Rear wheel dilema

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Michael Shaffer, Jan 11, 2006.

  1. Hey, I'm not sure what to do. I need my bike to be in reliable condition
    by the 23rd, when school starts. The problem is the rear wheel is
    getting really out of true. I also noticed that the axle is bent.. So I
    just bought the following from performancebike:


    Shimano Ultegra 9 speed / Mavic Open Pro Silver Road Wheel - Rear
    Shimano® Ultegra® HG 9-speed Cassette
    Shimano HG-91 7/8 speed chain (replaced about a month ago when it broke).

    The problem is that I just put the cassette near the old chain and
    realized the difference... the chain is way too big.
    Here's a pic

    http://members.cox.net/michaelshaffer/cassette1.jpg

    The other potential problem is the 9 speed is wider than the frame, but
    maybe when the wheel comes tomorrow I'll find it fits correctly with the
    new freehub..

    So, what should I do? I guess the easiest thing would be to get a 9
    speed chain but would it work with the front chainrings?

    Do they make 8 speed freehubs that would go on a 9 speed wheel? Isn't
    the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel? If so why is the one I
    bought called 9 speed?

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
    Tags:


  2. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    Michael Shaffer wrote:
    > Hey, I'm not sure what to do. I need my bike to be in reliable condition
    > by the 23rd, when school starts.

    ....
    > So I just bought the following from performancebike:
    >
    > Shimano Ultegra 9 speed / Mavic Open Pro Silver Road Wheel - Rear
    > Shimano® Ultegra® HG 9-speed Cassette
    > Shimano HG-91 7/8 speed chain (replaced about a month ago when it broke).

    ....
    > the chain is way too big. Here's a pic
    >
    > http://members.cox.net/michaelshaffer/cassette1.jpg
    >
    > The other potential problem is the 9 speed is wider than the frame,


    So you bought a 9-speed wheel when your bike used something else? When
    you switch to a different number of speeds, usually you have to change
    more than just the wheel. Do you use indexed shifters? If so, you'll
    have to get 9-speed ones. And 9-speed cassettes do require 9-speed
    chains.

    > Do they make 8 speed freehubs that would go on a 9 speed wheel? Isn't
    > the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel? If so why is the one I
    > bought called 9 speed?


    The freehub body is the same for 8 and 9 speed cassettes. It is their
    sprocket thicknesses and spacings that differ. If you had 8-speed
    before, and if you haven' t tried to ride with your new cassette, you
    should clean the 9-speed cassette and return it for an 8-speed one.

    Chalo Colina
     
  3. Chalo wrote:
    > Michael Shaffer wrote:
    >
    >>Hey, I'm not sure what to do. I need my bike to be in reliable condition
    >>by the 23rd, when school starts.

    >
    > ...
    >
    >>So I just bought the following from performancebike:
    >>
    >>Shimano Ultegra 9 speed / Mavic Open Pro Silver Road Wheel - Rear
    >>Shimano® Ultegra® HG 9-speed Cassette
    >>Shimano HG-91 7/8 speed chain (replaced about a month ago when it broke).

    >
    > ...
    >
    >>the chain is way too big. Here's a pic
    >>
    >>http://members.cox.net/michaelshaffer/cassette1.jpg
    >>
    >>The other potential problem is the 9 speed is wider than the frame,

    >
    >
    > So you bought a 9-speed wheel when your bike used something else? When
    > you switch to a different number of speeds, usually you have to change
    > more than just the wheel. Do you use indexed shifters? If so, you'll
    > have to get 9-speed ones. And 9-speed cassettes do require 9-speed
    > chains.
    >
    >
    >>Do they make 8 speed freehubs that would go on a 9 speed wheel? Isn't
    >>the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel? If so why is the one I
    >>bought called 9 speed?

    >
    >
    > The freehub body is the same for 8 and 9 speed cassettes. It is their
    > sprocket thicknesses and spacings that differ. If you had 8-speed
    > before, and if you haven' t tried to ride with your new cassette, you
    > should clean the 9-speed cassette and return it for an 8-speed one.
    >
    > Chalo Colina
    >


    Thanks.. I haven't put the cassette on the wheel yet so I should be able
    to return it.
     
  4. On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:15:45 -0500, Michael Shaffer wrote:

    > So, what should I do? I guess the easiest thing would be to get a 9
    > speed chain but would it work with the front chainrings?


