Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?



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D

D T W .../\\...

Guest
Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?

Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites that some say yes and
some say no?

What's your call?

--
DTW .../\.../\.../\...
 
S

Slacker

Guest
"D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
>
>
> Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites that some say yes and
> some say no?
>
> What's your call?
>
> --
> DTW .../\.../\.../\...

If I understand the question correctly:

"Wheels with crossed-spoke patterns can be built with the left and right sides identical to one
another or as mirror image opposites." "....difference between mirror image and identical spoking is
insignificant..."

The Bicycle Wheel, 3rd ed., Jodst Brandt, pg.68

--
Slacker
 
J

James Connell

Guest
Slacker wrote:
> "D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
>>
>>
>>Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites that some say yes and
>>some say no?
>>
>>What's your call?
>>
>>--
>>DTW .../\.../\.../\...
>
>
>
> If I understand the question correctly:
>
> "Wheels with crossed-spoke patterns can be built with the left and right sides identical to one
> another or as mirror image opposites." "....difference between mirror image and identical spoking
> is insignificant..."
>
> The Bicycle Wheel, 3rd ed., Jodst Brandt, pg.68
>
> --
> Slacker
>
>
one of the worst mistakes you can do is taking brandt for an authority on anything! he needs to
build/maintain his rep so he gets jobs testifing in courts as an expert.

however in the case of a rim braked front wheel he's right. for a disk-braked front and a rear wheel
i put the trailing spokes head
in. this has the effect of increasing the dish under load (front brake, rear power) but on the
rear it also endangers the driveing spokes if you toss a chain into them. i never liked an
asymetrical spokeing head in on one side head out on the other (no real reason,i just
don't do it)
--
James Connell on a rear i put the
 
C

Clydesdalemtb

Guest
D T W .../\\... wrote:
> Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
>
>
> Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites that some say yes and
> some say no?
>
> What's your call?

It doesn't realy matter
 
S

Stephen Baker

Guest
ClydesdaleMTB says:

>It doesn't realy matter
>

OT: You're up early, John. I have to do the Vermont trip today - what's your excuse?

;-)

Steve
 
B

B A R R Y B U R

Guest
James Connell wrote:
>
> one of the worst mistakes you can do is taking brandt for an authority on anything! he needs to
> build/maintain his rep so he gets jobs testifing in courts as an expert.

Where can I buy your book? I'd like to read it and compare and contrast it to Jobst's book.

Thanks, Barry
 
D

D T W .../\\...

Guest
To clarify what I first posted: I have a disk brake, rear wheel, both sides laced symmetrically,
3x pattern. I built it by following Lennard Zinn's art of MTB maintenance. He explains that the
"pulling" spokes come from the inside of the rear hub flange, spoke heads inward (heads down).
The pulling spokes are the ones that increase tension, when the hub is twisted clockwise, by
pedaling forces.

Sheldon Brown says: Derailleur rear wheels should have their "trailing" spokes running up along the
inside of the flange. (heads up). Trailing spokes become tighter when the rider pedals.

Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct". thanks

DTW .../\.../\.../\...
 
D

D T W .../\\...

Guest
"ClydesdaleMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> D T W .../\\... wrote:
> > Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
> >
> >
> > Am I confused. I think I've read in instruction manuals and websites
that
> > some say yes and some say no?
> >
> > What's your call?
>
> It doesn't realy matter
>

Thanks John, that's what I needed, now I won't be worried about my derailleur ripping out all of
my spokes.

Life was easier before wheel building, but it is more fun.
--
DTW .../\.../\.../\...
 
C

Clydesdalemtb

Guest
Stephen Baker wrote:
> ClydesdaleMTB says:
>
>
>>It doesn't realy matter
>>
>
>
> OT: You're up early, John. I have to do the Vermont trip today - what's your excuse?

Went in to the shop to replace the in-tank pre-pump, main fuel pump, fuel filter, and fuel pressure
regulator on my wife's 765 (intercooled turbo Volov station wagon, aka "the sleeper") so I can open
the turbo wastegate up and crank the boost up to about 14 psi.
 
C

Clydesdalemtb

Guest
D T W .../\\... wrote:
> To clarify what I first posted: I have a disk brake, rear wheel, both sides laced symmetrically,
> 3x pattern. I built it by following Lennard Zinn's art of MTB maintenance. He explains that the
> "pulling" spokes come from the inside of the rear hub flange, spoke heads inward (heads down).
> The pulling spokes are the ones that increase tension, when the hub is twisted clockwise, by
> pedaling forces.
>
> Sheldon Brown says: Derailleur rear wheels should have their "trailing" spokes running up along
> the inside of the flange. (heads up). Trailing spokes become tighter when the rider pedals.
>
> Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct".

"yes"

Either they are "pulling" under acceleration or under braking.
 
C

Clydesdalemtb

Guest
D T W .../\\... wrote:
> now I won't be worried about my derailleur ripping out all of my spokes.

Just half of them ;-)

> Life was easier before wheel building, but it is more fun.

Come on over and share a (22 oz) bottle of Jack Chapman's Trans-Am Ale when you are done. (Jack
bottled it two days before he left on his Portland WA to Portland ME bike trip 2 summers ago).

It's really coming in to it's prime right now, very effevescent like a tripple Belgian, and
_easily_ 9% to 10%
 
D

D T W .../\\...

