Reasons to suspect Armstrong...

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Skuyte Hamrell, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    suspect him:

    1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.
    3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.
    5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    be just as big cheaters as anyone.
    6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.
    7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    after Beloki's accident last year.

    But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.
     
    Tags:


  2. Ronald

    Ronald Guest

    > I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    > suspect him:
    >
    > 1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    > 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.
    > 3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    > 4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.
    > 5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    > be just as big cheaters as anyone.
    > 6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.
    > 7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    > like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    > after Beloki's accident last year.
    >
    > But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    > talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    > doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.


    8) Answering "I was never caught" instead of a simple "No" when asked
    about using doping.



    "Skuyte Hamrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    > suspect him:
    >
    > 1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    > 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.
    > 3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    > 4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.
    > 5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    > be just as big cheaters as anyone.
    > 6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.
    > 7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    > like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    > after Beloki's accident last year.
    >
    > But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    > talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    > doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.
     
  3. gym gravity

    gym gravity Guest

    Skuyte Hamrell wrote:

    > or cutting across a field after Beloki's accident last year.


    ??? avioding a crash at all possible cost is ungentlemanly ???

    did you see the footage or did you read about it in an online report?
     
  4. Weisse Luft

    Weisse Luft New Member

    Joined:
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    Yes he was caught. Corticoid steroid used TOPICALLY for saddle sore AND PERMITTED by UCI and race officials.

    And Lance HAS used EPO. After his chemo, his Hcrt dropped to 26 and the doctors used it withing FDA approved procedures to rebuild his endurance.
     
  5. Race Bannon

    Race Bannon Guest

    I have heard him so "no". I am not defending or accusing. Just giving facts.

    Race

    "Ronald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > > I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    > > suspect him:
    > >
    > > 1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    > > 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.
    > > 3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    > > 4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.
    > > 5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    > > be just as big cheaters as anyone.
    > > 6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.
    > > 7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    > > like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    > > after Beloki's accident last year.
    > >
    > > But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    > > talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    > > doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.

    >
    > 8) Answering "I was never caught" instead of a simple "No" when asked
    > about using doping.
    >
    >
    >
    > "Skuyte Hamrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    > > suspect him:
    > >
    > > 1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    > > 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.
    > > 3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    > > 4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.
    > > 5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    > > be just as big cheaters as anyone.
    > > 6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.
    > > 7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    > > like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    > > after Beloki's accident last year.
    > >
    > > But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    > > talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    > > doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.

    >
    >
     
  6. Race Bannon

    Race Bannon Guest

    or cutting across a field
    > after Beloki's accident last year.


    What does that have to do with your argument?

    Race

    "Skuyte Hamrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    > suspect him:
    >
    > 1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    > 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.
    > 3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    > 4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.
    > 5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    > be just as big cheaters as anyone.
    > 6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.
    > 7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    > like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    > after Beloki's accident last year.
    >
    > But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    > talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    > doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.
     
  7. Krusty

    Krusty Guest

    On 28 Jul 2004 05:37:22 -0700, [email protected] (Skuyte
    Hamrell) wrote:


    >I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    >suspect him:
    >


    You make generally good points here but:

    >1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    >2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.


    He had a few of them (comparatively) last year.

    >3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    >4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.
    >5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    >be just as big cheaters as anyone.


    Kind of irrelevant, but goes to show that there are cheaters in all
    sports.

    >6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.


    Not a new phenomenon. Just augmented since Alfred E. Newman took
    office.

    >7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    >like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    >after Beloki's accident last year.
    >


    Cutting across the field was just about the only thing he could do and
    still keep up with the field. Ullrich even made a gesture to him
    once he got through the obstacle that seemed to indicate a sentiment
    of "Hurry up, get back on your bike, and keep up with us."


    >But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    >talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    >doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.
     
  8. SMMB

    SMMB Guest

    "Race Bannon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    news:[email protected]
    > I have heard him so "no". I am not defending or accusing. Just giving

    facts.
    >
    > Race
    >

    You got it !! That is a good fact, that he said those words. Beginning to
    balance Brian Lafferty, at last. Now, can't some of you come up with other
    facts ? Not opinions, or interpretations, or adulations. Then we can find
    equilibrium, or get closer.

