Rear wheel pulled out of dropouts. Chainstay bent. Advice needed.

Yesterday I had the rear wheel come out of the dropouts while out of the seat climbing on my new
road bike. Luckily the left foot got out of the pedal and on to the road to do a bit of hopping,
stopping me from going over the bars. However the drive side (right) chainstay ended up fairly badly
bent - dropouts are now 151mm apart and the crank arm touches the chainstay.

Has anyone had anything like this happen? Any idea how?

I had the wheels off about 100kms before and had ridden this short but sharp hill a couple of times
since. The QR was tightened as per normal - firm but not too tight, which is what I've always done.
The rear derailer and the spokes are not damaged or even marked, so it doesn't appear to be the
chain or derailer getting caught in the spokes. There are no obvious rub marks from the tyre visible
on either of the chainstays or the tyre itself.

The bike is a SCOTT AFD PRO (http://www.scottusa.com/proddetail.jsp?UID=3758) and has only done
1300kms or so. The QR is a Ritchey. Do some frame materials, QR's or dropout designs require more
force on the QR?

As the bike is relatively new (3 months), is this the sort of thing that you would expect to get
fixed under warranty? The frame is manufactured from 7 series Aluminium - can this be repaired?
There is a definite kink in the chainstay.

Needless to say I am completely shattered. This bike was a bit of an extravagance for a recreational
rider, and I shudder to think that I've now got to replace the frame.

Thanks Jason

 

"Jason Hodges" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yesterday I had the rear wheel come out of the dropouts while out of the seat climbing on my new
> road bike. Luckily the left foot got out of the pedal and on to the road to do a bit of hopping,
> stopping me from going
over
> the bars. However the drive side (right) chainstay ended up fairly badly bent - dropouts are now
> 151mm apart and the crank arm touches the
chainstay.
>
> Has anyone had anything like this happen? Any idea how?
>
> I had the wheels off about 100kms before and had ridden this short but
sharp
> hill a couple of times since. The QR was tightened as per normal - firm
but
> not too tight, which is what I've always done. The rear derailer and the spokes are not damaged or
> even marked, so it doesn't appear to be the
chain
> or derailer getting caught in the spokes. There are no obvious rub marks from the tyre visible on
> either of the chainstays or the tyre itself.
>
> The bike is a SCOTT AFD PRO (http://www.scottusa.com/proddetail.jsp?UID=3758) and has only done
1300kms
> or so. The QR is a Ritchey. Do some frame materials, QR's or dropout
designs
> require more force on the QR?
>
> As the bike is relatively new (3 months), is this the sort of thing that
you
> would expect to get fixed under warranty? The frame is manufactured from 7 series Aluminium - can
> this be repaired? There is a definite kink in the chainstay.
>
> Needless to say I am completely shattered. This bike was a bit of an extravagance for a
> recreational rider, and I shudder to think that I've
now
> got to replace the frame.
>
> Thanks Jason
>
Big hint: warranties are for manufacturing defects, not accidents. Probably not going to get it
warrantied unless your LBS is going to pull really hard for you. Even then, I'd guess that you're
stuck paying for a new frame/fork.

If you're a good customer of the shop's they MAY give you a discount on a new frame/fork.

Anyone else?

Mike

 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:08:32 +0000, Mike S. wrote:

> Big hint: warranties are for manufacturing defects, not accidents. Probably not going to get it
> warrantied unless your LBS is going to pull really hard for you. Even then, I'd guess that you're
> stuck paying for a new frame/fork.
>
> If you're a good customer of the shop's they MAY give you a discount on a new frame/fork.
>
> Anyone else?

Well, I did get a derailleur dragon which ripped out the deralleur, bent the frame, and trashed the
rear wheel - about the third time out. Caloi waranteed the frame - they stated that they had a run
of frames where the derailleur threads were oversized so they covered mine.

I still bought a rear wheel and derailleur.

-Dondo

 

> > Yesterday I had the rear wheel come out of the dropouts while out of the seat climbing on my new
> > road bike. Luckily the left foot got out of the pedal and on to the road to do a bit of hopping,
> > stopping me from going
> over
> > the bars. However the drive side (right) chainstay ended up fairly badly bent - dropouts are now
> > 151mm apart and the crank arm touches the
> chainstay.

> Big hint: warranties are for manufacturing defects, not accidents. Probably not going to get it
> warrantied unless your LBS is going to pull really hard for you. Even then, I'd guess that you're
> stuck paying for a new frame/fork.