    Yes.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
    _`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  5. In article <[email protected]>,
    Michael Shaffer <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Hey, I'm not sure what to do. I need my bike to be in reliable condition
    > by the 23rd, when school starts. The problem is the rear wheel is
    > getting really out of true. I also noticed that the axle is bent.. So I
    > just bought the following from performancebike:
    >
    >
    > Shimano Ultegra 9 speed / Mavic Open Pro Silver Road Wheel - Rear
    > Shimano® Ultegra® HG 9-speed Cassette
    > Shimano HG-91 7/8 speed chain (replaced about a month ago when it broke).
    >
    > The problem is that I just put the cassette near the old chain and
    > realized the difference... the chain is way too big.
    > Here's a pic
    >
    > http://members.cox.net/michaelshaffer/cassette1.jpg
    >
    > The other potential problem is the 9 speed is wider than the frame,


    You mean that the new wheel does not fit in between the
    drop outs? If the frame is steel you can spread the rear
    drop outs and realign the drop outs. Otherwise

    > but
    > maybe when the wheel comes tomorrow I'll find it fits correctly with the
    > new freehub..
    >
    > So, what should I do?


    Ask before you buy?

    > I guess the easiest thing would be to get a 9
    > speed chain but would it work with the front chainrings?


    Yes it will

    >
    > Do they make 8 speed freehubs that would go on a 9 speed wheel?


    No. Not without bodging, and you are not ready.

    > Isn't
    > the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel?


    No.

    > If so why is the one I
    > bought called 9 speed?


    I dunno.

    Where did you buy the stuff? A local store? Then you can
    take it in and they will help you sort it out.

    --
    Michael Press
     
  6. Michael Press wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Michael Shaffer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Hey, I'm not sure what to do. I need my bike to be in reliable condition
    >>by the 23rd, when school starts. The problem is the rear wheel is
    >>getting really out of true. I also noticed that the axle is bent.. So I
    >>just bought the following from performancebike:
    >>
    >>
    >>Shimano Ultegra 9 speed / Mavic Open Pro Silver Road Wheel - Rear
    >>Shimano® Ultegra® HG 9-speed Cassette
    >>Shimano HG-91 7/8 speed chain (replaced about a month ago when it broke).
    >>
    >>The problem is that I just put the cassette near the old chain and
    >>realized the difference... the chain is way too big.
    >>Here's a pic
    >>
    >>http://members.cox.net/michaelshaffer/cassette1.jpg
    >>
    >>The other potential problem is the 9 speed is wider than the frame,

    >
    >
    > You mean that the new wheel does not fit in between the
    > drop outs? If the frame is steel you can spread the rear
    > drop outs and realign the drop outs. Otherwise
    >
    >
    >>but
    >>maybe when the wheel comes tomorrow I'll find it fits correctly with the
    >>new freehub..
    >>
    >>So, what should I do?

    >
    >
    > Ask before you buy?
    >
    >
    >>I guess the easiest thing would be to get a 9
    >>speed chain but would it work with the front chainrings?

    >
    >
    > Yes it will
    >
    >
    >>Do they make 8 speed freehubs that would go on a 9 speed wheel?

    >
    >
    > No. Not without bodging, and you are not ready.
    >


    OOps, I meant 8 speed cassettes. I was reading on Sheldon Brown's
    website and it looks like I can just get a 8 speed cassette. I think
    I'll do that instead of changing the chain, so I can still use my old
    wheel if I want to.

    >
    >>Isn't
    >>the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel?

    >
    >
    > No.
    >
    >
    >>If so why is the one I
    >>bought called 9 speed?

    >
    >
    > I dunno.
    >
    > Where did you buy the stuff? A local store? Then you can
    > take it in and they will help you sort it out.
    >



    performancebike.com I should of just taken it to the LBS oh well.
     
  7. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    Michael Press wrote:
    >
    > Michael Shaffer wrote:
    > >
    > > Isn't the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel?

    >
    > No.


    The hub is the same if it's got a Shimano compatible steel freehub
    body. Only the cassette is different.

    Chalo
     
  8. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    Michael Shaffer wrote:
    >
    > I haven't put the cassette on the wheel yet so I should be able to return it.


    I forgot to mention one more thing-- it sounds like you got a 135mm
    wide wheel to replace a 130mm wide wheel. If your bike is steel, it
    can be bent slightly open to match the wider hub. You should seek help
    from a bike shop for this.

    If your bike has an aluminum frame, the easiest thing is probably just
    to spread the frame a bit when you insert the wheel. It's a little bit
    annoying, but the reward is a significantly stronger wheel.