    Here's a fact to add, or so I believe : Armstrong has never tested positive
    in official testing for a banned substance, unless he had a medical
    authorization to use it. (I'm just covering for myself - I can't be sure
    any longer what has been distorted by variation and repetition.)

    Someone, quick, start a list !
    --
    Sandy
    Paris FR

    *******

    La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
    il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
    -- Einstein, A.
     
  9. K. J. Papai

    K. J. Papai Guest

    [email protected] (Skuyte Hamrell) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    > suspect him:
    >
    > 1) He is so much better than everybody else.


    TRUE -- because no one prepares and studies the course Like Lance.

    > 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.


    Lance has had a couple bad days at the Tour (which would be good days
    for the other 150 racers).
    First was his mild bonk in the mountainj stage 2-3 Tours ago, and then
    last year when he dehydrated himself during the ITT.
    He almost had a really bad day when Heras was crashed in the TTT 2-3
    years ago.

    > 3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    > 4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.


    No more dope-infested than any other sport, so no.

    > 5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    > be just as big cheaters as anyone.
    > 6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.
    > 7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    > like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    > after Beloki's accident last year.


    WHAT?! He avoid Beloki and went the the only direction he could,
    across the field, which was more treacherous than jumping back on the
    road.

    > But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    > talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    > doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.


    Lance is the real deal and the BEST Tour de France racer of all time.

    He himself has inspired more Americans to ride bikes than anyone.

    -Ken
     
  10. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Skuyte Hamrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    > suspect him:
    >
    > 1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    > 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.


    Yeah, you are right. Not "one bad day" but he has had about a half dozen bad
    days all tolled. Starting back in 2000 when he bonked during the final climb
    one day, then there are numerous ITT losses and several other bad days in
    the mountains when he was able to bluff his way to the finish and keep the
    damage manageable. I guess he fools a lot of fans in to thinking he is
    invincible too. If he can fool his peers, he can fool you too. He does not
    have to be perfect to win, only better than the rest for typically 21 days
    of racing combined per year.

    > 3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    > 4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.


    No, not the best. He is the best at the Tour when there are the most people
    looking.

    > 5) Recent track&field doping scandals have proven that Americans can
    > be just as big cheaters as anyone.


    People are people.

    > 6) Anti-American sentiments the last couple of years.
    > 7) Some surprisingly ungentlemanly behaviour from the gentleman LA,
    > like chasing Simeoni in this year's tour, or cutting across a field
    > after Beloki's accident last year.
    >
    > But, as I said, I think Armstrong is clean. He is just extremely
    > talented, and has an extremely professional attitude to what he is
    > doing. And he is the most dope-tested athlete there is today.



    Yeah well, what was your point again?
     
  11. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "K. J. Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > He himself has inspired more Americans to ride bikes than anyone.
    >
    > -Ken


    Translation: He has inspired Ken Papai to ride his bike and write love
    letters to more than any other man could.

    Ken, what kind of bike do you have again? What is the paint scheme? Did you
    trade up yet to a "Project One" with "Ken + Lance = true love" on the top
    tube?
     
  12. Jiyang Chen

    Jiyang Chen Guest

  13. Jiyang Chen

    Jiyang Chen Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Skuyte Hamrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    > > suspect him:
    > >
    > > 1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    > > 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.

    >
    > Yeah, you are right. Not "one bad day" but he has had about a half

    dozen bad
    > days all tolled. Starting back in 2000 when he bonked during the final

    climb
    > one day, then there are numerous ITT losses


    Numerous? In 6 years, losing to Botero, Millar, and Ullrich is
    numerous?
     
  14. Race Bannon

    Race Bannon Guest

    I have listened very closely to every word regarding an answer presented to
    Livestrong regarding "Doping" , "Drug Use", "EPO".
    IMHO, Livestrong has stated in no arguable terms that He has "never taken
    any pharmecutical that was listed as a ""performance-enhancing-banned
    sustance by the UCI "" which was not directly perscribed to eradicate his
    cancer.

