Re: Value of sweating



>i remember reading in Runnersworld a few years ago...i can't remember the
>author...in response to this ice issue that she (or he) had never heard of
>anyone slipping on ice while running...they were either walking from their
>car or stopped while on the ice...or walking to get past ice...but never
>slipped while actually running on ice..

Glad you can't remember his name, the embarrassement would kill him. Only a
total cali-head would write something so stupid.
 
>"But I don't. I don't even pay attention to the windchill when I read weather
reports"
__

why not? do you wear a mask when it's cold every time? how long have you
been seriously running donovan? 2 years?

i don't think you've much experience w/extreme cold weather running. not many
experienced cold weather runners would say statements as you have.

do you know what it's like to run in freezing rain and have that freezing rain
hit your face, collect and freeze on your face? ever been seen that donnie?
I'm talking about horizontally moving sleet.

i lived (and ran) in new hampshire for 4 years. i lived and ran in harbin,
china for a year (coldest place i've ever lived...it's above N. Korea). . a
decent WC cutting in your face is worth paying attention to. Toss in some
sleet....w/the WC on your face....and I am sure DF can tell you all about
it...and I bet he respect the WC too.
 
"Lanceandrew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> ...and what facts would that be Doug? For humans....it was -4 this
> morning
> when I ran. That can be easily authenticated (W/C).

Is W/C Weather Channel or wind-chill?


> So I have a question for you and Donovan. Do you dress per the temp
> without
> consideration of the windchill? Of course not. You for example Doug
> dressed
> and prep'ed for -15 weather, not 5 (as in your example).

My science before I go out the door. Look at the therometer on my house
and look at the trees to see if the wind in blowing. If there is a
significant wind I put vaseline on my face. My clothes are chosen for
the temp. Been doing it this way for close to 20 years. I only cited
the wind-chill after I found a web page to do the calculation and pull
your leg.


> No, I don't expect you guys to let intellectual honesty get in the way
> at
> taking jabs....But if you are honest...you'll come right out and say
> you
> approach your runs w/the WC in mind, consistent w/what I have said.

I only use the wind for my face. From -15(we don't get much below this
very often) to +15(temps) I dress the same two shirts and Gortex
jacket. Since most of my tights are thin I toss a baggy pair of COTTON
sweat pants over them. When the temps are closer to +15 I'm a bit
over-dressed but it does not bother me to be a little warm. I much
prefer to be a little warm then a little cold. Besides, I can always zip
my jacket down if too warm.

> For example....right now were Donnie and I live, to humans...it's -1
> (W/C).
> If Donnie were consistent...he would assert that's "Bull" (his word).
> He
> would again be wrong.

I'm just happy that you getting your plump ass out the door to run and
not whinning. I think we have now created a "look at me world, I'm
running outside in cold(wind-chill adjusted) weather - you can't call me
a wussy any more," monster. Are you wearing out you gloves dragging your
knuckles on the ground. ;)

-Doug
 
"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doug Freese wrote:
>> "Tom Phillips" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>What about me? it was 54F this afternoon, but with
>>>a steady 30mph wind the wind chill was about 45F.
>>
>>
>> When my chin defrosts I'll laugh.
>>
>
> Now, see what happens when you remove your hood ;)

I can see the value of a hood but I have never taken the hood out of the
collar since I bought the jacket some 3-4 years ago. Maybe I should take
it out just to clean out the moths or see if has strings etc.

> Seriously, this is why I like to have a hood - even if I don't use it,
> which is 95% of the time.

I got a thick knit heavy duty hat at the HAT race some years back and
folder over I never get a cold head. I can see where you might need the
layer in you part of country. If the temp was -15 here and the trees
were bent over sideways I might look to using the hood. OTOH, I might
just stay in and call Lance and talk about how cold it is.

-DF
 
"Tom Phillips" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, I try to run with the wind at my back.
> Unfortunately my route goes east then back west.
> Chinook and warm temps are passe though. Arctic air
> tomorrow. #@*&% Canadians, anyway :^)
>
> We'll be at Doug's temp by Xmas morning. Where's
> my duct tape?

We have heat spell coming:


Forecast Daytime High / Overnight Low
(°F)Precip.
Today Dec 21 Partly Cloudy 30°/25° 20 %
Wed Dec 22 Partly Cloudy 45°/38° 0 %
Thu Dec 23 Rain 53°/31° 60 %
Fri Dec 24 Mostly Cloudy 39°/21° 20 %
Sat Dec 25 Partly Cloudy 32°/12° 20 %


-DF
 
Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from [email protected] of 21
Dec 2004:

> I think we have now created a "look at me world, I'm
> running outside in cold(wind-chill adjusted) weather - you can't call me
> a wussy any more," monster.

