Re: Vehicle assault

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Pippen, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. Pippen

    Pippen Guest

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  2. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:42:19 -0600, "Pippen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> http://www.almanacnews.com/morgue/2005/2005_04_13.rage.shtml
    >>
    >> This will be an interesting case.

    >
    >I wonder if she will use the "I was in fear for my life" plea to explain why
    >she dragged the guy along side of the car in an attempt to flee from danger?
    >Still would not explain why she did not contact the police when she got to
    >work unless she knew she had screwed up.
    >
    >My $0.02,


    I would not be surprised if this gambit was tried. Her failure to
    report the incident *immediately*, however, is telling, and her claim
    that he jumped on the hood of her vehicle sounds just a trifle too
    easy to disprove. Most hoods are not strong enough anymore to
    withstand such loads without deforming, and his cleats would have left
    *big* scratches in the paint. Something tells me that *he* knows
    this, but *she* doesn't. and even if she figures it out, there's no
    way she'll fake the scratches without tripping herself up since they'd
    have to match the wear grooves in his cleats in order to be shown to
    have come from that cause.

    I'd say that if the rider's got the better attorney, her insurance
    company is looking at some damage control.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  3. In rec.bicycles.misc Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I would not be surprised if this gambit was tried. Her failure to
    > report the incident *immediately*, however, is telling, and her claim
    > that he jumped on the hood of her vehicle sounds just a trifle too
    > easy to disprove. Most hoods are not strong enough anymore to
    > withstand such loads without deforming, and his cleats would have left
    > *big* scratches in the paint. Something tells me that *he* knows
    > this, but *she* doesn't. and even if she figures it out, there's no
    > way she'll fake the scratches without tripping herself up since they'd
    > have to match the wear grooves in his cleats in order to be shown to
    > have come from that cause.
    >
    > I'd say that if the rider's got the better attorney, her insurance
    > company is looking at some damage control.


    The police are being criminally negligent if they can't see through
    this ruse. If the driver had admitted to physical contact with the
    cyclist, she should have remained at the scene. The fact that she
    didn't is hit and run at a minimum. Of course, the evidence of the
    scraped shoes and car hood should match. The cyclist has already
    "hired" the police to investigate this. If she can be shown to have
    lied, then filing a false report is another charge.

    I'm glad the cyclist is otherwise O.K. But, in my opinion it is
    better all around to try to defuse these situations before they get
    out of hand. Sometimes that means giving the asshole driver what
    they want. No matter how good it might make one feel, it is better
    not to let one's temper take over.

    Once you start taking matters into your own hands you run the risk of
    having the driver accuse you of "threatening" them. This is
    especially true with a male cyclist and a female driver. (Sorry
    ladies.)

    If there's physical contact or a clear case of assault I call the
    police and file a report. Otherwise I log a mildly threatening or
    dangerous incident with our local Bicycle and Pedestrian Coalition.

    http://penbiped.org/incidentreport.html

    --
    Bill Bushnell
    http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
     
  4. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Bill Bushnell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In rec.bicycles.misc Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> I would not be surprised if this gambit was tried. Her failure to
    >> report the incident *immediately*, however, is telling, and her claim
    >> that he jumped on the hood of her vehicle sounds just a trifle too
    >> easy to disprove. Most hoods are not strong enough anymore to
    >> withstand such loads without deforming, and his cleats would have left
    >> *big* scratches in the paint. Something tells me that *he* knows
    >> this, but *she* doesn't. and even if she figures it out, there's no
    >> way she'll fake the scratches without tripping herself up since they'd
    >> have to match the wear grooves in his cleats in order to be shown to
    >> have come from that cause.
    >>
    >> I'd say that if the rider's got the better attorney, her insurance
    >> company is looking at some damage control.

    >
    > The police are being criminally negligent if they can't see through
    > this ruse.


    The police do see through this ruse. However, the police kiss the butts of
    all of the residents in that area. Her story is so wildly improbable that it
    would be disproved in a split second. Vehicular assault is a felony. So you
    won't see the cops going out of their way to protect a bicyclist unless that
    particular cop happens to be a bicyclist himself.


