Real Bike Cities.

[Red Cloud]

1. Hamburg

2. Rome

3. London

4. paris

5. Other European big and small cities

These europeans cities could be the best place for biker
riders, and most Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix,
Seattle are the worst place for biker. The reason is that
in America most folks do not ride a bike. As matter of
fact, probably less than 1% of American population are
relying bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet
that number of population relying on bike as the primary
transportatoin are quite high.

I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will. I
bet that it's not going to be same feeling to ride a bike
among a hugh bike populations verse a sole rider in big
street in US.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsk]

Seattle, on the other hand, is widely regarded as an
excellent example of bicycle commuting. Paris is far
from it. I don't have first-hand knowledge of the other
places you listed, but your track record so far isn't
terribly good.

You might re-post your troll in rec.bicycles.racing where
people make a sport of such things.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 1. Hamburg
>
> 2. Rome
>
> 3. London
>
> 4. paris
>
> 5. Other European big and small cities
>
> These europeans cities could be the best place for biker
> riders, and
most
> Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the
> worst place for biker. The reason is that in America most
> folks do not ride a bike. As matter of fact, probably
> less than 1% of American population are
relying
> bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that
> number of
population
> relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are
> quite high.
>
> I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will.
> I bet that it's
not
> going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike
> populations
verse
> a sole rider in big street in US.

 

[Ron Hardin]

NYC in the 60s was fine. That was before bike messengers.

The courtesy you get depends on how many bikes the drivers
have seen before you that day. If it's none, you get all
sorts of consideration.

This is why you ought to be stamping out bike commuting, not
encouraging
it. It leaves you as the only rider. People give you a
friendly wave, who pass you every day.
--
Ron Hardin [email protected]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Red Cloud wrote:
> 1. Hamburg
>
> 2. Rome
>
> 3. London
>
> 4. paris
>
> 5. Other European big and small cities
>
> These europeans cities could be the best place for biker
> riders,

I doubt it. Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as
the best example of how to plan and build for bicycle
commuters.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Jeremy Parker]

Greetings from London,

It's along time since I've been to Hamburg. I wasn't
impressed with their idea of compelling cyclists to ride
on narrow urban sidewalks, even though they did paint a
white line down the middle of the sidewalk, and call that
a "bike lane"

London is pretty good, although mine is a minority opinion.
We are still trying to get a Tour de France stage here. The
tour of Britain is back, meanwhile. The final stage will be
a criterium in Westminster, Sept 5th. Send off for our free
bike maps - London is big enough that it takes 19 of them to
cover all london. Central London is map 10. For more info'
look at the Transport for London web site www.tfl.org.uk

There are lots of ways to get round London, so cycling has
competition

We got five ring roads from the planner kings (or at least a
partial try) and Jubilee and Victoria in their halls of
stone no highwalks for pedestrians, still doomed to die no
Orbrail yet for railways, though once they ruled the throne.
But there's one mode that rules them all although they won't
admit it for fast fun trips around our town get a bike - you
won't regret it.

Jeremy Parker London UK

"Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 1. Hamburg
>
> 2. Rome
>
> 3. London
>
> 4. paris
>
> 5. Other European big and small cities
>
> These europeans cities could be the best place for biker
> riders,
and most
> Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the
> worst place
for
> biker. The reason is that in America most folks do
> not ride a
bike.
> As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American
> population are
relying
> bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that
> number of
population
> relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are
> quite high.
>
> I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I
> will. I bet
that it's not
> going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a hugh bike
populations verse
> a sole rider in big street in US.

 

[Cheg]

"Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 1. Hamburg
>
> 2. Rome
>
> 3. London
>
> 4. paris
>
> 5. Other European big and small cities
>
> These europeans cities could be the best place for biker
> riders, and most Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix,
> Seattle are the worst place for biker. The reason is
> that in America most folks do not ride a bike. As matter
> of fact, probably less than 1% of American population
> are relying bike as a primary transportation. In europe,
> I bet that number of population relying on bike as the
> primary transportatoin are quite high.
>
> I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I will.
> I bet that it's not going to be same feeling to ride a
> bike among a hugh bike populations verse a sole rider in
> big street in US.

