Real Bike Cities.

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Red Cloud, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. Red Cloud

    Red Cloud Guest

    1. Hamburg

    2. Rome

    3. London

    4. paris

    5. Other European big and small cities

    These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders, and most
    Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place for
    biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a bike.
    As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are relying
    bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of population
    relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.

    I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet that it's not
    going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike populations verse
    a sole rider in big street in US.
     
    Tags:


  2. Seattle, on the other hand, is widely regarded as an excellent example of
    bicycle commuting. Paris is far from it. I don't have first-hand knowledge
    of the other places you listed, but your track record so far isn't terribly
    good.

    You might re-post your troll in rec.bicycles.racing where people make a
    sport of such things.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > 1. Hamburg
    >
    > 2. Rome
    >
    > 3. London
    >
    > 4. paris
    >
    > 5. Other European big and small cities
    >
    > These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders, and

    most
    > Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place for
    > biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a bike.
    > As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are

    relying
    > bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of

    population
    > relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.
    >
    > I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet that it's

    not
    > going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike populations

    verse
    > a sole rider in big street in US.
     
  3. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    NYC in the 60s was fine. That was before bike messengers.

    The courtesy you get depends on how many bikes the drivers have seen
    before you that day. If it's none, you get all sorts of consideration.

    This is why you ought to be stamping out bike commuting, not encouraging
    it. It leaves you as the only rider. People give you a friendly wave,
    who pass you every day.
    --
    Ron Hardin
    [email protected]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  4. Greetings from London,

    It's along time since I've been to Hamburg. I wasn't impressed with
    their idea of compelling cyclists to ride on narrow urban sidewalks,
    even though they did paint a white line down the middle of the
    sidewalk, and call that a "bike lane"

    London is pretty good, although mine is a minority opinion. We are
    still trying to get a Tour de France stage here. The tour of Britain
    is back, meanwhile. The final stage will be a criterium in
    Westminster, Sept 5th. Send off for our free bike maps - London is
    big enough that it takes 19 of them to cover all london. Central
    London is map 10. For more info' look at the Transport for London
    web site www.tfl.org.uk

    There are lots of ways to get round London, so cycling has
    competition

    We got five ring roads from the planner kings
    (or at least a partial try)
    and Jubilee and Victoria in their halls of stone
    no highwalks for pedestrians, still doomed to die
    no Orbrail yet for railways, though once they ruled the throne.
    But there's one mode that rules them all
    although they won't admit it
    for fast fun trips around our town
    get a bike - you won't regret it.

    Jeremy Parker
    London UK



    "Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > 1. Hamburg
    >
    > 2. Rome
    >
    > 3. London
    >
    > 4. paris
    >
    > 5. Other European big and small cities
    >
    > These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders,

    and most
    > Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place

    for
    > biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a

    bike.
    > As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are

    relying
    > bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of

    population
    > relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.
    >
    > I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet

    that it's not
    > going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike

    populations verse
    > a sole rider in big street in US.
     
  5. Red Cloud wrote:
    > 1. Hamburg
    >
    > 2. Rome
    >
    > 3. London
    >
    > 4. paris
    >
    > 5. Other European big and small cities
    >
    > These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders,



    I doubt it.
    Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as the best example of how to
    plan and build for bicycle commuters.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  6. cheg

    cheg Guest

    "Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > 1. Hamburg
    >
    > 2. Rome
    >
    > 3. London
    >
    > 4. paris
    >
    > 5. Other European big and small cities
    >
    > These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders, and most
    > Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place for
    > biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a bike.
    > As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are relying
    > bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of population
    > relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.
    >
    > I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet that it's not
    > going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike populations verse
    > a sole rider in big street in US.



    I'd take Seattle over Rome any day for bike commuting. Seattle does not have the
    plague of moped riders talking on cel phones filling every gap in the car
    traffic.
     