    > If the driver had admitted to physical contact with the
    > cyclist, she should have remained at the scene. The fact that she
    > didn't is hit and run at a minimum. Of course, the evidence of the
    > scraped shoes and car hood should match. The cyclist has already
    > "hired" the police to investigate this. If she can be shown to have
    > lied, then filing a false report is another charge.
    >
    > I'm glad the cyclist is otherwise O.K. But, in my opinion it is
    > better all around to try to defuse these situations before they get
    > out of hand. Sometimes that means giving the asshole driver what
    > they want. No matter how good it might make one feel, it is better
    > not to let one's temper take over.
    >
    > Once you start taking matters into your own hands you run the risk of
    > having the driver accuse you of "threatening" them. This is
    > especially true with a male cyclist and a female driver. (Sorry
    > ladies.)
    >
    > If there's physical contact or a clear case of assault I call the
    > police and file a report. Otherwise I log a mildly threatening or
    > dangerous incident with our local Bicycle and Pedestrian Coalition.
    >
    > http://penbiped.org/incidentreport.html
    >
    > --
    > Bill Bushnell
    > http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
     
  5. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    > ... in my opinion it is better all around to try to defuse these situations
    > before they get out of hand. Sometimes that means giving the asshole
    > driver what they want. No matter how good it might make one feel, it
    > is better not to let one's temper take over.


    =v= You seem to be making presumptions not indicated by the news
    story.

    =v= Getting the car's license plate is usually a prudent measure. The
    fact that she slammed on the brakes right in front of him while he was
    doing so is of course a cause of alarm, but not cause to lecture *us*
    about temper.

    =v= We should all be grateful that he did his civic duty and reported
    her license number and behavior.
    <_Jym_>
     
  6. "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > The police do see through this ruse. However, the police kiss the butts of
    > all of the residents in that area. Her story is so wildly improbable that

    it
    > would be disproved in a split second. Vehicular assault is a felony. So

    you
    > won't see the cops going out of their way to protect a bicyclist unless

    that
    > particular cop happens to be a bicyclist himself.
    >


    I'll have to agree, I ride up there a lot. It's a small town and everyone
    seems to know everyone, they all look out after eachother. Usually the
    people are pretty friendly, but some just don't like cyclist. There's the
    noon ride that sort of left a bad taste in that area years ago, and it still
    hasn't settled with a few folks.
    When I ride up Old LaHonda Rd. there's been a few incidents where drivers
    come pretty darn close at a high rate of speed in which I try to pull as far
    over to the right. The police do seem to favor the residents. I actually
    once had a cop tailgate me down hwy 84 from the junction of 35 to Portola
    Rd., didn't pass me, just sat on my tail, and as has he passed me as I made
    the right onto Portola, he gave me a dirty look. I thought to myself, "boy,
    what was that about?"
    -tom
     
  7. Jym Dyer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> ... in my opinion it is better all around to try to defuse these situations
    >> before they get out of hand. Sometimes that means giving the asshole
    >> driver what they want. No matter how good it might make one feel, it
    >> is better not to let one's temper take over.


    > =v= You seem to be making presumptions not indicated by the news
    > story.


    Jym:

    It's helpful to examine dispassionately confrontations like this to
    see how they might better be handled or defused. The minute one's
    temper has taken over, rational decision making suffers.

    The cyclist in question did the right thing by reporting the
    incident, but I believe it was a mistake for him to attempt a dialog
    with the driver in the heat of the moment. Think about how the
    situation might have concluded if after being sideswiped he had
    obtained the license plate number and description of the vehicle and
    driver as best he could and then stopped and called the police.

    While "having a word" with the driver of the car shouldn't hurt his
    case, it doesn't help it either. But there is risk. Some drivers
    carrying a weapon have used it when confronted about their driving.
    Recall the incident in SF last year when a guy ran after a driver who
    had struck his parked car, and the driver shot him dead during the
    confrontation.

    The objective is to win the war not the battle, to see that the
    driver is brought to justice with minimal risk to the cyclist. If a
    cyclist gives any credibility to a driver's story that the driver
    felt threatened, then the cyclist's case is hurt. Many of these
    aggressive drivers are insecure.

