rear hub suggestions for Cannondale touring bike?



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David Johnston

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I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need to build a new wheel for it. I use it mainly
for commuting and getting around town, almost never for more than 25 miles in a day and usually for
much less. I want to keep the possibility of loaded touring open in the future. I think I want to
use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure about hubs. I can't even figure out what the width is of
the rear dropout (why didn't they include that information in the owner's manual?).

So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9 speed, under $100.

-David
 
"David Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need to build a new wheel for it. I use it
> mainly for commuting and getting around town, almost never for more than 25 miles in a day and
> usually for much less. I want to keep the possibility of loaded touring open in the future. I
> think I want to use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure about hubs. I can't even figure out what
> the width is of the rear dropout (why didn't they include that information in the owner's
> manual?).

This is simple to measure. Remove the rear wheel, and measure between the dropout faces with a
ruler. To save you the trouble, it's 135mm.

> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9 speed, under $100.

Shimano XT, from US$40.

James Thomson
 
> I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need to build a new wheel for it. I use it
> mainly for commuting and getting around town, almost never for more than 25 miles in a day and
> usually for much less. I want to keep the possibility of loaded touring open in the future. I
> think I want to use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure about hubs. I can't even figure out what
> the width is of the rear dropout (why didn't they include that information in the owner's
> manual?).
>
> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9 speed, under $100.
>
> -David

Got a ruler? Measure the distance between the inner faces of the dropouts, or the distance between
the outer faces of the hub's locknuts. It will be either 130 or 135 millimeters.

Buy a Shimano hub. Common, sturdy, inexpensive, under $100.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR
 
> I can't even figure out what the width is of the rear dropout

What type of hubs were on before. You need to know the spacing before you get a hub. B

(remove clothes to reply)
 
[email protected] (David Johnston) wrote:

> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9 speed, under $100.

That bike has 135mm dropout spacing, so any 36h MTB hub should fit and most of them will be sturdy
enough to do the job.

Sunrace JuJu hubs have sealed cartridge bearings and are simple, reliable and inexpensive. Better
IMO than any Shimano hub at any price. They have no brand-name prestige, though, if that's
important to you.

http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/hubs/hubs.html

Cambria Bicycle Outfitters has nice Real Design rear hubs on sale cheap, though that manufacturer is
no longer in business.

Chalo Colina
 
Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:

> Buy a Shimano hub. Common, sturdy, inexpensive, under $100.

Cheesy, fitted with non-replaceable bearings, more expensive than quarters but not as well made, in
league with Satan.

Shimano parts are what you got with your bike, or what you scavanged for free, or what you accepted
out of desperation because you were in the middle of a tour, but not something you seek out. Have a
little dignity already.

Buying Shimano parts new, on purpose, is for folks who buy all their clothing at Old Navy Sweatshop
and eat all their meals at corporate chain restaurants. It shows a grave lack of discrimination and
creativity, works to stamp out variety and excellence, and isn't even cheaper than the real thing.

Lest you misunderstand me, Campy is a cop-out, too. It's Macintosh as compared to Windows, Michelob
as compared to Budweiser-- still lame and missing the point.

There's a world of wondrous variety out there if you only bother to look.

Chalo Colina

open source, microbrews, and cottage industry bike parts, dammit!
 
If you want worry-free performance, consider a Phil hub. I've ridden my Phil equipped tourer to some
obscure places, and a large number of miles over the past 10 years. Never had a failure, or even a
hiccup from the hubs/bearings.

They don't fit your price range thou', that's the downside, but if you plan on having the bike for a
long time...

-pete

"David Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need to build a new wheel for it. I use it
> mainly for commuting and getting around town, almost never for more than 25 miles in a day and
> usually for much less. I want to keep the possibility of loaded touring open in the future. I
> think I want to use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure about hubs. I can't even figure out what
> the width is of the rear dropout (why didn't they include that information in the owner's
> manual?).
>
> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9 speed, under $100.
>
> -David
 
David-<< So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9 speed, under $100.
>><BR><BR>

XT if 135mm ultegra if 130mm-assuming shimano-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

> chump-<< Buy a Shimano hub. Common, sturdy, inexpensive, under $100.
>
> Cheesy, fitted with non-replaceable bearings, more expensive than quarters but not as well made,
> in league with Satan. >><BR><BR>
>
> Not a fan of shimano BUT at least describe their hubs accurately-replacable, loose ball
> bearings...

A ball bearing is an inner race, and outer race and a complement of balls. Are you suggesting that
Shimano hubs allow you to replace all these things?

Hubs with non-replaceable outer races are ridiculous, like cranks with non-replaceable chainrings--

-- oh yeah, Shimano makes those, too.

Chalo Colina
 
[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

> They have replaceable bearings, not cups, replaceable cones.
>
> << Hubs with non-replaceable outer races are ridiculous, like cranks with non-replaceable
> chainrings-- >><BR><BR>
>
> 'Outer races' are called 'cones' and these are replaceable also...