I'd take Seattle over Rome any day for bike commuting.
Seattle does not have the plague of moped riders talking on
cel phones filling every gap in the car traffic.

 

[Claire Petersky]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Seattle, on the other hand, is widely regarded as an
> excellent example of bicycle commuting. Paris is far from
> it. I don't have first-hand
knowledge
> of the other places you listed, but your track record so
> far isn't
terribly
> good.
>
> You might re-post your troll in rec.bicycles.racing where
> people make a sport of such things.

Yeah, I think the "Seattle" thing was thrown in there for
trolling purposes.

Now, I think I'm going to haul myself up from the computer
and go ride in one of those "worst places", where,
according to the mayor, bicycle commuting has been
increasing at 7-8% a year.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm See the
books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

 

[S O R N I]

David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 00:49:01 -0700, Red Cloud wrote:
>
>> 1. Hamburg
>>
>> 2. Rome
>>
>> 3. London
>>
>> 4. paris
>>
>> 5. Other European big and small cities
>
> Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just
> assuming that, since they are in Europe, they must be
> better than anything the US has to offer?

I hate it when I click on an unread post and then actually
consider its content, BEFORE noting the author.

Bill "Red Cloud Troll" S.

 

[Curt]

I must say, the last time I was in London, I noticed that
the air quality was terrible. I had to blow black stuff out
of my nose and that was just from walking around, let alone
if I was riding a bicycle. It was a very nice city, but I
hope they did something about the air quality.

Curt

"Jeremy Parker" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> Greetings from London,
>
> It's along time since I've been to Hamburg. I wasn't
> impressed with their idea of compelling cyclists to ride
> on narrow urban sidewalks, even though they did paint a
> white line down the middle of the sidewalk, and call that
> a "bike lane"
>
> London is pretty good, although mine is a minority
> opinion. We are still trying to get a Tour de France stage
> here. The tour of Britain is back, meanwhile. The final
> stage will be a criterium in Westminster, Sept 5th. Send
> off for our free bike maps - London is big enough that it
> takes 19 of them to cover all london. Central London is
> map 10. For more info' look at the Transport for London
> web site www.tfl.org.uk
>
> There are lots of ways to get round London, so cycling has
> competition
>
> We got five ring roads from the planner kings (or at least
> a partial try) and Jubilee and Victoria in their halls of
> stone no highwalks for pedestrians, still doomed to die no
> Orbrail yet for railways, though once they ruled the
> throne. But there's one mode that rules them all although
> they won't admit it for fast fun trips around our town get
> a bike - you won't regret it.
>
> Jeremy Parker London UK
>
>
>
> "Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > 1. Hamburg
> >
> > 2. Rome
> >
> > 3. London
> >
> > 4. paris
> >
> > 5. Other European big and small cities
> >
> > These europeans cities could be the best place for
> > biker riders,
> and most
> > Americna city like LA, NY, Pheoneix, Seattle are the
> > worst place
> for
> > biker. The reason is that in America most folks do not
> > ride a
> bike.
> > As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of American
> > population are
> relying
> > bike as a primary transportation. In europe, I bet that
> > number of
> population
> > relying on bike as the primary transportatoin are
> > quite high.
> >
> > I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I
> > will. I bet
> that it's not
> > going to be same feeling to ride a bike among a
> > hugh bike
> populations verse
> > a sole rider in big street in US.

 

[Curtis L . Russ]

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 15:57:58 GMT, maxo <[email protected]> wrote:

>However there are too many to mention, my hometown of
>Gothenburg, Sweden is especially nice--they have seperate
>bike lane and lights in the city! Makes you feel like just
>another vehicle.

I ride on the road in Washington, DC and feel just like a
vehicle, too. I share the traffic lights with the cars and
the trucks - no big deal...

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

 

[Frank Krygowski]

maxo wrote:

> ... my hometown of Gothenburg, Sweden is especially nice--
> they have seperate bike lane and lights in the city! Makes
> you feel like just another vehicle.

