Reagent grade ammonia to repel dogs?

[David Pintos]

Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter some mean
dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere that reagent grade
ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.... Thanks.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:15:37 GMT,
<[email protected]>, "David Pintos"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I've read somewhere that reagent grade
>ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.... Thanks.

Read it again. Reagent grade ammonia is used as last resort to
break-up dog fights in the show arenas. A towel is soaked in it and
thrown over the dog's head.

Do not squirt or spray dogs with ammonia as it can cause permanent
damage. Use vinegar or a commercial preparation like Halt.
--
zk

 

[David Pintos]

"Zoot Katz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:15:37 GMT,
> <[email protected]>, "David Pintos"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've read somewhere that reagent grade
>>ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.... Thanks.
>
> Read it again. Reagent grade ammonia is used as last resort to
> break-up dog fights in the show arenas. A towel is soaked in it and
> thrown over the dog's head.
>
> Do not squirt or spray dogs with ammonia as it can cause permanent
> damage. Use vinegar or a commercial preparation like Halt.

Halt didn't work well for me when dogs were trying to do some permanent
damage on me (I had no time to directly aim it). I checked out google and
found several posts about people using reagent grade ammonia. Of course, I
will not use it unless there's absolutely no other choices.

 

[SuperSlinky]

David Pintos said...

> Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter some mean
> dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere that reagent grade
> ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.... Thanks.

I'm a chemist and I use it often. Trust me, you don't want to mess with
it. It is awesomely volatile since ammonia is a gas. It will instantly
build up pressure in any container it is stored in, possibly spraying
the noxious **** into the air. I would assume most bottles that could
spray it would allow most of the ammonia to escape very quickly. Ammonia
is among the most noxious smells in existence. It must be used in a well
ventilated area, such as a fume hood. Just cracking the bottle is enough
to make your eyes water. Leaving it open, say in your kitchen or
bathroom, long enough to transfer it to another container would make you
run from the room gagging and choking. A small amount in an enclosed
space would probably result in a horrible screaming death. In its fresh
state, before most of the ammonia has escaped, it is amazingly caustic
and corrosive. Getting it in your eyes is a really bad idea. In short,
you are about a million times more likely to hurt yourself with it than
a dog. I know where I can get it, but I have no idea where you can get
it. I don't know that you can buy reagent grade chemicals just because
you want them. I can get them because our company has long-standing
accounts with our vendors. Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead in the
age of terrorism shopping for reagent grade chemicals.

 

[Dennis P. Harris]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:15:37 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, "David
Pintos" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter some mean
> dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere that reagent grade
> ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.

Reagent grade is too volatile and too caustic for that. Just get
a bottle of regular household cleaning ammonia and put some in a
small spray bottle.

 

[Bill Baka]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:21:18 GMT, SuperSlinky <[email protected]> wrote:

> David Pintos said...
>
>> Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter some
>> mean
>> dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere that reagent
>> grade
>> ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.... Thanks.
>
> I'm a chemist and I use it often. Trust me, you don't want to mess with
> it. It is awesomely volatile since ammonia is a gas. It will instantly
> build up pressure in any container it is stored in, possibly spraying
> the noxious **** into the air. I would assume most bottles that could
> spray it would allow most of the ammonia to escape very quickly. Ammonia
> is among the most noxious smells in existence. It must be used in a well
> ventilated area, such as a fume hood. Just cracking the bottle is enough
> to make your eyes water. Leaving it open, say in your kitchen or
> bathroom, long enough to transfer it to another container would make you
> run from the room gagging and choking. A small amount in an enclosed
> space would probably result in a horrible screaming death. In its fresh
> state, before most of the ammonia has escaped, it is amazingly caustic
> and corrosive. Getting it in your eyes is a really bad idea. In short,
> you are about a million times more likely to hurt yourself with it than
> a dog. I know where I can get it, but I have no idea where you can get
> it. I don't know that you can buy reagent grade chemicals just because
> you want them. I can get them because our company has long-standing
> accounts with our vendors. Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead in the
> age of terrorism shopping for reagent grade chemicals.