    Chalo Colina
     
  9. Chalo wrote:
    > Michael Shaffer wrote:
    >
    >>I haven't put the cassette on the wheel yet so I should be able to return it.

    >
    >
    > I forgot to mention one more thing-- it sounds like you got a 135mm
    > wide wheel to replace a 130mm wide wheel. If your bike is steel, it
    > can be bent slightly open to match the wider hub. You should seek help
    > from a bike shop for this.
    >
    > If your bike has an aluminum frame, the easiest thing is probably just
    > to spread the frame a bit when you insert the wheel. It's a little bit
    > annoying, but the reward is a significantly stronger wheel.
    >
    > Chalo Colina
    >


    I see, the bike is a Cannondale Criterium, so it should be easy to bend..
     
  10. Andy M-S

    Andy M-S Guest

    Do not, do NOT *bend* an aluminum frame. You can *maybe* flex it a
    little, but I'd avoid that as much as possible. Aluminum doesn't
    handle bending very well, and the result may well be the destruction of
    your frame in the short term. Steel flexes, and so it's easy to spread
    a frame a few mm (or compress it) to fit a wheel with different
    dimensions.

    What you need to do: Either (1) take your original wheel to an LBS and
    get it fixed (cheap) or (2)buy a new wheel with the correct spacing,
    and transfer your existing cassette to it (moderate). Using the
    original cassette means that you will also be able to use your existing
    chain (cassettes and chains can wear together, making mix-matching
    difficult, in principle). Alternatively, (3)new wheel, new cassette,
    and new chain (costly) but that will only work if (a) your shifters are
    friction-type/have a friction mode (8s shifters won't shift a 9s
    cassette properly) or (b)you're willing to replace them (EXPENSIVE!).
    So, from a cost perspective, cheapest to most expensive, your options
    are: 1,2,3a,3b. I'd take a stab at them in order...
     
  11. Michael Shaffer wrote:
    > Hey, I'm not sure what to do. I need my bike to be in reliable condition
    > by the 23rd, when school starts. The problem is the rear wheel is
    > getting really out of true. I also noticed that the axle is bent.. So I
    > just bought the following from performancebike:
    >
    >
    > Shimano Ultegra 9 speed / Mavic Open Pro Silver Road Wheel - Rear
    > Shimano® Ultegra® HG 9-speed Cassette
    > Shimano HG-91 7/8 speed chain (replaced about a month ago when it broke).
    >
    > The problem is that I just put the cassette near the old chain and
    > realized the difference... the chain is way too big.
    > Here's a pic
    >
    > http://members.cox.net/michaelshaffer/cassette1.jpg
    >
    > The other potential problem is the 9 speed is wider than the frame, but
    > maybe when the wheel comes tomorrow I'll find it fits correctly with the
    > new freehub..
    >
    > So, what should I do? I guess the easiest thing would be to get a 9
    > speed chain but would it work with the front chainrings?
    >
    > Do they make 8 speed freehubs that would go on a 9 speed wheel? Isn't
    > the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel? If so why is the one I
    > bought called 9 speed?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Mike


    Go to a decent bike shop with all the stuff you bought and your bicycle
    and let them explian the differences between 8s, 9s, 7s, rear triangle
    differences, shifter differences, etc. First hand.
     
  12. Chalo wrote:
    > Michael Shaffer wrote:
    > >
    > > I haven't put the cassette on the wheel yet so I should be able to return it.

    >
    > I forgot to mention one more thing-- it sounds like you got a 135mm
    > wide wheel to replace a 130mm wide wheel. If your bike is steel, it
    > can be bent slightly open to match the wider hub. You should seek help
    > from a bike shop for this.


    Ultegra 9s rear hub. I guessing his frame may be 126mm...since he
    mentioned the axle of the old wheel was bent=frewheel, probably a 6/7s
    one..126mm...
    >
    > If your bike has an aluminum frame, the easiest thing is probably just
    > to spread the frame a bit when you insert the wheel. It's a little bit
    > annoying, but the reward is a significantly stronger wheel.
    >
    > Chalo Colina
     
  13. Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > Chalo wrote:
    >
    >>Michael Shaffer wrote:
    >>
    >>>I haven't put the cassette on the wheel yet so I should be able to return it.

