Rear brake screaming on tailwind

[johnson..]

Hi

Thanks to all who can shed some light on my problem.

I bought some koolstop mountain pads a few weeks back and am having a hell
of a time getting the pads adjusted right. The problem is mostly on the rear
but does happen on the front sometimes but not as frequently or as loud.

I have toed-in the pads so much that the brakes are spongy, don't stop that
well, the lever just about hits the handlebar grip and the pads are still
screaming

It happens with easy to heavy braking. Dry or wet doesn't seem to make a
difference. Could be fine in the morning then screaming in the afternoon.

When I got the pads I installed them on a Wednesday went riding. Freakin
scary, rear locked up on pavement and no noise. Thursday morning nothin but
noise. Toed-in the pads and got to work. Friday morning had to fiddle with
the pads again on the way to work.

I mean it sounds like a train in the movies trying to stop before it hits a
baby carriage!!

Could this be frame flex or do these pads have a rep for this?

===========================

Possible solutions:

1/ Tomorrow I'm gonna put on the original pads. They are just cheap shimano
type compound that don't work worth a damn in the rain but they will do for
now.

2/ I'm also gonna try a brake booster "U" dohicky. That will have to wait
until payday this Thursday.

3/ One of the owners of a LBS used to make custom bike frames. He may be
able to install a disk brake on the rear. But that will have to wait for the
winter.

 

[Tom Sherman]

johnson.. wrote:

> Hi
>
> Thanks to all who can shed some light on my problem.
>
> I bought some koolstop mountain pads a few weeks back and am having a hell
> of a time getting the pads adjusted right. The problem is mostly on the rear
> but does happen on the front sometimes but not as frequently or as loud.
>
> I have toed-in the pads so much that the brakes are spongy, don't stop that
> well, the lever just about hits the handlebar grip and the pads are still
> screaming
>
> It happens with easy to heavy braking. Dry or wet doesn't seem to make a
> difference. Could be fine in the morning then screaming in the afternoon.
>
> When I got the pads I installed them on a Wednesday went riding. Freakin
> scary, rear locked up on pavement and no noise. Thursday morning nothin but
> noise. Toed-in the pads and got to work. Friday morning had to fiddle with
> the pads again on the way to work.
>
> I mean it sounds like a train in the movies trying to stop before it hits a
> baby carriage!!
>
> Could this be frame flex or do these pads have a rep for this?
>
> ===========================
>
> Possible solutions:
>
> 1/ Tomorrow I'm gonna put on the original pads. They are just cheap shimano
> type compound that don't work worth a damn in the rain but they will do for
> now.
>
> 2/ I'm also gonna try a brake booster "U" dohicky. That will have to wait
> until payday this Thursday.
>
> 3/ One of the owners of a LBS used to make custom bike frames. He may be
> able to install a disk brake on the rear. But that will have to wait for the
> winter.

Look at the rear chainstays as the brake is applied - you should be able
to observed visible outward flexure of the stays. [1] The "horseshoe"
brake brace is enough of a necessity that RANS should consider making it
standard equipment.

If the stays are flexing significantly [2] under braking, the toe of the
pads will also vary with applied braking force.

[1] At least this is the case for the 1998-2000 Tailwind. [3]
[2] It is of course impossible to eliminate flexure, since infinitely
stiff materials do not exist.
[3] Also true for the 1997-2000 Rocket, which is why I had the dealer
put a brace on the rear brake at the time of purchase of my Rocket.

--
Tom Sherman – Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[johnson..]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> johnson.. wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks to all who can shed some light on my problem.
> >
> > I bought some koolstop mountain pads a few weeks back and am having a
hell
> > of a time getting the pads adjusted right. The problem is mostly on the
rear
> > but does happen on the front sometimes but not as frequently or as loud.
> >
> > I have toed-in the pads so much that the brakes are spongy, don't stop
that
> > well, the lever just about hits the handlebar grip and the pads are
still
> > screaming
> >
> > It happens with easy to heavy braking. Dry or wet doesn't seem to make a
> > difference. Could be fine in the morning then screaming in the
afternoon.
> >
> > When I got the pads I installed them on a Wednesday went riding. Freakin
> > scary, rear locked up on pavement and no noise. Thursday morning nothin
but
> > noise. Toed-in the pads and got to work. Friday morning had to fiddle
with
> > the pads again on the way to work.
> >
> > I mean it sounds like a train in the movies trying to stop before it
hits a
> > baby carriage!!
> >
> > Could this be frame flex or do these pads have a rep for this?
> >
> > ===========================
> >
> > Possible solutions:
> >
> > 1/ Tomorrow I'm gonna put on the original pads. They are just cheap
shimano
> > type compound that don't work worth a damn in the rain but they will do
for
> > now.
> >
> > 2/ I'm also gonna try a brake booster "U" dohicky. That will have to
wait
> > until payday this Thursday.
> >
> > 3/ One of the owners of a LBS used to make custom bike frames. He may be
> > able to install a disk brake on the rear. But that will have to wait for
the
> > winter.
>
> Look at the rear chainstays as the brake is applied - you should be able
> to observed visible outward flexure of the stays. [1] The "horseshoe"
> brake brace is enough of a necessity that RANS should consider making it
> standard equipment.
>
> If the stays are flexing significantly [2] under braking, the toe of the
> pads will also vary with applied braking force.
>
> [1] At least this is the case for the 1998-2000 Tailwind. [3]
> [2] It is of course impossible to eliminate flexure, since infinitely
> stiff materials do not exist.
> [3] Also true for the 1997-2000 Rocket, which is why I had the dealer
> put a brace on the rear brake at the time of purchase of my Rocket.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman – Curmudgeon and Pedant