Personally I have been bitten by some overly agressive dogs with underly
attendant owners. I don't think I would want to use Ammonia either, but
I do have some Acetic Anhydride that I might try (CH3(COOH)), basically
undiluted Vinegar. Nasty in its own right but I don't think it would be
as damaging as straight Ammonia. I know that just opening the bottle and
catching a whiff will put my nose into pain.
Since we now have a chemist on here, what about it? Or could that be on
the list of things that you would not want to be caught buying? Hell, with
Bush as President buying swimming pool chemicals without a permit might be
considered stocking up on potential WMDs. Sulfuric acid, Hydrochloric acid,
Sodium Hypochlorite (high concentration bleach), all of which would stop a
dog, or person with some very undesireable side effects. I am a lot less
worried about the health of the dog than of my own safety. I wonder how bad
it will get before they give up looking for a terrorist behind every tree?
Maybe the book '1984' was right, but the timing was off? Big Brother might
be a reality show meant to prepare us for the future with a camera in
every
room. I know, I am way off topic, but at least when I ride there are no
cameras, yet (I hope not, at least).
Bill Baka


--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

 

[SuperSlinky]

Bill Baka said...

> Personally I have been bitten by some overly agressive dogs with underly
> attendant owners. I don't think I would want to use Ammonia either, but
> I do have some Acetic Anhydride that I might try (CH3(COOH)), basically
> undiluted Vinegar. Nasty in its own right but I don't think it would be
> as damaging as straight Ammonia. I know that just opening the bottle and
> catching a whiff will put my nose into pain.
> Since we now have a chemist on here, what about it? Or could that be on
> the list of things that you would not want to be caught buying? Hell, with
> Bush as President buying swimming pool chemicals without a permit might be
> considered stocking up on potential WMDs. Sulfuric acid, Hydrochloric acid,
> Sodium Hypochlorite (high concentration bleach), all of which would stop a
> dog, or person with some very undesireable side effects. I am a lot less
> worried about the health of the dog than of my own safety. I wonder how bad
> it will get before they give up looking for a terrorist behind every tree?
> Maybe the book '1984' was right, but the timing was off? Big Brother might
> be a reality show meant to prepare us for the future with a camera in
> every
> room. I know, I am way off topic, but at least when I ride there are no
> cameras, yet (I hope not, at least).
> Bill Baka

I've been bitten as well and nibbled a few more times running and
biking. It is the main reason I lost all respect for dogs. The vast
majority of them will go away if you act aggressively toward them. Yell
at them with a deep voice and genuine anger, which shouldn't be hard to
come by, and I have yet to encounter one that didn't back off. Of course
someday there will be that junkyard dog that actually wants to fight,
but fortunately, I haven't encountered one yet.

Back to the chemicals, acetic anhydride is another of those things that
falls under the category of Bad Idea. Remember if you are going to use
highly concentrated reagent grade chemicals that some of it may get on
your body and clothes and almost certainly on the bike. I wouldn't want
either of the chemicals mentioned all over my expensive parts. When it
contacts water, such as is always present on your skin or eyes, it will
immediately absorb the water to form acetic acid. This dehydrates the
tissues, probably killing them, plus adds a pure acid to start eating
away at what is left. If anyone wants to use chemicals to fight off
dogs, for the love of Pete, use the ones sold at household strength.
Dogs have sensitive noses and plain grocery store vinegar or ammonia,
even Windex, should be plenty strong enough to ruin a dog's day. Let's
not get into things like oven cleaner, Drano, or bleach, shall we?

There must be a million things to try that could fend off a dog without
causing yourself problems. Some sort of cleaning aid like Fantastik
might be ideal. Notice how much it sucks to get soap in your eyes? How
about after-shave or Listerine? What I hear suggested is like using a
wrecking ball to swat a fly.

