Re: What are the most important things when buying a bike?

[Tumbleweed]

"Brian G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tumbleweed wrote:
>
>> With 5-10x the number of people going to university than when you went,
>> the old systems cant finance it. And even if they could, why should they
>> especially for post grad degrees. Of course, rich people can always pay
>> for their studies, but the same goes for everything else as well. Dont
>> see why it shoud be any different for a post grad degree in baroque music
>> or whatever.
>
> I don't see the relevance of baroque music. Both my children took/are
> taking post-graduate university qualifications necessary to the pursuit of
> their careers in scientific and medical fields (in which, at least in
> Scotland, we are said to be short of entrants).
>
> I certainly don't see the relevance to me of "rich people".
>
> I wasn't complaining about the current system. I initially gently queried
> your assertion that student indebtedness at present could equate to a few
> rounds of drinks. Were it so, some of us might be considerably "richer"
> people.
>
>

It does for student loans.Not for post grad loans as they would be done on a
more commercial basis no doubt. But that is their choice, presumably they
are doing it either because they will be substantially better off, or
because they just like to do it. EIther way I dont see why someone else
should pay isnteda of them.....unless its an employer.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

 

[Brian G]

Tumbleweed wrote:
> "Brian G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Tumbleweed wrote:
>>
>>
>>>With 5-10x the number of people going to university than when you went,
>>>the old systems cant finance it. And even if they could, why should they
>>>especially for post grad degrees. Of course, rich people can always pay
>>>for their studies, but the same goes for everything else as well. Dont
>>>see why it shoud be any different for a post grad degree in baroque music
>>>or whatever.
>>
>>I don't see the relevance of baroque music. Both my children took/are
>>taking post-graduate university qualifications necessary to the pursuit of
>>their careers in scientific and medical fields (in which, at least in
>>Scotland, we are said to be short of entrants).
>>
>>I certainly don't see the relevance to me of "rich people".
>>
>>I wasn't complaining about the current system. I initially gently queried
>>your assertion that student indebtedness at present could equate to a few
>>rounds of drinks. Were it so, some of us might be considerably "richer"
>>people.
>>
>>
>
>
> It does for student loans.Not for post grad loans as they would be done on a
> more commercial basis no doubt. But that is their choice, presumably they
> are doing it either because they will be substantially better off, or
> because they just like to do it. EIther way I dont see why someone else
> should pay isnteda of them.....unless its an employer.
>
I haven't suggested someone else should pay. I supported both of them
substantially through their undergraduate years and continue to support
them to a fair extent now. The reality however is that the costs
involved in university education (in particular the punitive rentals
charged by many private landlords in our cities) have meant that they
have had to enter into significant loan deals in addition.

As to why they do it, you are quite right that if all goes well they
will ultimately be better off financially. What you are not allowing,
however, is that in many areas of employment a first degree is now
almost worthless as an entry qualification and post-grad is unavoidable.
The system of student support does not generally recognise this, hence
the levels of indebtedness.

--
Brian G

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:05:08 +0000, Brian G <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>I haven't suggested someone else should pay. I supported both of them
>substantially through their undergraduate years and continue to support
>them to a fair extent now. The reality however is that the costs
>involved in university education (in particular the punitive rentals
>charged by many private landlords in our cities) have meant that they
>have had to enter into significant loan deals in addition.

This is an Excellent Thing as it gets them into the habits of debt
which will make them such valuable members of the consumer society
right up to their early death from alcoholism brought on by the stress
of all that debt, saving the nation a fortune in pensions...

Guy
--
"then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

 

[Brian G]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:05:08 +0000, Brian G <[email protected]>
> wrote in message <[email protected]>:
>
>
>>I haven't suggested someone else should pay. I supported both of them
>>substantially through their undergraduate years and continue to support
>>them to a fair extent now. The reality however is that the costs
>>involved in university education (in particular the punitive rentals
>>charged by many private landlords in our cities) have meant that they
>>have had to enter into significant loan deals in addition.
>
>
> This is an Excellent Thing as it gets them into the habits of debt
> which will make them such valuable members of the consumer society
> right up to their early death from alcoholism brought on by the stress
> of all that debt, saving the nation a fortune in pensions...

And best of luck to your family too...


--
Brian G

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:26:38 +0000, Brian G <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>> This is an Excellent Thing as it gets them into the habits of debt
>> which will make them such valuable members of the consumer society
>> right up to their early death from alcoholism brought on by the stress
>> of all that debt, saving the nation a fortune in pensions...

>And best of luck to your family too...

Hey, I was just expressing my cynicism about the institutionalised
debt caused by student loans. One of the reasons we are still paying
our old mortgage endowment premiums after switching to a One Account
is so that we will actually be able to afford to help the kids through
uni. There is no way I could have gone to uni without a full grant -
my dad was a college lecturer, permanently skint.