    Race

    "SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Race Bannon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    > news:[email protected]
    > > I have heard him so "no". I am not defending or accusing. Just giving

    > facts.
    > >
    > > Race
    > >

    > You got it !! That is a good fact, that he said those words. Beginning

    to
    > balance Brian Lafferty, at last. Now, can't some of you come up with

    other
    > facts ? Not opinions, or interpretations, or adulations. Then we can

    find
    > equilibrium, or get closer.
    >
    > Here's a fact to add, or so I believe : Armstrong has never tested

    positive
    > in official testing for a banned substance, unless he had a medical
    > authorization to use it. (I'm just covering for myself - I can't be sure
    > any longer what has been distorted by variation and repetition.)
    >
    > Someone, quick, start a list !
    > --
    > Sandy
    > Paris FR
    >
    > *******
    >
    > La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
    > il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
    > -- Einstein, A.
    >
    >
     
  15. SMMB

    SMMB Guest

    "Race Bannon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    news:[email protected]
    > I have listened very closely to every word regarding an answer presented

    to
    > Livestrong regarding "Doping" , "Drug Use", "EPO".
    > IMHO, Livestrong has stated in no arguable terms that He has "never taken
    > any pharmecutical that was listed as a ""performance-enhancing-banned
    > sustance by the UCI "" which was not directly perscribed to eradicate his
    > cancer.
    >
    > Race


    This was fact ?1 - stated below - we are running short, with just two facts,
    so someone better start pitching in ...

    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy
    Paris FR

    PS : "Livestrong" is a yellow rubber band !

    > "SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > "Race Bannon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > > I have heard him so "no". I am not defending or accusing. Just giving

    > > facts.
    > > >
    > > > Race
    > > >

    > > You got it !! That is a good fact, that he said those words. Beginning

    > to
    > > balance Brian Lafferty, at last. Now, can't some of you come up with

    > other
    > > facts ? Not opinions, or interpretations, or adulations. Then we can

    > find
    > > equilibrium, or get closer.
    > >
    > > Here's a fact to add, or so I believe : Armstrong has never tested

    > positive
    > > in official testing for a banned substance, unless he had a medical
    > > authorization to use it. (I'm just covering for myself - I can't be

    sure
    > > any longer what has been distorted by variation and repetition.)
    > >
    > > Someone, quick, start a list !
    > > --
    > > Sandy
    > > Paris FR
    > >
    > > *******
    > >
    > > La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
    > > il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
    > > -- Einstein, A.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
  16. Race Bannon

    Race Bannon Guest

    Exacltly which way are you arguing this point Sandy?

    Race

    "SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Race Bannon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    > news:[email protected]
    > > I have listened very closely to every word regarding an answer presented

    > to
    > > Livestrong regarding "Doping" , "Drug Use", "EPO".
    > > IMHO, Livestrong has stated in no arguable terms that He has "never

    taken
    > > any pharmecutical that was listed as a ""performance-enhancing-banned
    > > sustance by the UCI "" which was not directly perscribed to eradicate

    his
    > > cancer.
    > >
    > > Race

    >
    > This was fact ?1 - stated below - we are running short, with just two

    facts,
    > so someone better start pitching in ...
    >
    > --
    > Bonne route,
    >
    > Sandy
    > Paris FR
    >
    > PS : "Livestrong" is a yellow rubber band !
    >
    > > "SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > > "Race Bannon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    > > > news:[email protected]
    > > > > I have heard him so "no". I am not defending or accusing. Just

    giving
    > > > facts.
    > > > >
    > > > > Race
    > > > >
    > > > You got it !! That is a good fact, that he said those words.