    --
    Bill Bushnell
    http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
     
  8. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:03:50 GMT,
    <[email protected]>,
    Bill Bushnell <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Many of these
    >aggressive drivers are insecure.


    Help them become compost.
    --
    zk
     
  9. Bill Bushnell wrote:
    >
    >
    > While "having a word" with the driver of the car shouldn't hurt his
    > case, it doesn't help it either. But there is risk. Some drivers
    > carrying a weapon have used it when confronted about their driving.
    > Recall the incident in SF last year when a guy ran after a driver who
    > had struck his parked car, and the driver shot him dead during the
    > confrontation.
    >
    > The objective is to win the war not the battle, to see that the
    > driver is brought to justice with minimal risk to the cyclist. If a
    > cyclist gives any credibility to a driver's story that the driver
    > felt threatened, then the cyclist's case is hurt. Many of these
    > aggressive drivers are insecure.


    I understand there may be possible downsides to having a word with the
    driver; but I hate to see society moving toward a state where nobody
    ever says anything to the yahoos, for fear of possible retribution.
    When that happens, the yahoos will have won - to an even greater degree
    that they already have.

    I prefer that the public spaces not be handed over to those whose
    behavior is the worst. And if everyone cowers in fear of being shot
    for showing disapproval, that's what we'll get. Cops can't do it all,
    and the laws can't do it all. The public needs to give the yahoos some
    negative feedback on occasion.

    Maybe someday, politeness and consideration will come back into
    fashion. But that can only happen if those who are impolite and
    inconsiderate stop getting tacit approval for their behavior.

    - Frank Krygowski
     
  10. On 14 Apr 2005 18:12:05 -0700 in rec.bicycles.misc,
    frkr[email protected] wrote:

    > I understand there may be possible downsides to having a word with the
    > driver; but I hate to see society moving toward a state where nobody
    > ever says anything to the yahoos, for fear of possible retribution.
    > When that happens, the yahoos will have won - to an even greater degree
    > that they already have.
    >
    > I prefer that the public spaces not be handed over to those whose
    > behavior is the worst. And if everyone cowers in fear of being shot
    > for showing disapproval, that's what we'll get. Cops can't do it all,
    > and the laws can't do it all. The public needs to give the yahoos some
    > negative feedback on occasion.
    >
    > Maybe someday, politeness and consideration will come back into
    > fashion. But that can only happen if those who are impolite and
    > inconsiderate stop getting tacit approval for their behavior.


    FINALLY someone expresses some common sense, instead of the
    standard "fear of road rage" crap so many post here.

    We should NEVER let these miscreants think their behavior is OK,
    or that no one will ever do anything about it. Remember, if they
    assault you again, it only makes it worse for them when the cops
    get there.

    Drivers also need to think twice about this behavior because more
    and more cyclists are carrying and know how to use their weapon
    to defend themselves when attacked.
     
  11. <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > I understand there may be possible downsides to having a word with the
    > driver; but I hate to see society moving toward a state where nobody
    > ever says anything to the yahoos, for fear of possible retribution.
    > When that happens, the yahoos will have won - to an even greater degree
    > that they already have.


    I agree. This is true for more than just within the environment of cycling.
    I was at the mall and some teens were goofing off with the mini antique
    merry-go-round. It is designed for little kids, and has signs on it saying
    not to stand on it, push it, or be over 100 pounds on it. These boys were
    being/doing all of these things, while parents with tots were sitting on the
    benches around them, not saying or doing anything. In a way and tone that I
    hope was friendly, I came up to them and told them to get off and knock it
    off and let the little ones get a chance, since the thing was really
    designed for kids much younger.

    They weren't upset at all, and took off. Maybe young males are supposed to
    be intimidating. Yes, there's some gang activity in the neighborhood, but
    that doesn't mean that every group of young men (even a group of young men
    of color) are going to shoot you when you confront them. And I think it's
    the responsibility of every adult to guide young people into civilized
    behavior -- in fact, I think they secretly like it.


    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky

    Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
    See the books I've set free at:
    http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
     
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