Guy
--
"then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

 

[Brian G]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:26:38 +0000, Brian G <[email protected]>
> wrote in message <[email protected]>:
>
>
>>>This is an Excellent Thing as it gets them into the habits of debt
>>>which will make them such valuable members of the consumer society
>>>right up to their early death from alcoholism brought on by the stress
>>>of all that debt, saving the nation a fortune in pensions...
>
>
>>And best of luck to your family too...
>
>
> Hey, I was just expressing my cynicism about the institutionalised
> debt caused by student loans. One of the reasons we are still paying
> our old mortgage endowment premiums after switching to a One Account
> is so that we will actually be able to afford to help the kids through
> uni. There is no way I could have gone to uni without a full grant -
> my dad was a college lecturer, permanently skint.

Fair enough. It's such a difficult thing for a parent to watch without
feeling a lot of guilt which is really not necessary. The most annoying
part is that the kids themselves shrug their shoulders at the debt
situation; old fogeys like me were brought up to regard debt as just
about as acceptable as a recurring dose of clap.

--
Brian G

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:47:23 +0000, Brian G <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>Fair enough. It's such a difficult thing for a parent to watch without
>feeling a lot of guilt which is really not necessary. The most annoying
>part is that the kids themselves shrug their shoulders at the debt
>situation; old fogeys like me were brought up to regard debt as just
>about as acceptable as a recurring dose of clap.

Ain't that the truth. When did debt suddenly become a good thing? I
suppose about the time that house price inflation became property
investment ;-)

Guy
--
"then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

 

[Tony Raven]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
>
> Ain't that the truth. When did debt suddenly become a good thing?

When there was a realistic prospect of us becoming third world country
and having some kindly rich nation wipe out all our debt for us ;-)

Tony

 

[Mark Thompson]

> Ain't that the truth. When did debt suddenly become a good thing?

Probably about the time that the government listened to the banks ideas for
replacing the grant.

 

[Tumbleweed]

"Brian G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
>>
> I haven't suggested someone else should pay. I supported both of them
> substantially through their undergraduate years and continue to support
> them to a fair extent now. The reality however is that the costs involved
> in university education (in particular the punitive rentals charged by
> many private landlords in our cities) have meant that they have had to
> enter into significant loan deals in addition.
>

Since rents are now returning the same level of income as if the money had
just been invested in a b soc account, say 4 or 5%, I dont think 'punitive'
is a good choice of phrase.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

 

[Jon Senior]

Tumbleweed wrote:
> Since rents are now returning the same level of income as if the money had
> just been invested in a b soc account, say 4 or 5%, I dont think 'punitive'
> is a good choice of phrase.

You sound like you have had no experience of student accommodation in
university cities in some time.

In Sheffield there was a completely separate student housing market
which did it's utmost to charge to excess for a bare minimum. The house
I lived in for my last year in the city was several cuts above all other
student accommodation because the girl who owned it was a student in the
city.

Jon

 

[Brian G]

Tumbleweed wrote:
> "Brian G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> <snip>
>
>>I haven't suggested someone else should pay. I supported both of them
>>substantially through their undergraduate years and continue to support
>>them to a fair extent now. The reality however is that the costs involved
>>in university education (in particular the punitive rentals charged by
>>many private landlords in our cities) have meant that they have had to
>>enter into significant loan deals in addition.
>>
>
>
> Since rents are now returning the same level of income as if the money had
> just been invested in a b soc account, say 4 or 5%, I dont think 'punitive'
> is a good choice of phrase.
In my relatively recent experiences of student accommodation,
particularly in Edinburgh, "punitive" is precisely correct. I obviously
don't know for certain that large returns are being made, although it is
generally felt to be the case. However, spending three or four years in
the type of accommodation on offer for very large sums is punishment indeed.


--
Brian G

 

[Brian G]

Tumbleweed wrote:
> "Brian G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> <snip>
>
>>I haven't suggested someone else should pay. I supported both of them
>>substantially through their undergraduate years and continue to support
>>them to a fair extent now. The reality however is that the costs involved
>>in university education (in particular the punitive rentals charged by
>>many private landlords in our cities) have meant that they have had to
>>enter into significant loan deals in addition.
>>
>
>
> Since rents are now returning the same level of income as if the money had
> just been invested in a b soc account, say 4 or 5%, I dont think 'punitive'
> is a good choice of phrase.
In my relatively recent experiences of student accommodation,
particularly in Edinburgh, "punitive" is precisely correct. I obviously
don't know for certain that large returns are being made, although it is
generally felt to be the case. However, spending three or four years in
the type of accommodation on offer for very large sums is punishment indeed.


--
Brian G

 

[Arthur Clune]

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:

: Ain't that the truth. When did debt suddenly become a good thing? I

About the time that student loans where introduced....

It's very easy to get the "well, I'm 9 grand in debt, another 50 quid on
the card won't make any difference" attitude.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness