27:59 GMT, Bill Baka wrote:
> >Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >> As a pre-schooler, I exceeded the speed on which I could keep my feet
> >> on the pedals of my trike while going downhill. Based on my estimates
> >> of the drive wheel diameter [1] and maximum possible cadence, I was
> >> probably going 8-10 mph.

>
> >> [1] This was of course, a front-wheel-direct-drive, moving bottom
> >> bracket, upright delta trike.

>
> >I found a picture of me on that bike at about 4 years old and I don't
> >think you could possibly pedal a wheel that small more than 5 MPH.
> >What I really remember was the thought that the pedals were going so
> >fast I would probably break a leg if I tried to get my feet back on the
> >pedals. To actually get wind in the face on a tricycle does count as an
> >accomplishment, even if it was only at about 20 MPH.
> >They didn't have cyclo-computers for tricycles back then, and even if
> >they did, they would have had to use tubes. The computer would have
> >weighed more than me and the bike, and then there's the battery problem.


Mechanical speedometer/odometers were available.

> Next time anyone coasts down a hill, do about 20 MPH and try and
> imagine a 4 year old on a tricycle alongside you. I'm guessing that
> little Billy was doing maybe 8-10 MPH and he wet his pants.


My memory indicates that the 8-10 mph did feel like 50 mph, since
kiddie trikes are/were not designed for anything but use on relatively
flat ground.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
R Brickston wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:56:26 -0700, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>> On Jun 16, 11:27 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
>>>> ...To actually get wind in the face on a tricycle does count as an
>>>> accomplishment, even if it was only at about 20 MPH....
>>>
>>> This statement should be qualified as referring to children's
>>> tricycles. I have had my current trike [1] to near 50-mph, but it is
>>> considerably more advanced (freehub and Avid disc brakes among other
>>> things) than the tricycle I had when I was 3 years old.
>>>
>>> [1] <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df1a.jpg>.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>>> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>>>

>> If I can find a way to post the picture I might put it on one of my 2
>> websites, but basically I'm too computer lazy, today at least.
>> Interesting that I manually deleted any posts from Brickston and
>> Sorni and the debate has been raging all day long while I have been
>> playing with a Ubuntu Linux install.
>> You guys will argue anything to death.
>> I'm not needed to fuel the fire. Brickston+Sorni+Sunset is like
>> napalm. Bill Baka

>
> Baka is our own special needs contributor.


Boy, for a "computer expert" Bill sure seems to have trouble doing the
simplest things (plonking a poster, posting a pic, picking a nose...)...
LOL
 
On Jun 17, 2:18 pm, Bill Sornson aka Sorni wrote:
> ...
> Boy, for a "computer expert" Bill [Baka] sure seems to have trouble doing the
> simplest things (plonking a poster, posting a pic, picking a nose...


One wonders how Sorni knows about the last item.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:18:34 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>R Brickston wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:56:26 -0700, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>>> On Jun 16, 11:27 pm, Bill Baka wrote:
>>>>> ...To actually get wind in the face on a tricycle does count as an
>>>>> accomplishment, even if it was only at about 20 MPH....
>>>>
>>>> This statement should be qualified as referring to children's
>>>> tricycles. I have had my current trike [1] to near 50-mph, but it is
>>>> considerably more advanced (freehub and Avid disc brakes among other
>>>> things) than the tricycle I had when I was 3 years old.
>>>>
>>>> [1] <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df1a.jpg>.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>>>> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>>>>
>>> If I can find a way to post the picture I might put it on one of my 2
>>> websites, but basically I'm too computer lazy, today at least.
>>> Interesting that I manually deleted any posts from Brickston and
>>> Sorni and the debate has been raging all day long while I have been
>>> playing with a Ubuntu Linux install.
>>> You guys will argue anything to death.
>>> I'm not needed to fuel the fire. Brickston+Sorni+Sunset is like
>>> napalm. Bill Baka

>>
>> Baka is our own special needs contributor.

>
>Boy, for a "computer expert" Bill sure seems to have trouble doing the
>simplest things (plonking a poster, posting a pic, picking a nose...)...
>LOL


New sig: Billy "Ubuntu" Baka
 
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> On Jun 17, 6:43 am, R Brickston wrote:
>
> Mechanical speedometer/odometers were available.


What 4 year old would even think of a speedometer on a tricycle?
>
>> Next time anyone coasts down a hill, do about 20 MPH and try and
>> imagine a 4 year old on a tricycle alongside you. I'm guessing that
>> little Billy was doing maybe 8-10 MPH and he wet his pants.


Yeah, right. I wanted to do it again but the cop had other plans.
>
> My memory indicates that the 8-10 mph did feel like 50 mph, since
> kiddie trikes are/were not designed for anything but use on relatively
> flat ground.


Correct there, and they had hard rubber tires, at least on the one I had
and still have a picture of. It said "puncture proof" which pretty well
means no tube. That also meant little rolling resistance so if my car
with tire resistance coasted to 25 MPH, then I might have made 20 on the
trike. I managed to kill file Brickston but not the absurd posts this
clown wastes space with.
Bill Baka
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
>
>
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> > On Jun 17, 6:43 am, R Brickston wrote:
> >
> > Mechanical speedometer/odometers were available.

>
> What 4 year old would even think of a speedometer on a tricycle?
> >
> >> Next time anyone coasts down a hill, do about 20 MPH and try and
> >> imagine a 4 year old on a tricycle alongside you. I'm guessing that
> >> little Billy was doing maybe 8-10 MPH and he wet his pants.

>
> Yeah, right. I wanted to do it again but the cop had other plans.


Like getting Billy's diapers changed.

> >
> > My memory indicates that the 8-10 mph did feel like 50 mph, since
> > kiddie trikes are/were not designed for anything but use on relatively
> > flat ground.

>
> Correct there, and they had hard rubber tires, at least on the one I had
> and still have a picture of. It said "puncture proof" which pretty well
> means no tube. That also meant little rolling resistance so if my car
> with tire resistance coasted to 25 MPH, then I might have made 20 on the
> trike. I managed to kill file Brickston but not the absurd posts this
> clown wastes space with.
> Bill Baka


Right, Baka posts are not absurd.
 
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:03:29 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>There is no scoundrel worse than an <snip pointless rambling>


Well, there is the TROLL who makes up outrageous BS like some rabid
talk show host just for kicks, and then trolls it in bicycling groups
just to entertain himself. That would be worse.
 
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 18:19:13 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>EVERYONE in the world believed that Saddam had weapons of mass
>destruction. In fact, they may now be residing in Syria.


Not true.

--
JT
****************************
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Edward Dolan wrote:

> The hell you didn't. You must think we are all idiots here on these
> freaking cycling newsgroups.


I know of one.