    >>
    >>I forgot to mention one more thing-- it sounds like you got a 135mm
    >>wide wheel to replace a 130mm wide wheel. If your bike is steel, it
    >>can be bent slightly open to match the wider hub. You should seek help
    >>from a bike shop for this.

    >
    >
    > Ultegra 9s rear hub. I guessing his frame may be 126mm...since he
    > mentioned the axle of the old wheel was bent=frewheel, probably a 6/7s
    > one..126mm...
    >
    >>If your bike has an aluminum frame, the easiest thing is probably just
    >>to spread the frame a bit when you insert the wheel. It's a little bit
    >>annoying, but the reward is a significantly stronger wheel.
    >>
    >>Chalo Colina

    >
    >


    Yup, 6 speed and it's 126 mm
     
  14. Chalo wrote:
    > Michael Shaffer wrote:
    >
    >>I haven't put the cassette on the wheel yet so I should be able to return it.

    >
    >
    > I forgot to mention one more thing-- it sounds like you got a 135mm
    > wide wheel to replace a 130mm wide wheel. If your bike is steel, it
    > can be bent slightly open to match the wider hub. You should seek help
    > from a bike shop for this.
    >
    > If your bike has an aluminum frame, the easiest thing is probably just
    > to spread the frame a bit when you insert the wheel. It's a little bit
    > annoying, but the reward is a significantly stronger wheel.
    >
    > Chalo Colina
    >



    This is the wheel

    http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=19027&item=50-2645&slitrk=search&slisearch=true

    It says 130mm
     
  15. Ok, lets get the language nitpicking out of the way first. This is a
    problem, but it's not not a "dilemma." Dilemmas are problems in the
    form of "have your cake and eat it too"

    Michael Shaffer wrote:

    > Hey, I'm not sure what to do. I need my bike to be in reliable condition
    > by the 23rd, when school starts. The problem is the rear wheel is
    > getting really out of true. I also noticed that the axle is bent.. So I
    > just bought the following from performancebike:
    >
    >
    > Shimano Ultegra 9 speed / Mavic Open Pro Silver Road Wheel - Rear
    > Shimano® Ultegra® HG 9-speed Cassette
    > Shimano HG-91 7/8 speed chain (replaced about a month ago when it broke).
    >
    > The problem is that I just put the cassette near the old chain and
    > realized the difference... the chain is way too big.


    You should always replace the chain when you install a new cassette in
    any case, so this is not a real problem. Running a used chain on a new
    cassette leads to rapid wear of the casssette, and frequently causes
    jumping/skipping under load.

    > The other potential problem is the 9 speed is wider than the frame, but
    > maybe when the wheel comes tomorrow I'll find it fits correctly with the
    > new freehub..


    Ultegra hubs are the same 130 mm spacing as all "road" hubs made in the
    last 15 years, 8-/9-/10-speed.

    (In the Shimano world there's no difference among these. Your Ultegra
    hub will work with any Shimano Hypgerglide cassette, any number of
    speeds. If for some bizarre reason you wanted to use a 7-speed cassette
    that would work too, but you would need one extra spacer.)

    > So, what should I do? I guess the easiest thing would be to get a 9
    > speed chain but would it work with the front chainrings?


    Yes.

    > Do they make 8 speed freehubs that would go on a 9 speed wheel?


    There's no difference between an "8-speed" and "9-speed" Freehub.

    > Isn't the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel?


    Right.

    > If so why is the one I bought called 9 speed?


    It's about marketing, not any functional difference.

    See also http://sheldonbrown.com/k7

    Sheldon "No Dilemma, No Problem" Brown
    +--------------------------------------+
    | Any event, once it has occurred, |
    | can be made to appear inevitable |
    | by a competent historian. |
    | --Lee Simonson |
    +--------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>, Sheldon Brown
    ([email protected]) wrote:
    > Ok, lets get the language nitpicking out of the way first. This is a
    > problem, but it's not not a "dilemma." Dilemmas are problems in the
    > form of "have your cake and eat it too"
    >
    > Michael Shaffer wrote:
    >
    > > Hey, I'm not sure what to do. I need my bike to be in reliable condition
    > > by the 23rd, when school starts. The problem is the rear wheel is
    > > getting really out of true. I also noticed that the axle is bent.. So I
    > > just bought the following from performancebike:
    > >
    > >
    > > Shimano Ultegra 9 speed / Mavic Open Pro Silver Road Wheel - Rear
    > > Shimano® Ultegra® HG 9-speed Cassette
    > > Shimano HG-91 7/8 speed chain (replaced about a month ago when it broke).
    > >
    > > The problem is that I just put the cassette near the old chain and
    > > realized the difference... the chain is way too big.