Hi Tom
So far 4 people, on various mailing list, have stated a "U" brace helped
with there Stratus. Thinks I'll pick up one tomorrow. Also I noticed the
rear cones are a little loose and if that rim is moving a little
side-to-side under braking it may result in no toe-in? At least for one of
the pads?

 

[Tom Sherman]

johnson.. wrote:

> Hi Tom
> So far 4 people, on various mailing list, have stated a "U" brace helped
> with there Stratus. Thinks I'll pick up one tomorrow. Also I noticed the
> rear cones are a little loose and if that rim is moving a little
> side-to-side under braking it may result in no toe-in? At least for one of
> the pads?

The "U" braces certainly improve rear braking on the 1-1/2" diameter
main tube RANS Rocket and Tailwind/Wave and reportedly are also
beneficial on the V-Rex.

I would suggest getting the rear hub properly adjusted (if it is a
cup-and-cone design), making sure the rear wheel is centered and
properly trued, and making sure the brake is properly centered. Stick
with the "salmon" brake pads if possible, since on a Tailwind you will
want to primarily use the rear brake in the wet, as front wheel lockup
will dump you very quickly.

--
Tom Sherman – Curmudgeon and Pedant
RANS “Wavewind” and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and Dragonflyer

 

[johnson..]

Thanks Tom. Mission accomplished. Went to the LBS and installed a "U" brace,
put the koolstop pads back on with minimal toe-in. Quiet and a damn strong
brake.

Following the suggestions of many folks I did the following:

1/ Tightened the rear cones, they were a bit loose.

2/ Tightened a few spokes on the rear wheel.

3/ Cleaned the pads and rim.

My ideas:

1/ Removed the brakes from the frame and grease the posts.

2/ Greased the cable that runs through the noodle.

3/ Put the original **** pads back on to get to the LBS without hearing
damage.

4/ Bought a brake booster at the LBS. Damn these things are cheap now that
we have so many disk brakes out there.

Things I did not do nor would I ever do:

1/ Remove all toe-in.

2/ Toe-out the pads.

Good ideas but not done:

1/ Use different pads - mostly for financial reasons. I can't just throw
away brand new pads.



"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> johnson.. wrote:
>
> > Hi Tom
> > So far 4 people, on various mailing list, have stated a "U" brace
helped
> > with there Stratus. Thinks I'll pick up one tomorrow. Also I noticed the
> > rear cones are a little loose and if that rim is moving a little
> > side-to-side under braking it may result in no toe-in? At least for one
of
> > the pads?
>
> The "U" braces certainly improve rear braking on the 1-1/2" diameter
> main tube RANS Rocket and Tailwind/Wave and reportedly are also
> beneficial on the V-Rex.
>
> I would suggest getting the rear hub properly adjusted (if it is a
> cup-and-cone design), making sure the rear wheel is centered and
> properly trued, and making sure the brake is properly centered. Stick
> with the "salmon" brake pads if possible, since on a Tailwind you will
> want to primarily use the rear brake in the wet, as front wheel lockup
> will dump you very quickly.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman – Curmudgeon and Pedant
> RANS “Wavewind” and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and Dragonflyer
>

 

[meb]

Hi

Thanks to all who can shed some light on my problem.

I bought some koolstop mountain pads a few weeks back and am having a hell
of a time getting the pads adjusted right. The problem is mostly on the rear
but does happen on the front sometimes but not as frequently or as loud.

I have toed-in the pads so much that the brakes are spongy, don't stop that
well, the lever just about hits the handlebar grip and the pads are still
screaming

It happens with easy to heavy braking. Dry or wet doesn't seem to make a
difference. Could be fine in the morning then screaming in the afternoon.

When I got the pads I installed them on a Wednesday went riding. Freakin
scary, rear locked up on pavement and no noise. Thursday morning nothin but
noise. Toed-in the pads and got to work. Friday morning had to fiddle with
the pads again on the way to work.

I mean it sounds like a train in the movies trying to stop before it hits a
baby carriage!!

Could this be frame flex or do these pads have a rep for this?

===========================

Possible solutions:

1/ Tomorrow I'm gonna put on the original pads. They are just cheap shimano
type compound that don't work worth a damn in the rain but they will do for
now.