I must say I am enjoying reading this thread. I'm just glad I don't have to
deal with anything colder than 25F. However, sometimes I wish it was colder
than the 30s. When it's 35F and raining, that is tough to endure. It
doesn't happen often, but when it does there aren't a whole lot of clothing
options that can keep you warm and dry during a long run.

In the 30 - 50F range I'm finding that there are many variables that can
alter the ideal apparel selection. I think that once your weather is cold
enough to eliminate the possibility of rain, than you can narrow your
options. Regardless, this is the best time of year for running in my neck
of the woods. I'm saving my whining for July. ;-)

Phil M.
 
On 2004-12-21, Lanceandrew <[email protected]> wrote:

> why not? do you wear a mask when it's cold every time? how long have you
> been seriously running donovan? 2 years?

I don't wear a mask at all. I've been running in the cold since 01.

I put vaseline on my face if it's cold, or if I think it's going to be really
windy, but that's about it.

> i don't think you've much experience w/extreme cold weather running. not
> many experienced cold weather runners would say statements as you have.

Whatever. You're right, when it comes to making up excuses for not training,
I'm nowhere near as skilled as you are.

> i lived (and ran) in new hampshire for 4 years. i lived and ran in harbin,
> china for a year (coldest place i've ever lived...it's above N. Korea). .

Then it's too bad you've turned into such a wimp (-; I find it ironic that
my cold weather running credentials are being bashed by a guy who isn't
willing to maintain his training because it's "too cold" outside.

> a decent WC cutting in your face is worth paying attention to.

Sure, but that's not what you were saying before. You said that you need to
dress for -15 because the "wind adjusted" temperature is -15, which is
nonsense. You need to dress for whatever the temperature really is (e.g.
sufficient thermal insulation) *and* wear something sufficiently windproof to
keep the wind out.

But I don't need to check the weather forecast to see that it's really windy
outside. If it's really windy, I protect my face in addition to wearing the
assortment of windproof clothes that I wear on any cold day.

What I don't do is see that the "windchill" gives me a few degrees because
there's a 5mph breeze, and then pretend that I'm running (or not running) in
colder weather than what the mercury says.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 
Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...
>snip<
>Sure, but that's not what you were saying before. You said that you need to
>dress for -15 because the "wind adjusted" temperature is -15, which is
>nonsense. You need to dress for whatever the temperature really is (e.g.
>sufficient thermal insulation) *and* wear something sufficiently windproof
to
>keep the wind out.

Yea - wind chill is 90% negated when you wear a good shell. This can be
especially be true in a hat. A windstopper hat goes a long way.

The coldest environment I was in was downhill skiing one time in Sugarloaf
Maine. The air temp at the base of the mountain was -15f and the wind-chill
was reported to be -70f with high sustained and gusting winds. Probably it
wasn't *that* cold, but in fact it was so windy and blowing directly up the
slopes that even on steep ground it slowed you down a lot and a gust caused
me to crash once. The slopes were pretty empty and people were being advised
to take only one run and then go inside. Me and my friend took at most 2
runs before warming up inside. The wind chill was perhaps doubled when
skiing at speed (50mph+) directly into it.

This is just my coldest memory, graciously shared with the group :) -- but I
know it's nothing for the folks in Alaska or Canada, etc.

-T
 
Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from
qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com of 21 Dec 2004:

> This is just my coldest memory, graciously shared with the group :) --
> but I know it's nothing for the folks in Alaska or Canada, etc.

OK here's mine: Chicago Illinois. January 25, 1985.
The temperature was -27F. It is still the lowest recorded temperature ever
for Chicago.

And of all things to do that day, I had a volleyball tournament in Chicago.
Luckily it wasn't beach volleyball.

Phil M.
 
>I'm just happy that you getting your plump ass

See folks? Every third post has a reference to rectums in one form or another.
 
>why not? do you wear a mask when it's cold every time? how long have you
>been seriously running donovan? 2 years?

You've exposed him! He's a "dainty treadmill prancer", and does most of his
mileage indoors.
 
>I don't wear a mask at all.

With a face like that, it should be mandatory.

>I put vaseline on my face if it's cold,

Not to mention Dougs favorite area.
 
Lanceandrew wrote in message
<[email protected]>...
>>Wind chill is really only an issue if the wind is against bare skin
>-----
>
>...i think you're forgetting the role w/c can also play on the running
surface.
> i find the potentiality of coming across a patch of black ice increass
w/the
>increase in windchill (just my experience)... that's actually my greatest
>concern in this type of weather...hit a patch of black ice.
>
>i gotta figrue thousands of runners annual suffer all sorts of injuries
from
>hitting black ice and i bet some on this ng have a few stories of
encounters
>w/black ice.

