Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by D T W .../\\..., Feb 28, 2003.

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  1. Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?

    Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites that some say yes and
    some say no?

    What's your call?

    --
    DTW .../\.../\.../\...
     
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  2. Slacker

    Slacker Guest

    "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
    >
    >
    > Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites that some say yes and
    > some say no?
    >
    > What's your call?
    >
    > --
    > DTW .../\.../\.../\...

    If I understand the question correctly:

    "Wheels with crossed-spoke patterns can be built with the left and right sides identical to one
    another or as mirror image opposites." "....difference between mirror image and identical spoking is
    insignificant..."

    The Bicycle Wheel, 3rd ed., Jodst Brandt, pg.68

    --
    Slacker
     
  3. Slacker wrote:
    > "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
    >>
    >>
    >>Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites that some say yes and
    >>some say no?
    >>
    >>What's your call?
    >>
    >>--
    >>DTW .../\.../\.../\...
    >
    >
    >
    > If I understand the question correctly:
    >
    > "Wheels with crossed-spoke patterns can be built with the left and right sides identical to one
    > another or as mirror image opposites." "....difference between mirror image and identical spoking
    > is insignificant..."
    >
    > The Bicycle Wheel, 3rd ed., Jodst Brandt, pg.68
    >
    > --
    > Slacker
    >
    >
    one of the worst mistakes you can do is taking brandt for an authority on anything! he needs to
    build/maintain his rep so he gets jobs testifing in courts as an expert.

    however in the case of a rim braked front wheel he's right. for a disk-braked front and a rear wheel
    i put the trailing spokes head
    in. this has the effect of increasing the dish under load (front brake, rear power) but on the
    rear it also endangers the driveing spokes if you toss a chain into them. i never liked an
    asymetrical spokeing head in on one side head out on the other (no real reason,i just
    don't do it)
    --
    James Connell on a rear i put the
     
  4. D T W .../\\... wrote:
    > Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
    >
    >
    > Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites that some say yes and
    > some say no?
    >
    > What's your call?

    It doesn't realy matter
     
  5. ClydesdaleMTB says:

    >It doesn't realy matter
    >

    OT: You're up early, John. I have to do the Vermont trip today - what's your excuse?

    ;-)

    Steve
     
  6. James Connell wrote:
    >
    > one of the worst mistakes you can do is taking brandt for an authority on anything! he needs to
    > build/maintain his rep so he gets jobs testifing in courts as an expert.

    Where can I buy your book? I'd like to read it and compare and contrast it to Jobst's book.

    Thanks, Barry
     
  7. To clarify what I first posted: I have a disk brake, rear wheel, both sides laced symmetrically,
    3x pattern. I built it by following Lennard Zinn's art of MTB maintenance. He explains that the
    "pulling" spokes come from the inside of the rear hub flange, spoke heads inward (heads down).
    The pulling spokes are the ones that increase tension, when the hub is twisted clockwise, by
    pedaling forces.

    Sheldon Brown says: Derailleur rear wheels should have their "trailing" spokes running up along the
    inside of the flange. (heads up). Trailing spokes become tighter when the rider pedals.

    Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct". thanks

    DTW .../\.../\.../\...
     
  8. "ClydesdaleMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > D T W .../\\... wrote:
    > > Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
    > >
    > >
    > > Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites
    that
    > > some say yes and some say no?
    > >
    > > What's your call?
    >
    > It doesn't realy matter
    >

    Thanks John, that's what I needed, now I won't be worried about my derailleur ripping out all of
    my spokes.

    Life was easier before wheel building, but it is more fun.
    --
    DTW .../\.../\.../\...
     
  9. Stephen Baker wrote:
    > ClydesdaleMTB says:
    >
    >
    >>It doesn't realy matter
    >>
    >
    >
    > OT: You're up early, John. I have to do the Vermont trip today - what's your excuse?

    Went in to the shop to replace the in-tank pre-pump, main fuel pump, fuel filter, and fuel pressure
    regulator on my wife's 765 (intercooled turbo Volov station wagon, aka "the sleeper") so I can open
    the turbo wastegate up and crank the boost up to about 14 psi.
     
  10. D T W .../\\... wrote:
    > To clarify what I first posted: I have a disk brake, rear wheel, both sides laced symmetrically,
    > 3x pattern. I built it by following Lennard Zinn's art of MTB maintenance. He explains that the
    > "pulling" spokes come from the inside of the rear hub flange, spoke heads inward (heads down).
    > The pulling spokes are the ones that increase tension, when the hub is twisted clockwise, by
    > pedaling forces.
    >
    > Sheldon Brown says: Derailleur rear wheels should have their "trailing" spokes running up along
    > the inside of the flange. (heads up). Trailing spokes become tighter when the rider pedals.
    >
    > Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct".

    "yes"

    Either they are "pulling" under acceleration or under braking.
     
  11. D T W .../\\... wrote:
    > now I won't be worried about my derailleur ripping out all of my spokes.

    Just half of them ;-)

    > Life was easier before wheel building, but it is more fun.

    Come on over and share a (22 oz) bottle of Jack Chapman's Trans-Am Ale when you are done. (Jack
    bottled it two days before he left on his Portland WA to Portland ME bike trip 2 summers ago).