  7. On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 00:49:01 -0700, Red Cloud wrote:

    > 1. Hamburg
    >
    > 2. Rome
    >
    > 3. London
    >
    > 4. paris
    >
    > 5. Other European big and small cities


    Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just assuming that,
    since they are in Europe, they must be better than anything the US has to
    offer? Conversely, if you try riding in New York, or (so I am told)
    Seattle, or even Philadelphia, you might find that they can be exceptional
    places to ride.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong.
    _`\(,_ | He's not the kind you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian Anderson
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  8. "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Seattle, on the other hand, is widely regarded as an excellent example of
    > bicycle commuting. Paris is far from it. I don't have first-hand

    knowledge
    > of the other places you listed, but your track record so far isn't

    terribly
    > good.
    >
    > You might re-post your troll in rec.bicycles.racing where people make a
    > sport of such things.


    Yeah, I think the "Seattle" thing was thrown in there for trolling purposes.

    Now, I think I'm going to haul myself up from the computer and go ride in
    one of those "worst places", where, according to the mayor, bicycle
    commuting has been increasing at 7-8% a year.


    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky
    Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
    Home of the meditative cyclist:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
    See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
     
  9. S o r n i

    S o r n i Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:
    > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 00:49:01 -0700, Red Cloud wrote:
    >
    >> 1. Hamburg
    >>
    >> 2. Rome
    >>
    >> 3. London
    >>
    >> 4. paris
    >>
    >> 5. Other European big and small cities

    >
    > Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just assuming that,
    > since they are in Europe, they must be better than anything the US
    > has to offer?


    I hate it when I click on an unread post and then actually consider its
    content, BEFORE noting the author.

    Bill "Red Cloud Troll" S.
     
  10. maxo

    maxo Guest

    On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 07:57:46 +0000, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

    > You might re-post your troll in rec.bicycles.racing where people make a
    > sport of such things.


    yep--trolling it is,but perhaps grounds for interesting dialog regardless.

    The numero uno reason this is a troll, is the fact that Amsterdam isn't
    mentioned as one of the European cities. :/

    However there are too many to mention, my hometown of Gothenburg, Sweden
    is especially nice--they have seperate bike lane and lights in the city!
    Makes you feel like just another vehicle.

    Seattle--I've been there many times since I used to live in the region, is
    very bike friendly as far as attitudes go--outdoorsy lifestyles are a very
    integrated part of the city's identity. I must admit that I sold my bike
    when I was in the region (mainly for sustenance, I was in college :D)
    because I hadn't come to terms with the challenge of almost daily rain and
    some pretty brutal hills. Eventually I bought a vintage three speed with
    fenders and found that to be the perfect NW bike--you could push it up a
    hill and look perfectly natural--it's a three speed--and the fenders were
    a godsend. :D

    My favourite bike city in the states is Chicago! Lots of everyday normal
    folks ride--not just the crunchy granola types. There are plenty of bike
    lanes, and motorists--as aggressive as they usually are in the big city,
    seem to tolerate cyclists. The city also has installed bike racks, real
    solid brilliant ones, almost everywhere! I find that more important than
    the bike lines almost. Chicago's also flat--so you can ride whatever piece
    of junk you have laying around and not worry too much about theft.

    my 2c

    :D
     
  11. curt

    curt Guest

    I must say, the last time I was in London, I noticed that the air quality
    was terrible. I had to blow black stuff out of my nose and that was just
    from walking around, let alone if I was riding a bicycle. It was a very
    nice city, but I hope they did something about the air quality.