"Outer" bearing races are the ones which are larger in diameter. They are part of the bearing. On
Shimano hubs, they can't be replaced. Unless you replace both races of a bearing, you haven't
replaced the bearing now, have you? It's like deciding that your shoes are uncomfortable and just
changing the left one.

I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a bearing on one of those, and I decided
to just replace the balls and one of the races, I might get fired, and I might be responsible for
somebody getting killed.

I will reiterate my point. Shimano hub bearings are not replaceable. If Shimano made parts for an
aircraft or spacecraft, I wouldn't fly in
it.

Chalo Colina
 
[email protected] (Phil Brown) wrote:

> Worn hub bearings aren't life threatening. Even a badly damaged race and cone will go for many,
> many miles.

That does not excuse Shimano's bad design. There's only one wear issue in a hub, and Shimano's hubs
can't be rebuilt to cure that issue. That in effect gives not only the hub, but the whole wheel a
finite lifespan irrespective of maintenance, simply because no bearing lasts forever.

A hole poked in a solid wooden hub will go for many miles, too. But ball bearings are there for a
reason, and other machines that are designed to be repaired use bearings that can be replaced.

Shimano could just as easily do the same, but instead they opt for disposability without the cost
savings usually associated therewith.

> And if you demand completely replaceable cup and cone bearings Campy is for you.

Campy is most definitely _not_ for me, being fragile overpriced junk with goofy proprietary
bearings. They almost manage to defeat the purpose of bearing replaceability by using bearings that
are not commodity items.

Even mainland Chinese manufacturers manage to make decent hubs with industrially standard cartridge
bearings. Why Shimano and Campagnolo don't get with the program makes no sense unless you assume
they don't really want their products to give long service, be inexpensive to repair, or be
rebuildable in the distant future.

Chalo Colina
 
"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Phil Brown) wrote:
>
> That does not excuse Shimano's bad design. There's only one wear issue in a hub, and Shimano's
> hubs can't be rebuilt to cure that issue. That in effect gives not only the hub, but the whole
> wheel a finite lifespan irrespective of maintenance, simply because no bearing lasts forever.

I guess the real question is what the service life of a typical Shimano outer race actually is. I
have not failed one yet, but then I've only reached perhaps a few 10's of thousands of miles on my
highest mileage hubs. Wheel rims are generally more expensive than hubs (at least when you use the
typical Shimano/Mavic combo). We all accept the finite life of rims, which seems to be far shorter
than the finite life of Shimano hubs. What's the big deal?

Anybody have any anecdotal reports of Shimano hub failures/mileage?

> A hole poked in a solid wooden hub will go for many miles, too. But ball bearings are there for a
> reason, and other machines that are designed to be repaired use bearings that can be replaced.
>
> Shimano could just as easily do the same, but instead they opt for disposability without the cost
> savings usually associated therewith.

Shimano is doing something to lower costs. I recently bought a *set* of wheels with LX hubs (very
nice hubs), CR18 rims and DT spokes for $75. I'm not expecting to pass those hubs down to my
grandchildren. How many miles/years do I need to get before I've gotten my money's worth? Even at
the typical Ultegra/OpenPro road wheelset price point (~$200), serviceability starts becoming a
non-issue in that it's just cheaper to buy a whole new wheel or set. Most high-end wheels are sold
to creatures of fashion, who have a much shorter style half-life, so durability/serviceability isn't
an issue either. That leaves a very small segment who would actually want to ride more than a few
10K miles on a hub.
 
Peter Chisholm asked:

> What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Welllll, a couple of years ago I visited Kill Devil Hill, N.C. where=20 they have a replica of the
Wright Flyer. It turned out to contain quite =

a few bicycle parts, not at all to my surprise.

The "landing gear" (actually take-off gear, it used a row of edgewise=20 2x4s as a take-off rail)
was a couple of old-timey looking front bicycle =

hubs. The flange spacing of the hubs was a good fit for the 2 x 4s.

I have no doubt that these hubs used loose balls...

Sheldon "Centennial's Comin'!" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The secrets of flight will not be mastered within our lifetime=85 |
| =85not within a thousand years =96Wilbur Wright, 1901 |=

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Chalo Colina thinks Shimano hubs are bad 'cause the cups are not replaceable:

> That does not excuse Shimano's bad design. There's only one wear issue in a hub, and Shimano's
> hubs can't be rebuilt to cure that issue. That in effect gives not only the hub, but the whole
> wheel a finite lifespan irrespective of maintenance, simply because no bearing lasts forever.

Chalo, I gotta say this is a bum rap, and that singling out Shimano this way is unreasonable
and unfair.

Leaving cartridge bearing hubs out of the discussion, traditional cup-and-cone hubs have always had
non-replaceable cups, with the exception of Campagnolo.