    Beginning
    > > to
    > > > balance Brian Lafferty, at last. Now, can't some of you come up with

    > > other
    > > > facts ? Not opinions, or interpretations, or adulations. Then we can

    > > find
    > > > equilibrium, or get closer.
    > > >
    > > > Here's a fact to add, or so I believe : Armstrong has never tested

    > > positive
    > > > in official testing for a banned substance, unless he had a medical
    > > > authorization to use it. (I'm just covering for myself - I can't be

    > sure
    > > > any longer what has been distorted by variation and repetition.)
    > > >
    > > > Someone, quick, start a list !
    > > > --
    > > > Sandy
    > > > Paris FR
    > > >
    > > > *******
    > > >
    > > > La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
    > > > il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
    > > > -- Einstein, A.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
  17. SMMB

    SMMB Guest

  18. Ken Papai

    Ken Papai Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote .com...
    >
    > "K. J. Papai" <ken.com> wrote in message
    > >
    > > He himself has inspired more Americans to ride bikes than anyone.
    > >
    > > -Ken

    >
    > Translation: He has inspired Ken Papai to ride his bike and write love
    > letters to more than any other man could.
    >
    > Ken, what kind of bike do you have again? What is the paint scheme? Did

    you
    > trade up yet to a "Project One" with "Ken + Lance = true love" on the top
    > tube?


    Are you THAT freaking STUPID Chris?
    You are.

    Were is a picturemof you on or with your bike?
    Mine are easy to find -- I don't hide, like you do.

    -Ken


    >
     
  19. StanSD

    StanSD Guest

    Interesting note. In an interview just before the Tour, LA was asked if
    he'd every used doping products. He responded, "I do not use doping
    products." Anyone see the issue with this response. I don't doubt that
    he's clean now, but an evasive answer like that makes me very skeptical
    about the past.

    Stan


    "Race Bannon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I have listened very closely to every word regarding an answer presented

    to
    > Livestrong regarding "Doping" , "Drug Use", "EPO".
    > IMHO, Livestrong has stated in no arguable terms that He has "never taken
    > any pharmecutical that was listed as a ""performance-enhancing-banned
    > sustance by the UCI "" which was not directly perscribed to eradicate his
    > cancer.
    >
    > Race
    >
    > "SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > "Race Bannon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > > I have heard him so "no". I am not defending or accusing. Just giving

    > > facts.
    > > >
    > > > Race
    > > >

    > > You got it !! That is a good fact, that he said those words. Beginning

    > to
    > > balance Brian Lafferty, at last. Now, can't some of you come up with

    > other
    > > facts ? Not opinions, or interpretations, or adulations. Then we can

    > find
    > > equilibrium, or get closer.
    > >
    > > Here's a fact to add, or so I believe : Armstrong has never tested

    > positive
    > > in official testing for a banned substance, unless he had a medical
    > > authorization to use it. (I'm just covering for myself - I can't be

    sure
    > > any longer what has been distorted by variation and repetition.)
    > >
    > > Someone, quick, start a list !
    > > --
    > > Sandy
    > > Paris FR
    > >
    > > *******
    > >
    > > La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
    > > il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
    > > -- Einstein, A.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
  20. Krusty

    Krusty Guest

    On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:28:30 -0700, "Chris"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Skuyte Hamrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> I believe Lance Armstrong is clean. But I understand why people
    >> suspect him:
    >>
    >> 1) He is so much better than everybody else.
    >> 2) Not one bad day in 6 years of Tour de France racing.

    >
    >Yeah, you are right. Not "one bad day" but he has had about a half dozen bad
    >days all tolled. Starting back in 2000 when he bonked during the final climb
    >one day, then there are numerous ITT losses and several other bad days in
    >the mountains when he was able to bluff his way to the finish and keep the
    >damage manageable. I guess he fools a lot of fans in to thinking he is
    >invincible too. If he can fool his peers, he can fool you too. He does not
    >have to be perfect to win, only better than the rest for typically 21 days
    >of racing combined per year.
    >
    >> 3) Connections to alleged dope doctor Ferrari.
    >> 4) He is the best in cycling, a tradidionally dope-infested sport.

    >
    >No, not the best. He is the best at the Tour when there are the most people
    >looking.


    Cummon....you cannot say for certain that he isn't the best. There
    are too many varieties of bicycle racing to make such a definitive
    statement...unless of course a rider were do show dominance across the
    board. Currently there is no such cyclist.
     
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