    >
    > You should always replace the chain when you install a new cassette in
    > any case, so this is not a real problem. Running a used chain on a new
    > cassette leads to rapid wear of the casssette, and frequently causes
    > jumping/skipping under load.
    >
    > > The other potential problem is the 9 speed is wider than the frame, but
    > > maybe when the wheel comes tomorrow I'll find it fits correctly with the
    > > new freehub..

    >
    > Ultegra hubs are the same 130 mm spacing as all "road" hubs made in the
    > last 15 years, 8-/9-/10-speed.
    >
    > (In the Shimano world there's no difference among these. Your Ultegra
    > hub will work with any Shimano Hypgerglide cassette, any number of
    > speeds. If for some bizarre reason you wanted to use a 7-speed cassette
    > that would work too, but you would need one extra spacer.)
    >
    > > So, what should I do? I guess the easiest thing would be to get a 9
    > > speed chain but would it work with the front chainrings?

    >
    > Yes.
    >
    > > Do they make 8 speed freehubs that would go on a 9 speed wheel?

    >
    > There's no difference between an "8-speed" and "9-speed" Freehub.
    >
    > > Isn't the hub the same on a 8 speed and 9 speed wheel?

    >
    > Right.
    >
    > > If so why is the one I bought called 9 speed?

    >
    > It's about marketing, not any functional difference.
    >
    > See also http://sheldonbrown.com/k7
    >
    > Sheldon "No Dilemma, No Problem" Brown


    Great cars, them Dilemmas...

    (dies)

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Dead journalists make excellent objets d'art.
     
  17. Strayhorn

    Strayhorn Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Sheldon Brown
    > ([email protected]) wrote:


    > > Sheldon "No Dilemma, No Problem" Brown

    >
    > Great cars, them Dilemmas...


    I thought Lemmas were like Naugas, little animals raised for their skins
    to provide coverings for amplifiers and auto seats.

    --
    Strayhorn

    "Excuse me, brother, who you jivin' with that cosmik debris?" - F.Z.
     
  18. Hank Wirtz

    Hank Wirtz Guest

    "Andy M-S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Do not, do NOT *bend* an aluminum frame. You can *maybe* flex it a
    > little, but I'd avoid that as much as possible. Aluminum doesn't
    > handle bending very well, and the result may well be the destruction of
    > your frame in the short term. Steel flexes, and so it's easy to spread
    > a frame a few mm (or compress it) to fit a wheel with different
    > dimensions.


    I've got a 130mm wheel in a 126mm Cannondale. It flexes enough to get it in
    there without excessive grief.

    Definitely don't try to cold-set it, though.

    -Hank
     
  19. Hank Wirtz wrote:
    > "Andy M-S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>Do not, do NOT *bend* an aluminum frame. You can *maybe* flex it a
    >>little, but I'd avoid that as much as possible. Aluminum doesn't
    >>handle bending very well, and the result may well be the destruction of
    >>your frame in the short term. Steel flexes, and so it's easy to spread
    >>a frame a few mm (or compress it) to fit a wheel with different
    >>dimensions.

    >
    >
    > I've got a 130mm wheel in a 126mm Cannondale. It flexes enough to get it in
    > there without excessive grief.
    >
    > Definitely don't try to cold-set it, though.
    >
    > -Hank
    >
    >


    I just put the wheel on for the first time and it went in pretty easily.
    I tried taking it off too and that was just as easy as the 126mm wheel.
    I don't think a 135mm would fit but 130mm is fine.
     
  20. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    Michael Shaffer wrote:
    >
    > I just put the wheel on for the first time and it went in pretty easily.
    > I tried taking it off too and that was just as easy as the 126mm wheel.
    > I don't think a 135mm would fit but 130mm is fine.


    Well, that works out then, but it leaves the issue of your rear
    shifter. From what you said earlier, I thought you were starting with
    an 8 speed bike. Since you are going from 6 to 9 speeds, you have the
    choice of finding a 9s downtube shift lever (uncommon), updating your
    bike to brake-lever-mounted shifters ($$$), or else just using the
    friction mode on what you've got. Friction shifting 9 sprockets
    requires a lot more precision than shifting 6.

    This is all a lot more expensive and complicated than just getting a 6
    speed wheel for a 6 speed bike.

    Chalo Colina
     
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