I can't imagine how the rear wheel could have come out with vertical dropouts under any
circumstances. I suppose it's possible the QR caught on something and loosened, but one would think
that the rider would notice that before mashing up a hill, no? I would be inclined to think that
either the QR was faulty and snapped (unlikely... they talked about this a lot in the disc brake
thread...) or that perhaps the frame was out of alignment somehow. If the problem was indeed poor
frame alignment, then it should be covered under waranty, right? What else coudl it have been? Matt

 

If I don't reef on my rear QR on my Lemond, the same thing happens. I have to tighten it far more
than for any of my other bikes including my MTB. Under load in the granny gear on a real stiff hill,
it does jump out somehow. Due the ugly nature of this phenomenon, I've opted to tighten the h**l out
of it rather than test for root cause. "Matt J" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > > Yesterday I had the rear wheel come out of the dropouts while out of
the
> > > seat climbing on my new road bike. Luckily the left foot got out of
the
> > > pedal and on to the road to do a bit of hopping, stopping me from
going
> > over
> > > the bars. However the drive side (right) chainstay ended up fairly
badly
> > > bent - dropouts are now 151mm apart and the crank arm touches the
> > chainstay.
>
> > Big hint: warranties are for manufacturing defects, not accidents.
Probably
> > not going to get it warrantied unless your LBS is going to pull really
hard
> > for you. Even then, I'd guess that you're stuck paying for a new frame/fork.
>
> I can't imagine how the rear wheel could have come out with vertical dropouts under any
> circumstances. I suppose it's possible the QR caught on something and loosened, but one would
> think that the rider would notice that before mashing up a hill, no? I would be inclined to think
> that either the QR was faulty and snapped (unlikely... they talked about this a lot in the disc
> brake thread...) or that perhaps the frame was out of alignment somehow. If the problem was indeed
> poor frame alignment, then it should be covered under waranty, right? What else coudl it have
> been? Matt

 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:08:32 +0000, Mike S. wrote:

> Big hint: warranties are for manufacturing defects, not accidents. Probably not going to get it
> warrantied unless your LBS is going to pull really hard for you. Even then, I'd guess that you're
> stuck paying for a new frame/fork.

It doesn't sound like an accident. Seems a lot like manufacturing defect to me, from the story.
Getting the manufacturer to see that may be dicey.

BTW, why repalce the fork?

From the description, something seems to have given way, either at the dropout or the bottom
bracket. Take pictures of it, then talk to the dealer.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all _`\(,_ | mysteries, and all
knowledge; and though I have all faith, so (_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not
charity, I am nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]

 

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:26:47 -0400, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:08:32 +0000, Mike S. wrote:
>
>> Big hint: warranties are for manufacturing defects, not accidents. Probably not going to get it
>> warrantied unless your LBS is going to pull really hard for you. Even then, I'd guess that you're
>> stuck paying for a new frame/fork.
>
>It doesn't sound like an accident. Seems a lot like manufacturing defect to me, from the story.
>Getting the manufacturer to see that may be dicey.
>
>BTW, why repalce the fork?
>
>From the description, something seems to have given way, either at the dropout or the bottom
>bracket. Take pictures of it, then talk to the dealer.

I would not be very surprised to look on the inside of the drive side drop out and see a large
gouge in the metal where the axle pulled out... without seeing the bike it is hard to say what
caused what...

BUT!!! If I remember the original post correctly the rider did not crash... the derailleur did not
go into the spokes... the wheel is okay... which would lead me to think it possible that the CAUSE
of the accident is the stay folding ... I don't know anything about his riding style but if he was
out of the saddle mashing up a hill it could have happened that way...

..and if so it would be a warranty issue. (With the company thinking they were lucky to avoid court)

 

Can't say this is what happened in your case, but if the rear axle is a hair too long the QR bottoms
out on the end of the axle and will not clamp the dropout tightly enough. The same can result if the
axle is not properly centered or if the dropouts on your bike are thin.


Mike Yankee

(Address is munged to thwart spammers. To reply, delete everything after "com".)

 

Jason Hodges at [email protected] wrote on 4/23/03 4:22 AM:

> Yesterday I had the rear wheel come out of the dropouts while out of the seat climbing on my new
> road bike. Luckily the left foot got out of the pedal and on to the road to do a bit of hopping,
> stopping me from going over the bars. However the drive side (right) chainstay ended up fairly
> badly bent - dropouts are now 151mm apart and the crank arm touches the chainstay.
<snipped)
> The bike is a SCOTT AFD PRO (http://www.scottusa.com/proddetail.jsp?UID=3758) and has only done
> 1300kms or so. The QR is a Ritchey. Do some frame materials, QR's or dropout designs require more
> force on the QR?

Get a new quick release from someone other than Ritchey - I've had the Ritchey QR pull out under
similar circumstances - brand new frame, a little too much smooth paint on the dropouts. Hate to say
it, but those have not been good to me. They go from too loose to too tight, too quickly. Never had
a problem with Salsa or standard Shimanos.