This is very rarely a problem for hubs given reasonable maintenance, because cones wear out LONG
before cups do. Not only does the cone have a much smaller active surface are than the cup, the cup
bears all of the load on one side, while the cup is in constant revolution, so the stress is shared
all the way around its circumference.

In all my years of wrenching, I think I may once have replaced a cup in a hub. In practice they are
virtually immortal unless maintenance is neglected or they're ridden while misadjusted.

Shimano hubs are far and away the best value available. Nothing even a little better is available
for less than 4 times the price.

Sheldon "Phils Are Nice" Brown +--------------------------------------------------------+
| Happy Moon Landing Day to all! None of us should | be working today--we should all be
| celebrating the | most important event of the last millennium! |
+--------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

> What in aircraft uses loose balls??? Nothing I suspect.

Bingo!

Aircraft have to be light, strong, and serviceable, and they must work properly every time they fly.
No sane engineer would use cup 'n cone for that. Yet those are qualities I like in my bike too.

Chalo
 
"Chalo"> >I work with flying machines. If I was required to replace a bearing
> >on one of those, and I decided to just replace the balls and one of the races, I might get fired,
> >and I might be responsible for somebody getting killed.
> >
> >I will reiterate my point. Shimano hub bearings are not replaceable. If Shimano made parts for an
> >aircraft or spacecraft, I wouldn't fly in
> >it.

"Phil Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Get over yourself, Chumpy. Worn hub bearings aren't life threatening. Even
a
> badly damaged race and cone will go for many, many miles. And even the
worst
> case-a broken axle-isn't so bad on a bike because the axles are clamped at
both
> ends. Any bike machanic has stories about removing a wheel that turned
fine
> only to have the axle come apart when he did. And if you demand completely replaceable cup and
> cone bearings Campy is for you.

I believe Chalo is advocating hubs such as the Campagnolo Veloce, Phil Wood and the cool SunRace
JuJu which use readily available cartridge bearing assemblies. I like my traditional hubs but you
have to admit that a cartridge bearing type hub is logically better for service by your average guy
because the entire bearing system gets replaced with little suffering, there's no subjective
adjustment and they are dirt cheap everywhere.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:06:48 +0000, Sheldon Brown wrote:

> Chalo, I gotta say this is a bum rap, and that singling out Shimano this way is unreasonable
> and unfair.
>
> Leaving cartridge bearing hubs out of the discussion, traditional cup-and-cone hubs have always
> had non-replaceable cups, with the exception of Campagnolo.

And even that is questionable, as I found out when trying to replace the cups on an abused Record
hub I acquired. They physically can be replaced, but the part is unavailable.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is _`\(,_ | not that they are
extreme, but that they are intolerant. (_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy
 
Phil Brown <[email protected]> wrote: [Chalo Cholina likes cartridge bearlings]
>Of course you'll have to accept the seal drag that comes with them which isn't present on a cup and
>cone but maybe you're just a big strong guy and just overpower it.

Since a child of five would be hard put to notice it while riding along, it seems likely that it
wouldn't be much of an issue.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
 
Without jumping into the flamewar elsewhwere. If you are the sort of rider who opens a hub a couple
of times a year (or more), then shimano will do you very well. It's the vanilla choice for hubs, but
it has the advantage of being compatible with almost everything nonItalian, and parts are widely
available. The nonreplaceable LH cup can be killed with abuse and neglect, and once dead, cannot be
replaced. If you live where it rains (as I do) then this is a consideration. I have, with all due
apologies to captain Brown, replaced quite a few cups in a number of different kinds of hubs.
Shimano does not make it easy for the maintainence-challenged. If you are also considering loaded
touring with this wheel, then availability of parts is also a serious consideration for you. You
will find that parts for most of the aftermarket options are quite difficult to find outside of
major urban areas. Cartridge bearings can be had most anywhere, since manufacturers tend to use
preexisting bearing right out of the IBN catalog. Dedicated parts for the hub are another question
entirely. Most bike shops, including some very good ones, don't stock a wide variety of aftermarket
hub bits. Part blown, must be ordered. If you can swing the cost, then Phil Wood is a marvellous
thing. Nothing to that hub except machined aluminum, Stainless, and bearings. I sell quite a few of
them to high-mileage commuters, tourists, and people who are tired of playing with disposable hubs.
Buy it, buy it once, and forget about it for a long time. Bearings can be replaced in a couple of
minutes, and are available most places in the industrialized world. Yes I'm a fan. Eamon

[email protected] (David Johnston) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I've got a 1999 Cannondale T800 touring bike and I need to build a new wheel for it. I use it
> mainly for commuting and getting around town, almost never for more than 25 miles in a day and
> usually for much less. I want to keep the possibility of loaded touring open in the future. I
> think I want to use the Mavic T520 rim, but I'm not sure about hubs. I can't even figure out what
> the width is of the rear dropout (why didn't they include that information in the owner's
> manual?).
>
> So can anyone recommend a hub? The requirements are: 36 holes, 8/9 speed, under $100.
>
> -David
 
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