 

[Pbwalther]

> If anyone wants to use chemicals to fight off
>dogs, for the love of Pete, use the ones sold at household strength.
>Dogs have sensitive noses and plain grocery store vinegar or ammonia,

>even Windex, should be plenty strong enough to ruin a dog's day.

Dogs have incredibly sensitive noses. The sensitivity is probably 3 orders of
magnitude higher then ours (1000 times). Something like vinegar or ammonia
would probably work fine.

I have had good luck with most dogs with just squirting plain water at them.
Most dogs will retreat from a blast of water.

I knew a couple of mailmen and they both told me that halt will stop any dog in
its tracks. If you are thinking that you have to deal with really aggressive
dogs, halt should do fine and it is compact. You can always stop so that you
can take good aim. Once you incapacitate the dog, you can make good your
escape. I would think that after a snoot full or two, you will not be bothered
by that pooch.

 

[the black rose]

Dennis P. Harris wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:15:37 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, "David
> Pintos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter some mean
>>dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere that reagent grade
>>ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.
>
>
> Reagent grade is too volatile and too caustic for that. Just get
> a bottle of regular household cleaning ammonia and put some in a
> small spray bottle.

If you're going to be that brutal, use vinegar; I can attest from
personal experience that vinegar in the eyes is too painful to ignore,
and it's less damaging than ammonia. Better yet, use lemon juice. That
way Fido goes home lemon-fresh and you're less likely to have a lawsuit
on your hands.

I'd be careful about the kind of owner who lets their dogs run loose.
They can be litigious. Back on the farm, I got between the neighbor's
dog and my sheep with a nice big shepherd's crook, and got threatened
with a lawsuit if I dared hit their precious dog with my crook. This,
in spite of the fact that the dog was on MY property, threatening MY
livestock, and under WV law it would have been legal to shoot the dog
under those circumstances. I figured I was being generous swinging a
crook at it. The owner didn't see it that way.

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

 

[Pat]

>
> I'd be careful about the kind of owner who lets their dogs run loose.
> They can be litigious. Back on the farm, I got between the neighbor's
> dog and my sheep with a nice big shepherd's crook, and got threatened
> with a lawsuit if I dared hit their precious dog with my crook. This,
> in spite of the fact that the dog was on MY property, threatening MY
> livestock, and under WV law it would have been legal to shoot the dog
> under those circumstances. I figured I was being generous swinging a
> crook at it. The owner didn't see it that way.
>
> -km

Anybody can make a threat; that doesn't mean he would win the case in court.
Sometimes--most times---it's just a hollow boast. If you know you're right,
go ahead.

Pat in TX
>
> --
> Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester
> the black rose
> proud to be owned by a yorkie
> http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

 

[Roger Zoul]

David Pintos wrote:
:: Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter
:: some mean dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere
:: that reagent grade ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs....
:: Thanks.

Try to find a different place to ride or find a way to rid yourself of the
dogs.

 

[Roger Zoul]

the black rose wrote:
:: Dennis P. Harris wrote:
::: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:15:37 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, "David
::: Pintos" <[email protected]> wrote:
:::
:::
:::: Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter
:::: some mean dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere
:::: that reagent grade ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.
:::
:::
::: Reagent grade is too volatile and too caustic for that. Just get
::: a bottle of regular household cleaning ammonia and put some in a
::: small spray bottle.
::
:: If you're going to be that brutal, use vinegar; I can attest from
:: personal experience that vinegar in the eyes is too painful to
:: ignore, and it's less damaging than ammonia. Better yet, use lemon
:: juice. That way Fido goes home lemon-fresh and you're less likely
:: to have a lawsuit on your hands.
::
:: I'd be careful about the kind of owner who lets their dogs run loose.
:: They can be litigious. Back on the farm, I got between the
:: neighbor's dog and my sheep with a nice big shepherd's crook, and
:: got threatened with a lawsuit if I dared hit their precious dog with
:: my crook. This, in spite of the fact that the dog was on MY
:: property, threatening MY livestock, and under WV law it would have
:: been legal to shoot the dog under those circumstances. I figured I
:: was being generous swinging a crook at it. The owner didn't see it
:: that way.