Hmmm. Being segregated in a bike lane wouldn't make me feel
"just like another vehicle." I prefer to use the same
facilities the other vehicles use.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

 

[Maxo]

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 13:02:57 -0400, Curtis L. Russell wrote:

> I ride on the road in Washington, DC and feel just like a
> vehicle, too. I share the traffic lights with the cars and
> the trucks - no big deal...

the issue of lanes vs. no lanes can also be discussed to
death it is interesting though--I don't think either is
clearly superior.

It doesn't really matter to me because I've ridden so many
miles in so many cities that nothing really surprises or
disturbs me...

In Gothenburg (and Amsterdam for that matter), the lanes
work because there are quite a few cyclists and the lanes
are integrated very well with the motorised traffic,
including their own stoplights.

American bike lanes are usually just a stripe painted on the
side of the road, that ends before intersections quite
often. I find this quite silly seeing as the really
dangerous part of biking with autos is the jockying at
stoplights. A lot of cyclists stay far to the right even at
lights and become for many motorists--invisible targets. I'm
of the school that it's safest to occupy the lane when you
can keep up with traffic--and that includes intersections.
Behaving like a car is the best way to get treated like one--
that's old news to most folks posting here of course

Unfortunately, a lot of recreational cyclists are
intimidated by doing this, and often don't know it's within
their rights to ride like this, motorists especially get
annoyed in cities like where I'm living ATM, Nashville--
where most cyclists ride illegally on the sidewalks or on
the left side of the road. (!) We do have some new bike
lanes which I find unnecessary for my personal habits--but I
think are good "training wheels" for a lot of the newcomers
to bicycling around here. The lanes have directional arrows
(I know I know ) and encourage riding on the street and
with the flow of traffic--habits that folks can apply to non-
striped roads.

When I was in Chicago, I'd often avoid the bike paths if I
wanted to get somewhere fast and use the regular streets,
the paths being clogged by geniuses on bikes and blades who
think it's a good idea to listen to headphones at full
volume and cluelessly block traffic. LOL

 

[Mike Kruger]

"maxo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
> My favourite bike city in the states is Chicago! Lots of
> everyday normal folks ride--not just the crunchy granola
> types. There are plenty of bike lanes, and motorists--as
> aggressive as they usually are in the big city, seem to
> tolerate cyclists. The city also has installed bike racks,
> real solid brilliant ones, almost everywhere! I find that
> more important than the bike lines almost. Chicago's also
> flat--so you can ride whatever piece of junk you have
> laying around and not worry too much about theft.
>
Thanks for the kind words on my home city.

I was surprised to see Paris on the original troll's list. I
haven't biked when I've visited there, but there didn't seem
to be a particularly high amount of bicycling and the
traffic didn't seem particularly bicycle-friendly. Outside
Paris (and I don't mean the suburbs) there seemed to be both
more biking and a more bike-friendly atmosphere. This
impression is based on relatively brief visits, so it may
not be accurate.

--
---
Mike Kruger Blog:
http://journals.aol.com/mikekr/ZbicyclistsZlog/

 

[Red Cloud]

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Red Cloud wrote:
> > 1. Hamburg
> >
> > 2. Rome
> >
> > 3. London
> >
> > 4. paris
> >
> > 5. Other European big and small cities
> >
> > These europeans cities could be the best place for
> > biker riders,
>
>
> I doubt it. Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as
> the best example of how to plan and build for bicycle
> commuters.

I forgot Holland!!! I even believe that HOlland could be
the best biker nation on earth.