    Curt

    "Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Greetings from London,
    >
    > It's along time since I've been to Hamburg. I wasn't impressed with
    > their idea of compelling cyclists to ride on narrow urban sidewalks,
    > even though they did paint a white line down the middle of the
    > sidewalk, and call that a "bike lane"
    >
    > London is pretty good, although mine is a minority opinion. We are
    > still trying to get a Tour de France stage here. The tour of Britain
    > is back, meanwhile. The final stage will be a criterium in
    > Westminster, Sept 5th. Send off for our free bike maps - London is
    > big enough that it takes 19 of them to cover all london. Central
    > London is map 10. For more info' look at the Transport for London
    > web site www.tfl.org.uk
    >
    > There are lots of ways to get round London, so cycling has
    > competition
    >
    > We got five ring roads from the planner kings
    > (or at least a partial try)
    > and Jubilee and Victoria in their halls of stone
    > no highwalks for pedestrians, still doomed to die
    > no Orbrail yet for railways, though once they ruled the throne.
    > But there's one mode that rules them all
    > although they won't admit it
    > for fast fun trips around our town
    > get a bike - you won't regret it.
    >
    > Jeremy Parker
    > London UK
    >
    >
    >
    > "Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > 1. Hamburg
    > >
    > > 2. Rome
    > >
    > > 3. London
    > >
    > > 4. paris
    > >
    > > 5. Other European big and small cities
    > >
    > > These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders,

    > and most
    > > Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place

    > for
    > > biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a

    > bike.
    > > As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are

    > relying
    > > bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of

    > population
    > > relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.
    > >
    > > I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet

    > that it's not
    > > going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike

    > populations verse
    > > a sole rider in big street in US.

    >
    >
     
  12. On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:57:58 GMT, maxo <[email protected]> wrote:

    >However there are too many to mention, my hometown of Gothenburg, Sweden
    >is especially nice--they have seperate bike lane and lights in the city!
    >Makes you feel like just another vehicle.


    I ride on the road in Washington, DC and feel just like a vehicle,
    too. I share the traffic lights with the cars and the trucks - no big
    deal...

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...
     
  13. maxo wrote:

    > ... my hometown of Gothenburg, Sweden
    > is especially nice--they have seperate bike lane and lights in the city!
    > Makes you feel like just another vehicle.


    Hmmm. Being segregated in a bike lane wouldn't make me feel "just like
    another vehicle." I prefer to use the same facilities the other
    vehicles use.


    --
    --------------------+
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
    replace with cc.ysu dot edu]
     
  14. maxo

    maxo Guest

    On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 13:02:57 -0400, Curtis L. Russell wrote:

    > I ride on the road in Washington, DC and feel just like a vehicle,
    > too. I share the traffic lights with the cars and the trucks - no big
    > deal...


    the issue of lanes vs. no lanes can also be discussed to death :D it is
    interesting though--I don't think either is clearly superior.

    It doesn't really matter to me because I've ridden so many miles in so
    many cities that nothing really surprises or disturbs me...;)

    In Gothenburg (and Amsterdam for that matter), the lanes work because
    there are quite a few cyclists and the lanes are integrated very well with
    the motorised traffic, including their own stoplights.

    American bike lanes are usually just a stripe painted on the side of the
    road, that ends before intersections quite often. I find this quite silly
    seeing as the really dangerous part of biking with autos is the jockying
    at stoplights. A lot of cyclists stay far to the right even at lights and
    become for many motorists--invisible targets. I'm of the school that it's
    safest to occupy the lane when you can keep up with traffic--and that
    includes intersections. Behaving like a car is the best way to get treated
    like one--that's old news to most folks posting here of course ;)

    Unfortunately, a lot of recreational cyclists are
    intimidated by doing this, and often don't know it's within their rights
    to ride like this, motorists especially get annoyed in cities like where
    I'm living ATM, Nashville--where most cyclists ride illegally on the
    sidewalks or on the left side of the road. (!) We do have some new bike
    lanes which I find unnecessary for my personal habits--but I think are
    good "training wheels" for a lot of the newcomers to bicycling around
    here. The lanes have directional arrows (I know I know :)) and encourage
    riding on the street and with the flow of traffic--habits that folks can
    apply to non-striped roads.

    When I was in Chicago, I'd often avoid the bike paths if I wanted to get
    somewhere fast and use the regular streets, the paths being clogged by
    geniuses on bikes and blades who think it's a good idea to listen to
    headphones at full volume and cluelessly block traffic. LOL
     
  15. Mike Kruger

    Mike Kruger Guest

    "maxo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]
    >
    > My favourite bike city in the states is Chicago! Lots of everyday normal
    > folks ride--not just the crunchy granola types. There are plenty of bike
    > lanes, and motorists--as aggressive as they usually are in the big city,
    > seem to tolerate cyclists. The city also has installed bike racks, real
    > solid brilliant ones, almost everywhere! I find that more important than
    > the bike lines almost. Chicago's also flat--so you can ride whatever piece
    > of junk you have laying around and not worry too much about theft.
    >

    Thanks for the kind words on my home city.