You should have made some threats of your own! You were in the right and if
it were me, that dog and its owner would have had some issues to deal with,
were I in your situation.

 

[Patrick Lamb]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:28:07 GMT, SuperSlinky <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Bill Baka said...
>
>> Personally I have been bitten by some overly agressive dogs with underly
>> attendant owners. I don't think I would want to use Ammonia either, but
>> I do have some Acetic Anhydride that I might try (CH3(COOH)), basically
>> undiluted Vinegar. Nasty in its own right but I don't think it would be
>> as damaging as straight Ammonia. I know that just opening the bottle and
>> catching a whiff will put my nose into pain.
>
>Back to the chemicals, acetic anhydride is another of those things that
>falls under the category of Bad Idea. Remember if you are going to use
>highly concentrated reagent grade chemicals that some of it may get on
>your body and clothes and almost certainly on the bike. I wouldn't want
>either of the chemicals mentioned all over my expensive parts. When it
>contacts water, such as is always present on your skin or eyes, it will
>immediately absorb the water to form acetic acid. This dehydrates the
>tissues, probably killing them, plus adds a pure acid to start eating
>away at what is left. If anyone wants to use chemicals to fight off
>dogs, for the love of Pete, use the ones sold at household strength.
>Dogs have sensitive noses and plain grocery store vinegar or ammonia,
>even Windex, should be plenty strong enough to ruin a dog's day. Let's
>not get into things like oven cleaner, Drano, or bleach, shall we?

If I remember my freshman chemistry correctly, straight acetic acid
(the kind that forms after acetic anhydride reacts with water) will
blister your skin. Fine treatment for plantar's warts, but not as
good as weaker chemicals you buy at drug stores for better control
over what you're blistering.

After you get over your tantrum, Bill, try the household variety
chemicals. They're safer for you. If they don't work well enough,
maybe a sawed-off shotgun with buckshot is the next step, but don't
get caught with it.

(Oh, and 6 M HCl will really whiten your teeth. Don't ask me how I
know.)

Pat

Email address works as is.

 

[Bill Baka]

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:37:19 -0500, Patrick Lamb
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:28:07 GMT, SuperSlinky <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Bill Baka said...
>>
>>> Personally I have been bitten by some overly agressive dogs with
>>> underly
>>> attendant owners. I don't think I would want to use Ammonia either, but
>>> I do have some Acetic Anhydride that I might try (CH3(COOH)), basically
>>> undiluted Vinegar. Nasty in its own right but I don't think it would be
>>> as damaging as straight Ammonia. I know that just opening the bottle
>>> and
>>> catching a whiff will put my nose into pain.
>>
>> Back to the chemicals, acetic anhydride is another of those things that
>> falls under the category of Bad Idea. Remember if you are going to use
>> highly concentrated reagent grade chemicals that some of it may get on
>> your body and clothes and almost certainly on the bike. I wouldn't want
>> either of the chemicals mentioned all over my expensive parts. When it
>> contacts water, such as is always present on your skin or eyes, it will
>> immediately absorb the water to form acetic acid. This dehydrates the
>> tissues, probably killing them, plus adds a pure acid to start eating
>> away at what is left. If anyone wants to use chemicals to fight off
>> dogs, for the love of Pete, use the ones sold at household strength.
>> Dogs have sensitive noses and plain grocery store vinegar or ammonia,
>> even Windex, should be plenty strong enough to ruin a dog's day. Let's
>> not get into things like oven cleaner, Drano, or bleach, shall we?
>
> If I remember my freshman chemistry correctly, straight acetic acid
> (the kind that forms after acetic anhydride reacts with water) will
> blister your skin. Fine treatment for plantar's warts, but not as
> good as weaker chemicals you buy at drug stores for better control
> over what you're blistering.
>
> After you get over your tantrum, Bill, try the household variety
> chemicals. They're safer for you. If they don't work well enough,
> maybe a sawed-off shotgun with buckshot is the next step, but don't
> get caught with it.
>
> (Oh, and 6 M HCl will really whiten your teeth. Don't ask me how I
> know.)
>
> Pat
>
> Email address works as is.
I took both high school and college chemistry and know these things to be
true. The industrial strength bleach whitens your teeth really fast but
don't get it on your gums, or anywhere else that might be sensitive. HCl
does not bother me externally since I dunk my hands in it to clean
corrosion
off of old parts (greasy skin is a blessing sometimes). Besides HCl is just
stomach acid, more concentrated. No tantrum, I just ride with some of my
grandchildren and tell them to go on while I take care of the dog. Usually
I wind up petting it, sometimes lifting my bike as a weapon, and once
kicking
the **** out of the dog, getting a canine tooth in the shin in the
process.
The dog did finally give up and go away though.
Bill Baka