I look for ice to slide on, especially when trail running on downhill
sections - glissading is loads of fun. Black ice rarely catches you unaware,
except maybe in the dark. Ice is good - it freezes all the mud up on trails.
Running in snow or on icy surfaces is great for your stability muscles also.
So what the heck does wind-chill have to do with black ice?

-T
 
"Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
wussy any more," monster.
>
> I must say I am enjoying reading this thread. I'm just glad I don't
> have to
> deal with anything colder than 25F. However, sometimes I wish it was
> colder
> than the 30s. When it's 35F and raining, that is tough to endure. It
> doesn't happen often, but when it does there aren't a whole lot of
> clothing
> options that can keep you warm and dry during a long run.

I agree 32-42 degrees and rain is the worst conditions even with Gotex
tops and bottoms.

> Regardless, this is the best time of year for running in my neck
> of the woods. I'm saving my whining for July. ;-)

Me too. I have a 100 mile race in July and I'll have to do some heat
acclimation prior. It never gets easy just sucks less.

-Doug
 
"Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Leafing through rec.running, I read a message from
> qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com of 21 Dec 2004:
>
>> This is just my coldest memory, graciously shared with the group :) --
>> but I know it's nothing for the folks in Alaska or Canada, etc.
>
> OK here's mine: Chicago Illinois. January 25, 1985.
> The temperature was -27F. It is still the lowest recorded temperature ever
> for Chicago.

I'll chip in. :)

I have lived in places as far away from each other as Melbourne
Australia and South Portland ME (I was there for Hurricane Gloria
in the mid-80's, if anyone remembers). I've even spent a month in
the mountains of Northern Italy, by the Swiss border. Skied the
same slopes that the famous intro to 'The Spy Who Loved Me'
was filmed on.

However, nothing for me was as cold as the winter of '82 - '83,
when I went to school for a couple years in an area near Parry
Sound, Ontario. It was there that I first learned the curious fact
that -40 degrees is the same in F or C. There was a week-long
stretch that winter in which the temperature sat there with little
change. I would leave my dorm in the morning to take the three
minute walk to the cafeteria, and if my hair was even the slightest
bit damp it would become hard before I got there. I remember
it hurt to breathe for the first few steps out the door.


cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON)
www.allfalldown.org
www.absolutelyaccurate.com
 
SwStudio wrote:

> However, nothing for me was as cold as the winter of '82 - '83,
> when I went to school for a couple years in an area near Parry
> Sound, Ontario. It was there that I first learned the curious fact
> that -40 degrees is the same in F or C. There was a week-long
> stretch that winter in which the temperature sat there with little
> change. I would leave my dorm in the morning to take the three
> minute walk to the cafeteria, and if my hair was even the slightest
> bit damp it would become hard before I got there. I remember
> it hurt to breathe for the first few steps out the door.

Might have been the same winter where we had 6 weeks where the
temperature never rose above -30C (-22F) here in Saskatoon. Night lows
were consistently in the high 30s/low 40s. We have a severe cold snap
or two every winter, but they're usually only a week, maybe 2. 6 was
brutal. Cars seem to be OK for a week and then stuff starts to break.
I have a buddy who lives in Yellowknife where it stays cold like that
for months at a stretch, he says he just parks his car for the winter
and cabs it everywhere - unless you leave them running all the time,
forget it.

When I was a kid in Scouts, we had winter camps. Coldest was -37C
(-35F): in a canvas tent, with sleeping bags, no heaters.

Neil
 
>When I was a kid in Scouts, we had winter camps. Coldest was -37C
>(-35F): in a canvas tent, with sleeping bags, no heaters.
>
>Neil

Punks! We did that "under the stars" here in new england.
 
"SwStudio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I'll chip in. :)

Could we have stopped you? Well? Could we?

> Skied the
> same slopes that the famous intro to 'The Spy Who Loved Me'
> was filmed on.

<roger goes weak at knees. oh, sw, if *only* i'd known...>

> However, nothing for me was as cold as the winter of '82 - '83,

It's like he's in a war movie, isn't it?

"The winter of '82 was sheer hell. We were taking heavy artillery fire
every day for 25 hours. I was reduced to sheltering under a tent I'd made
out of my underpants..."

> and if my hair was even the slightest
> bit damp it would become hard before I got there.

<splutter> Ok, Wobbot, I'll leave that one to you..

> I remember
> it hurt to breathe for the first few steps out the door.

It hurts *me* every time you breathe too. Even more so when you try to
communicate by typing.
 
"Neil Gendzwill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> When I was a kid in Scouts, we had winter camps. Coldest was -37C
> (-35F): in a canvas tent, with sleeping bags, no heaters.

Oh, ffs! Have I stumbled into a Monty Python sketch?
 
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