Guest
"ClydesdaleMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> D T W .../\\... wrote:
> > now I won't be worried about my derailleur ripping out all of my
spokes.
>
> Just half of them ;-)
>
>
>
> > Life was easier before wheel building, but it is more fun.
>
> Come on over and share a (22 oz) bottle of Jack Chapman's Trans-Am Ale when you are done. (Jack
> bottled it two days before he left on his Portland WA to Portland ME bike trip 2 summers ago).
>
> It's really coming in to it's prime right now, very effevescent like a tripple Belgian, and
> _easily_ 9% to 10%
>

Save some for Bear Brook. I'm tryin' to get there.
--
DTW .../\.../\.../\...
 
D

D T W .../\\...

Guest
snippppp

Forgot to mention that I just got back from doing a circumnavigation of Lake Quannopowitt down here
in Wakefield, Mass. It's 44deg F so the ice had a soft top in the sunny /snowy areas. Stayed close
to shore most of the way around, about 4 miles I'd guess, just a n'ice warmup.

DTW
 
B

B A R R Y B U R

Guest
"D T W .../\\..." wrote:
>
>
> Save some for Bear Brook. I'm tryin' to get there.
> --
> DTW .../\.../\.../\...

I've got MY reservation! Site #13.

Barry
 
M

Mark Hickey

Guest
ClydesdaleMTB <[email protected]> wrote:

>D T W .../\\... wrote:

>> Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct".
>
>"yes"
>
>Either they are "pulling" under acceleration or under braking.

Yep - I've seen lots of passionate debate on the subject, but in the end it's not important enough
to worry about. There seem to be an almost exactly equal number of reasons to do either one, FWIW.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
M

Michael Dart

Guest
"D T W .../\..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Rear Wheel - Trailing Spokes - Heads Up or Down ?
>
>
Hmmm...da da.. da da.. da da da da...da da....

Rear Wheel, Trailing Spokes, Heads Up or Heads Down! Tell me watcha gonna do now?! Rear Wheel,
Trailing Spokes, Heads Up or Heads Down! Keep rollin' rollin' rollin' Keep rollin' rollin'
rollin' ....

Sorry, just had a Limp Bizkit moment.

Mike
 
C

Chris Holliday

Guest
"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ClydesdaleMTB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >D T W .../\\... wrote:
>
> >> Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct".
> >
> >"yes"
> >
> >Either they are "pulling" under acceleration or under braking.
>
> Yep - I've seen lots of passionate debate on the subject, but in the end it's not important enough
> to worry about. There seem to be an almost exactly equal number of reasons to do either one, FWIW.
>

All other things being equal, do the opposite of what Jobst recommends simply because he is such a
vainglorious barbarian.

:)

C.
 
J

James Connell

Guest
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
> James Connell wrote:
>
>>one of the worst mistakes you can do is taking brandt for an authority on anything! he needs to
>>build/maintain his rep so he gets jobs testifing in courts as an expert.
>
>
> Where can I buy your book? I'd like to read it and compare and contrast it to Jobst's book.
>
> Thanks, Barry

I've never written a book, i don't intend to write a book. being the author of a book doesn't make
you an expert on anything - it makes the author of a book. karl marx wrote a book, genarations
followed his 'expert' advice. hitler wrote a book.
 
L

L Hays

Guest
"James Connell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
> > James Connell wrote:
> >
> >>one of the worst mistakes you can do is taking brandt for an authority on anything! he needs to
> >>build/maintain his rep so he gets jobs testifing in courts as an expert.
> >
> >
> > Where can I buy your book? I'd like to read it and compare and contrast it to Jobst's book.
> >
> > Thanks, Barry
>
> I've never written a book, i don't intend to write a book. being the author of a book doesn't make
> you an expert on anything - it makes the author of a book. karl marx wrote a book, genarations
> followed his 'expert' advice. hitler wrote a book.
>
James,

Lighten up man, I don't think Mr. Brandt will be building a master race of wheel builders any
time soon.

;^)

Lance
 
S

Sheldon Brown

Guest
A shy person wrote:

> To clarify what I first posted: I have a disk brake, rear wheel, both sides laced symmetrically,
> 3x pattern. I built it by following Lennard Zinn's art of MTB maintenance. He explains that the
> "pulling" spokes come from the inside of the rear hub flange, spoke heads inward (heads down).
> The pulling spokes are the ones that increase tension, when the hub is twisted clockwise, by
> pedaling forces.
>
> Sheldon Brown says: Derailleur rear wheels should have their "trailing" spokes running up along
> the inside of the flange. (heads up). Trailing spokes become tighter when the rider pedals.

"Heads up" and "heads down" are meaniningless in discussing wheels. Wheels are round--there is no
"up" nor "down."

Spokes are instaled either "heads IN" or "heads OUT"

"Heads in" means the head is on the inside of the flange, the spoke runs along the outside.

"Heads out" means the thread is on the outside of the flange, and the spoke runs along the inside.

For the right rear spokes on derailer equipped bikes it is best to have the trailing (a.k.a.
"pulling") spokes installed heads out. Most good wheelbuilders observe this, but there is a minority
of good wheelbuilders who do it the opposite way. It really doesn't much matter, even on the right
rear spokes.

On the spokes that are not right rear, it doesn't matter at all.

It is generally easier to build wheels if the spokes on each flange are mirror images of one
another. Thus, I generally build rear wheels with all of the trailing spokes heads out.

There's more detail about this in my Wheelbuilding article, http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

> Do I understand what I've read and that either way is "correct".

Yep.

Sheldon "It Doesn't Much Matter" Brown +---------------------------------------------------+
| The important thing is not to stop questioning. | Curiosity has its own reason for existing. |
| --Albert Einstein |
+---------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
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