    I was surprised to see Paris on the original troll's list. I haven't biked
    when I've visited there, but there didn't seem to be a particularly high
    amount of bicycling and the traffic didn't seem particularly
    bicycle-friendly. Outside Paris (and I don't mean the suburbs) there seemed
    to be both more biking and a more bike-friendly atmosphere. This impression
    is based on relatively brief visits, so it may not be accurate.

    --
    ---
    Mike Kruger
    Blog: http://journals.aol.com/mikekr/ZbicyclistsZlog/
     
  16. Red Cloud

    Red Cloud Guest

    "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Red Cloud wrote:
    > > 1. Hamburg
    > >
    > > 2. Rome
    > >
    > > 3. London
    > >
    > > 4. paris
    > >
    > > 5. Other European big and small cities
    > >
    > > These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders,

    >
    >
    > I doubt it.
    > Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as the best example of how to
    > plan and build for bicycle commuters.



    I forgot Holland!!! I even believe that HOlland could be the best biker
    nation on earth.
     
  17. Red Cloud

    Red Cloud Guest

    "cheg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]_s01>...
    > "Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > 1. Hamburg
    > >
    > > 2. Rome
    > >
    > > 3. London
    > >
    > > 4. paris
    > >
    > > 5. Other European big and small cities
    > >
    > > These europeans cities could be the best place for biker riders, and most
    > > Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place for
    > > biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not ride a bike.
    > > As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American population are relying
    > > bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that number of population
    > > relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are quite high.
    > >
    > > I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I bet that it's not
    > > going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike populations verse
    > > a sole rider in big street in US.

    >
    >
    > I'd take Seattle over Rome any day for bike commuting. Seattle does not have the
    > plague of moped riders talking on cel phones filling every gap in the car
    > traffic.



    Do you see a lots bikers in Seattle?
     
  18. DRS

    DRS Guest

    "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    [...]

    > I doubt it.
    > Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as the best example of how
    > to plan and build for bicycle commuters.


    How much of it is actually planned? I lived in Almere and Amsterdam. I
    thought the bike paths (and roads generally) in Almere were designed by
    people on acid. And Amsterdam wasn't planned, it's old and organic (not
    that that's a bad thing).

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
     
  19. Red Cloud

    Red Cloud Guest

    "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 00:49:01 -0700, Red Cloud wrote:
    >
    > > 1. Hamburg
    > >
    > > 2. Rome
    > >
    > > 3. London
    > >
    > > 4. paris
    > >
    > > 5. Other European big and small cities

    >
    > Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just assuming that,
    > since they are in Europe, they must be better than anything the US has to
    > offer? Conversely, if you try riding in New York, or (so I am told)
    > Seattle, or even Philadelphia, you might find that they can be exceptional
    > places to ride.


    Easy to assume European cities are more friendly to bikers than any
    American cities. Nobody can't deny fact. Seattle or NY or Phil can't be call
    as the biker city cuz their residents do not depend on bike much unlike where
    you see a signficant portion of Europeans are depending on bike.
     
  20. Red Cloud

    Red Cloud Guest

    "S o r n i" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > David L. Johnson wrote:
    > > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 00:49:01 -0700, Red Cloud wrote:
    > >
    > >> 1. Hamburg
    > >>
    > >> 2. Rome
    > >>
    > >> 3. London
    > >>
    > >> 4. paris
    > >>
    > >> 5. Other European big and small cities

    > >
    > > Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just assuming that,
    > > since they are in Europe, they must be better than anything the US
    > > has to offer?

    >
    > I hate it when I click on an unread post and then actually consider its
    > content, BEFORE noting the author.
    >
    > Bill "Red Cloud Troll" S.



    Just hate yourself moron.
     
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