 

[Red Cloud]

"cheg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<6Wjvc.41027$Ly.26887@attbi_s01>...
> "Red Cloud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > 1. Hamburg
> >
> > 2. Rome
> >
> > 3. London
> >
> > 4. paris
> >
> > 5. Other European big and small cities
> >
> > These europeans cities could be the best place for
> > biker riders, and most Americna city like LA, NY,
> > Pheoneix, Seattle are the worst place for biker. The
> > reason is that in America most folks do not ride a
> > bike. As matter of fact, probably less than 1% of
> > American population are relying bike as a primary
> > transportation. In europe, I bet that number of
> > population relying on bike as the primary
> > transportatoin are quite high.
> >
> > I've never rode a bike in real bike city. Someday I
> > will. I bet that it's not going to be same feeling to
> > ride a bike among a hugh bike populations verse a sole
> > rider in big street in US.
>
>
> I'd take Seattle over Rome any day for bike commuting.
> Seattle does not have the plague of moped riders talking
> on cel phones filling every gap in the car traffic.

Do you see a lots bikers in Seattle?

 

[Drs]

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

[...]

> I doubt it. Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as
> the best example of how to plan and build for bicycle
> commuters.

How much of it is actually planned? I lived in Almere and
Amsterdam. I thought the bike paths (and roads generally) in
Almere were designed by people on acid. And Amsterdam wasn't
planned, it's old and organic (not that that's a bad thing).

--

A: Top-posters.
B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

 

[Red Cloud]

"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 00:49:01 -0700, Red Cloud wrote:
>
> > 1. Hamburg
> >
> > 2. Rome
> >
> > 3. London
> >
> > 4. paris
> >
> > 5. Other European big and small cities
>
> Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just
> assuming that, since they are in Europe, they must be
> better than anything the US has to offer? Conversely, if
> you try riding in New York, or (so I am told) Seattle, or
> even Philadelphia, you might find that they can be
> exceptional places to ride.

Easy to assume European cities are more friendly to bikers
than any American cities. Nobody can't deny fact. Seattle
or NY or Phil can't be call as the biker city cuz their
residents do not depend on bike much unlike where you see
a signficant portion of Europeans are depending on bike.

 

[Red Cloud]

"S o r n i" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> David L. Johnson wrote:
> > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 00:49:01 -0700, Red Cloud wrote:
> >
> >> 1. Hamburg
> >>
> >> 2. Rome
> >>
> >> 3. London
> >>
> >> 4. paris
> >>
> >> 5. Other European big and small cities
> >
> > Have you tried to ride in these cities, or are you just
> > assuming that, since they are in Europe, they must be
> > better than anything the US has to offer?
>
> I hate it when I click on an unread post and then actually
> consider its content, BEFORE noting the author.
>
> Bill "Red Cloud Troll" S.

Just hate yourself moron.

 

[Elisa Francesca]

Mike Kruger wrote:

> I was surprised to see Paris on the original troll's list.
> I haven't biked when I've visited there, but there didn't
> seem to be a particularly high amount of bicycling and the
> traffic didn't seem particularly bicycle-friendly. Outside
> Paris (and I don't mean the suburbs) there seemed to be
> both more biking and a more bike-friendly atmosphere.

Paris is certainly better than London, but should be quite
far down on anyone's list of European biking cities. There
are some bike lanes here and there, but most of the time you
have to share the bus corridors - with the buses! Traffic
can be demonic - I made the mistake of trying a route
through the 15th Arrondissement on a Friday afternoon just
before a long weekend and it was nose-to-nose trucks. Also,
as I wrote in my thread on the Coulee Verte, there is a
tendency not to upkeep bike paths even when they are
provided, and to design them in such a way as to be
practically unuseable.

I know it's only a smallish town, but I think Cambridge UK
should rank on any list of great European cycling cities.

EFR Ile de France

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

DRS wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
> [...]
>
>> I doubt it. Here in Europe we usually consider Holland as
>> the best example of how to plan and build for bicycle
>> commuters.
>
> How much of it is actually planned? I lived in Almere and
> Amsterdam. I thought the bike paths (and roads generally)
> in Almere were designed by people on acid. And Amsterdam
> wasn't planned, it's old and organic (not that that's a
> bad thing).

That's the difference between Europe and the U.S. We built
our towns long before any cars and bicycles were around,
then we built the roads. In the U.S. it seems you build the
roads first and then the town. Planning over here is
utilizing what you've already got as best as possible.

--
Perre

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