    It's really coming in to it's prime right now, very effevescent like a tripple Belgian, and
    _easily_ 9% to 10%
     
  12. "ClydesdaleMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > D T W .../\\... wrote:
    > > now I won't be worried about my derailleur ripping out all of my
    spokes.
    >
    > Just half of them ;-)
    >
    >
    >
    > > Life was easier before wheel building, but it is more fun.
    >
    > Come on over and share a (22 oz) bottle of Jack Chapman's Trans-Am Ale when you are done. (Jack
    > bottled it two days before he left on his Portland WA to Portland ME bike trip 2 summers ago).
    >
    > It's really coming in to it's prime right now, very effevescent like a tripple Belgian, and
    > _easily_ 9% to 10%
    >

    Save some for Bear Brook. I'm tryin' to get there.
    --
    DTW .../\.../\.../\...
     
  13. snippppp

    Forgot to mention that I just got back from doing a circumnavigation of Lake Quannopowitt down here
    in Wakefield, Mass. It's 44deg F so the ice had a soft top in the sunny /snowy areas. Stayed close
    to shore most of the way around, about 4 miles I'd guess, just a n'ice warmup.

    DTW
     
  14. "D T W .../\\..." wrote:
    >
    >
    > Save some for Bear Brook. I'm tryin' to get there.
    > --
    > DTW .../\.../\.../\...

    I've got MY reservation! Site #13.

    Barry
     
  15. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    ClydesdaleMTB <[email protected]> wrote:

    >D T W .../\\... wrote:

    >> Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct".
    >
    >"yes"
    >
    >Either they are "pulling" under acceleration or under braking.

    Yep - I've seen lots of passionate debate on the subject, but in the end it's not important enough
    to worry about. There seem to be an almost exactly equal number of reasons to do either one, FWIW.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  16. Michael Dart

    Michael Dart Guest

    "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
    >
    >
    Hmmm...da da.. da da.. da da da da...da da....

    Rear Wheel, Trailing Spokes, Heads Up or Heads Down! Tell me watcha gonna do now?! Rear Wheel,
    Trailing Spokes, Heads Up or Heads Down! Keep rollin' rollin' rollin' Keep rollin' rollin'
    rollin' ....

    Sorry, just had a Limp Bizkit moment.

    Mike
     
  17. "Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > ClydesdaleMTB <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >D T W .../\\... wrote:
    >
    > >> Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct".
    > >
    > >"yes"
    > >
    > >Either they are "pulling" under acceleration or under braking.
    >
    > Yep - I've seen lots of passionate debate on the subject, but in the end it's not important enough
    > to worry about. There seem to be an almost exactly equal number of reasons to do either one, FWIW.
    >

    All other things being equal, do the opposite of what Jobst recommends simply because he is such a
    vainglorious barbarian.

    :)

    C.
     
  18. B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
    > James Connell wrote:
    >
    >>one of the worst mistakes you can do is taking brandt for an authority on anything! he needs to
    >>build/maintain his rep so he gets jobs testifing in courts as an expert.
    >
    >
    > Where can I buy your book? I'd like to read it and compare and contrast it to Jobst's book.
    >
    > Thanks, Barry

    I've never written a book, i don't intend to write a book. being the author of a book doesn't make
    you an expert on anything - it makes the author of a book. karl marx wrote a book, genarations
    followed his 'expert' advice. hitler wrote a book.
     
  19. L Hays

    L Hays Guest

    "James Connell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
    > > James Connell wrote:
    > >
    > >>one of the worst mistakes you can do is taking brandt for an authority on anything! he needs to
    > >>build/maintain his rep so he gets jobs testifing in courts as an expert.
    > >
    > >
    > > Where can I buy your book? I'd like to read it and compare and contrast it to Jobst's book.
    > >
    > > Thanks, Barry
    >
    > I've never written a book, i don't intend to write a book. being the author of a book doesn't make
    > you an expert on anything - it makes the author of a book. karl marx wrote a book, genarations
    > followed his 'expert' advice. hitler wrote a book.
    >
    James,

    Lighten up man, I don't think Mr. Brandt will be building a master race of wheel builders any
    time soon.

    ;^)

    Lance
     
  20. A shy person wrote:

    > To clarify what I first posted: I have a disk brake, rear wheel, both sides laced symmetrically,
    > 3x pattern. I built it by following Lennard Zinn's art of MTB maintenance. He explains that the
    > "pulling" spokes come from the inside of the rear hub flange, spoke heads inward (heads down).
    > The pulling spokes are the ones that increase tension, when the hub is twisted clockwise, by
    > pedaling forces.
    >
    > Sheldon Brown says: Derailleur rear wheels should have their "trailing" spokes running up along
    > the inside of the flange. (heads up). Trailing spokes become tighter when the rider pedals.

    "Heads up" and "heads down" are meaniningless in discussing wheels. Wheels are round--there is no
    "up" nor "down."

    Spokes are instaled either "heads IN" or "heads OUT"

    "Heads in" means the head is on the inside of the flange, the spoke runs along the outside.

    "Heads out" means the thread is on the outside of the flange, and the spoke runs along the inside.

    For the right rear spokes on derailer equipped bikes it is best to have the trailing (a.k.a.
    "pulling") spokes installed heads out. Most good wheelbuilders observe this, but there is a minority
    of good wheelbuilders who do it the opposite way. It really doesn't much matter, even on the right
    rear spokes.

    On the spokes that are not right rear, it doesn't matter at all.

    It is generally easier to build wheels if the spokes on each flange are mirror images of one
    another. Thus, I generally build rear wheels with all of the trailing spokes heads out.

    There's more detail about this in my Wheelbuilding article, http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

    > Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct".

    Yep.

    Sheldon "It Doesn't Much Matter" Brown +---------------------------------------------------+
    | The important thing is not to stop questioning. | Curiosity has its own reason for existing. |
    | --Albert Einstein |
    +---------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
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