Don't know what to say as far as getting the frame replaced. Your shop will have to really go to bat
for you with the manufacturer. Here's where all that good karma towards LBS's pays off... ;^)

-- Jim

 

Jim Edgar <[email protected]> wrote in news:BACD5D41.3F3BB%[email protected]:

> Jason Hodges at [email protected] wrote on 4/23/03 4:22 AM:
>
>> Yesterday I had the rear wheel come out of the dropouts while out of the seat climbing on my new
>> road bike. Luckily the left foot got out of the pedal and on to the road to do a bit of hopping,
>> stopping me from going over the bars. However the drive side (right) chainstay ended up fairly
>> badly bent - dropouts are now 151mm apart and the crank arm touches the chainstay.
> <snipped)
>> The bike is a SCOTT AFD PRO (http://www.scottusa.com/proddetail.jsp?UID=3758) and has only done
>> 1300kms or so. The QR is a Ritchey. Do some frame materials, QR's or dropout designs require more
>> force on the QR?
>
> Get a new quick release from someone other than Ritchey - I've had the Ritchey QR pull out under
> similar circumstances - brand new frame, a little too much smooth paint on the dropouts. Hate to
> say it, but those have not been good to me. They go from too loose to too tight, too quickly.
> Never had a problem with Salsa or standard Shimanos.
>
> Don't know what to say as far as getting the frame replaced. Your shop will have to really go to
> bat for you with the manufacturer. Here's where all that good karma towards LBS's pays off... ;^)
>
If this is what happended, and if everything is stock on the bike including the QRs (and they are
likely Ritchey on their wheels), then he should have a good case for frame replacement.

 

"Mike Latondresse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jim Edgar <[email protected]> wrote in news:BACD5D41.3F3BB%[email protected]:
>
> > Jason Hodges at [email protected] wrote on 4/23/03 4:22 AM:
> >
> >> Yesterday I had the rear wheel come out of the dropouts while out of the seat climbing on my
> >> new road bike. Luckily the left foot got out of the pedal and on to the road to do a bit of
> >> hopping, stopping me from going over the bars. However the drive side (right) chainstay ended
> >> up fairly badly bent - dropouts are now 151mm apart and the crank arm touches the chainstay.
> > <snipped)
> >> The bike is a SCOTT AFD PRO (http://www.scottusa.com/proddetail.jsp?UID=3758) and has only done
> >> 1300kms or so. The QR is a Ritchey. Do some frame materials, QR's or dropout designs require
> >> more force on the QR?
> >
> > Get a new quick release from someone other than Ritchey - I've had the Ritchey QR pull out under
> > similar circumstances - brand new frame, a little too much smooth paint on the dropouts. Hate to
> > say it, but those have not been good to me. They go from too loose to too tight, too quickly.
> > Never had a problem with Salsa or standard Shimanos.
> >
> > Don't know what to say as far as getting the frame replaced. Your shop will have to really go
> > to bat for you with the manufacturer. Here's where all that good karma towards LBS's pays
> > off... ;^)
> >
> If this is what happended, and if everything is stock on the bike including the QRs (and they are
> likely Ritchey on their wheels), then he should have a good case for frame replacement.
>
From what I've read here, if it were me on the shop's end of this, I'd hesitate to go the warranty
route. Sounds too much like "user error" to be a warranty issue. Since there's no breakage, no
cracking, etc. it doesn't sound like a manufacturer's defect.

But by the same token, if the customer was a good one, I'd work with him to determine exactly what
happened, and see what I could do about making him happy. Sometimes if the customer was good enough,
I'd eat the cost of making him happy. A happy customer spends more money in my shop than an unhappy
one... and so do his/her friends... Is it really worth losing the lifetime purchases of a customer
for $400-600?

Mike

 

Thanks for the feedback and info.

I checked the condition of the QR this afternoon. The knurled areas show significant wear, with each
'peak' topped by a broad flat section. My other bike has Ritchey QR's also, and these are much less
worn even having done about 5 times the miles. These, like all my QR's, are secured to pretty much
the same pressure. After all, I have never had a problem before.

I reckon the worn QR surface has contributed to the incident. What degree of wear on a QR
is typical?

Thanks Jason

"Jason Hodges" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yesterday I had the rear wheel come out of the dropouts while out of the seat climbing on my new
> road bike. Luckily the left foot got out of the pedal and on to the road to do a bit of hopping,
> stopping me from going
over
> the bars. However the drive side (right) chainstay ended up fairly badly bent - dropouts are now
> 151mm apart and the crank arm touches the
chainstay.
>
> Has anyone had anything like this happen? Any idea how?
>
> I had the wheels off about 100kms before and had ridden this short but
sharp
> hill a couple of times since. The QR was tightened as per normal - firm
but
> not too tight, which is what I've always done. The rear derailer and the spokes are not damaged or
> even marked, so it doesn't appear to be the
chain
> or derailer getting caught in the spokes. There are no obvious rub marks from the tyre visible on
> either of the chainstays or the tyre itself.
>
> The bike is a SCOTT AFD PRO (http://www.scottusa.com/proddetail.jsp?UID=3758) and has only done
1300kms
> or so. The QR is a Ritchey. Do some frame materials, QR's or dropout
designs
> require more force on the QR?
>
> As the bike is relatively new (3 months), is this the sort of thing that
you
> would expect to get fixed under warranty? The frame is manufactured from 7 series Aluminium - can
> this be repaired? There is a definite kink in the chainstay.
>
> Needless to say I am completely shattered. This bike was a bit of an extravagance for a
> recreational rider, and I shudder to think that I've
now
> got to replace the frame.
>
> Thanks Jason