--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

 

[H]

"David Pintos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> [...]
>
> Halt didn't work well for me when dogs were trying to do some permanent
> damage on me (I had no time to directly aim it). I checked out google and
> found several posts about people using reagent grade ammonia. Of course, I
> will not use it unless there's absolutely no other choices.


Well, what is it about ammonia that makes you think you'll have more
time to "directly" aim it?

There are numerous pepper spray products out there that have different
"coverage" patterns (including some with a 20 foot reach). Maybe you
need something with more spread and range?

But really, the smart thing to do is to detour around that place
especially if you _know_ beforehand that an aggressive dog is there.
Especially consider that an aggressive, unruly dog has masters who are
even more unpleasant.

 

[John Thompson]

On 2004-09-20, SuperSlinky <[email protected]> wrote:

> I know where I can get it, but I have no idea where you can get
> it. I don't know that you can buy reagent grade chemicals just because
> you want them. I can get them because our company has long-standing
> accounts with our vendors. Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead in the
> age of terrorism shopping for reagent grade chemicals.

IIRC, sale reagent grade ammonia is restricted, at least partly because it
is commonly used in the illegal production of methamphetamine.

--

-John ([email protected])

 

[Joshua Putnam]

I would be *very* wary of using any sort of chemical that isn't
specifically marketed as an animal repellant. Animal cruelty laws are
getting stronger all the time, don't give them any excuse to go after
you.

I'd suggest a better can of pepper spray -- I've also found Halt next to
useless, but other brands make a broader, more forceful cone of spray
that's easy to aim while riding. Just don't let the can fret through
while bungeed to your front rack....

--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html>

 

[Raoul Duke]

"Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Try to find a different place to ride or find a way to rid yourself of the
> dogs.

You should be able to ride wherever and whenever you choose. Don't let some
stupid dog - or its even stupider owner - decide where you can ride.
Pepper spray works well on dogs, without doing any permanent harm.

http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/

Dave

 

[Pbwalther]

Of course, another method of dealing with dogs who are chronic and predictable
problems is to call the animal control officer for your county. Some are
virtually ineffective however others take dogs who chase cyclists extremely
seriously. What do you have to lose? The worse thing is that the guy will do
nothing.

 

[H]

"Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Try to find a different place to ride or find a way to rid yourself of the
> > dogs.
>
> You should be able to ride wherever and whenever you choose. Don't let some
> stupid dog - or its even stupider owner - decide where you can ride.
> Pepper spray works well on dogs, without doing any permanent harm.
>
> http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/
>
> Dave



Pepper spray, or any other weapon, creates a false sense of security.
One is better off avoiding known dicey situations.

In any case, the only way you can really use the stuff is if you are
not moving, or the dog is behind you. It would be quite stupid to
attempt to fire the pepper spray at something in front of you while
you are on a moving bike.

There are all kinds of senarious that are possible, but in most
situations, one is better off by just accelerating past the threat or
avoiding it entirely.