2/ I'm also gonna try a brake booster "U" dohicky. That will have to wait
until payday this Thursday.

3/ One of the owners of a LBS used to make custom bike frames. He may be
able to install a disk brake on the rear. But that will have to wait for the
winter.

You don't suppose this could be a marketting ploy planting subliminal messages that say buy a Screamer?

 

[bruce]

I have a Rans Screamer and I find I'm getting the same subliminal
message. nothing I do seems to quite the beast. One advantage is that in a
group I dont have to call out slowing!!

Bruce

"meb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> johnson.. Wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks to all who can shed some light on my problem.
> >
> > I bought some koolstop mountain pads a few weeks back and am having a
> > hell
> > of a time getting the pads adjusted right. The problem is mostly on the
> > rear
> > but does happen on the front sometimes but not as frequently or as
> > loud.
> >
> > I have toed-in the pads so much that the brakes are spongy, don't stop
> > that
> > well, the lever just about hits the handlebar grip and the pads are
> > still
> > screaming
> >
> > It happens with easy to heavy braking. Dry or wet doesn't seem to make
> > a
> > difference. Could be fine in the morning then screaming in the
> > afternoon.
> >
> > When I got the pads I installed them on a Wednesday went riding.
> > Freakin
> > scary, rear locked up on pavement and no noise. Thursday morning nothin
> > but
> > noise. Toed-in the pads and got to work. Friday morning had to fiddle
> > with
> > the pads again on the way to work.
> >
> > I mean it sounds like a train in the movies trying to stop before it
> > hits a
> > baby carriage!!
> >
> > Could this be frame flex or do these pads have a rep for this?
> >
> > ===========================
> >
> > Possible solutions:
> >
> > 1/ Tomorrow I'm gonna put on the original pads. They are just cheap
> > shimano
> > type compound that don't work worth a damn in the rain but they will do
> > for
> > now.
> >
> > 2/ I'm also gonna try a brake booster "U" dohicky. That will have to
> > wait
> > until payday this Thursday.
> >
> > 3/ One of the owners of a LBS used to make custom bike frames. He may
> > be
> > able to install a disk brake on the rear. But that will have to wait
> > for the
> > winter.
>
> You don't suppose this could be a marketting ploy planting subliminal
> messages that say buy a Screamer?
>
>
> --
> meb
>

 

[johnson..]

I spoke way to soon. Had to put the original **** pads back on last night.
Lets see how it goes today. Funny thing though, lots of noise under light to
medium pressure but none under heavy panic type forces.

"johnson.." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks Tom. Mission accomplished. Went to the LBS and installed a "U"
brace,
> put the koolstop pads back on with minimal toe-in. Quiet and a damn strong
> brake.
>
> Following the suggestions of many folks I did the following:
>
> 1/ Tightened the rear cones, they were a bit loose.
>
> 2/ Tightened a few spokes on the rear wheel.
>
> 3/ Cleaned the pads and rim.
>
> My ideas:
>
> 1/ Removed the brakes from the frame and grease the posts.
>
> 2/ Greased the cable that runs through the noodle.
>
> 3/ Put the original **** pads back on to get to the LBS without hearing
> damage.
>
> 4/ Bought a brake booster at the LBS. Damn these things are cheap now that
> we have so many disk brakes out there.
>
> Things I did not do nor would I ever do:
>
> 1/ Remove all toe-in.
>
> 2/ Toe-out the pads.
>
> Good ideas but not done:
>
> 1/ Use different pads - mostly for financial reasons. I can't just throw
> away brand new pads.
>
>
>
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > johnson.. wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Tom
> > > So far 4 people, on various mailing list, have stated a "U" brace
> helped
> > > with there Stratus. Thinks I'll pick up one tomorrow. Also I noticed
the
> > > rear cones are a little loose and if that rim is moving a little
> > > side-to-side under braking it may result in no toe-in? At least for
one
> of
> > > the pads?
> >
> > The "U" braces certainly improve rear braking on the 1-1/2" diameter
> > main tube RANS Rocket and Tailwind/Wave and reportedly are also
> > beneficial on the V-Rex.
> >
> > I would suggest getting the rear hub properly adjusted (if it is a
> > cup-and-cone design), making sure the rear wheel is centered and
> > properly trued, and making sure the brake is properly centered. Stick
> > with the "salmon" brake pads if possible, since on a Tailwind you will
> > want to primarily use the rear brake in the wet, as front wheel lockup
> > will dump you very quickly.
> >
> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant
> > RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and Dragonflyer
> >
>
>

 

[Jeff Wills]

"johnson.." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I spoke way to soon. Had to put the original **** pads back on last night.
> Lets see how it goes today. Funny thing though, lots of noise under light to
> medium pressure but none under heavy panic type forces.
>

Mine do that too. Try doing several hard stops in succession to bed in
the pads. Squeeze hard, no matter what the noise.

Jeff