Recap (for Orac)

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by tobyjones, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. tobyjones

    tobyjones Guest

    From: "Orac" <[email protected]>
    Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
    Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:32 PM
    Subject: Re: Warning: MHA = acahf hangout

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > > To any new readers or others who may not be aware of
    > > this, to you who are genuinely interested in alt
    > > health, please note: Anything that you may post to mha
    > > is being carefully noted and monitored by your
    > > "friendly" acahf rep.
    >
    > Really? And what is your evidence for this?

    Actually, Orac, it began with a comment by you yourself.
    Some scared weird little guy* was embarking on something
    called a "gall bladder cleanse". ok.... I didn't know much
    about them. He didn't appear to either. Then you made a
    comment to the effect that while it would be unlikely to do
    anything, if it did, it could possibly be harmful.

    So, I passed on the message in a reply to him, saying you
    had said that and that he should check it out further.

    He asked for web links. The first couple that I checked out
    on the web both endorsed your word of caution. Both said
    that people could sometimes end up in hospital, consequent
    to such "cleanses".

    I posted the links, and took some details from one of them
    to underscore the need to approach something like that with
    a certain amount of caution.

    The response from one or two posters was to immediately
    attack the person who had been cited as advising to NOT rush
    into the cleanse.

    No discussion of what was involved in the "cleanse". No
    discussion of what might be good advice for someone trying
    it out. Instead, an attack on one of the authors.

    And that attack was NOT a fact-based appraisal of ...
    anything whatsoever. It arose from unproven allegations,
    falsehoods, misrepresentations, implied suggestions of
    wrongdoing, various slanderous statements, and .... rumour.

    What this meant was that time which could have been spent
    discussing an alt therapy went instead into witch-hunt mode
    after non-existent "facts". The alt health discussion was
    blatantly sabotaged.

    As well, it led to action being taken across the 'Net / real
    life boundary. This is not on. It is not acceptable, and I
    will not be a party to such endeavours, nor will I sit back
    in silence while it is occurring.

    (* - To anth, "Scared Weird Little Guys" is not derogatory,
    it is a friendly term: www.swlg.com.au/bio_2.htm
    www.saxton.com.au/default.asp?sd8=484 )

    --
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    Tags:


  2. Anth

    Anth Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > From: "Orac" <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
    > misc.health.alternative Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004
    > 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Warning: MHA = acahf hangout
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > > > To any new readers or others who may not be aware of
    > > > this, to you who are genuinely interested in alt
    > > > health, please note: Anything that you may post to mha
    > > > is being carefully noted and monitored by your
    > > > "friendly" acahf rep.
    > >
    > > Really? And what is your evidence for this?
    >
    > Actually, Orac, it began with a comment by you yourself.
    > Some scared weird little guy* was embarking on something
    > called a "gall bladder cleanse". ok.... I didn't know much
    > about them. He didn't appear to either. Then you made a
    > comment to the effect that while it would be unlikely to
    > do anything, if it did, it could possibly be harmful.
    >
    > So, I passed on the message in a reply to him, saying you
    > had said that
    and
    > that he should check it out further.
    >
    > He asked for web links. The first couple that I checked
    > out on the web
    both
    > endorsed your word of caution. Both said that people could
    > sometimes end up in hospital, consequent to such
    > "cleanses".
    >
    > I posted the links, and took some details from one of them
    > to underscore the need to approach something like that
    > with a certain amount of caution.
    >
    > The response from one or two posters was to immediately
    > attack the person who had been cited as advising to NOT
    > rush into the cleanse.
    >
    > No discussion of what was involved in the "cleanse". No
    > discussion of
    what
    > might be good advice for someone trying it out. Instead,
    > an attack on one of the authors.
    >
    > And that attack was NOT a fact-based appraisal of ...
    > anything whatsoever. It arose from unproven allegations,
    > falsehoods, misrepresentations,
    implied
    > suggestions of wrongdoing, various slanderous statements,
    > and .... rumour.
    >
    > What this meant was that time which could have been spent
    > discussing an
    alt
    > therapy went instead into witch-hunt mode after non-
    > existent "facts". The alt health discussion was blatantly
    > sabotaged.
    >
    > As well, it led to action being taken across the 'Net /
    > real life
    boundary.
    > This is not on. It is not acceptable, and I will not be a
    > party to such endeavours, nor will I sit back in silence
    > while it is occurring.
    >
    > (* - To anth, "Scared Weird Little Guys" is not
    > derogatory, it is a friendly term:
    > www.swlg.com.au/bio_2.htm
    > www.saxton.com.au/default.asp?sd8=484 )

    I'm not scared in the slightest - shit happens all the time.
    (I also remind the cynics of the efforts of Dr Victor
    Herbert with proving folate deficiency) The reason why I am
    doing a cleanse is basically for the hell of it and to
    settle a few points. (Up to Day 5 drinking apple juice) Anth

    > --
    > -------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
    > Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
     
  3. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > From: "Orac" <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
    > misc.health.alternative Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004
    > 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Warning: MHA = acahf hangout
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > > > To any new readers or others who may not be aware of
    > > > this, to you who are genuinely interested in alt
    > > > health, please note: Anything that you may post to mha
    > > > is being carefully noted and monitored by your
    > > > "friendly" acahf rep.
    > >
    > > Really? And what is your evidence for this?
    >
    > Actually, Orac, it began with a comment by you yourself.

    I'm not a member of the ACAHF.

    >Some scared weird little guy* was embarking on something
    >called a "gall bladder cleanse". ok.... I didn't know much
    >about them. He didn't appear to either. Then you made a
    >comment to the effect that while it would be unlikely to do
    >anything, if it did, it could possibly be harmful.

    Actually, I said that it didn't do anything, but if it
    actually could dislodge stones without dissolving them
    completely, that could potentially be harmful.

    I also pointed out to others that most people who use these
    flushes have no objective evidence that they even have
    stones, nor do they have any evidence (before and after
    ultrasound studies, for instance) that they do anything.

    > So, I passed on the message in a reply to him, saying you
    > had said that and that he should check it out further.
    >
    > He asked for web links. The first couple that I checked
    > out on the web both endorsed your word of caution. Both
    > said that people could sometimes end up in hospital,
    > consequent to such "cleanses".
    >
    > I posted the links, and took some details from one of them
    > to underscore the need to approach something like that
    > with a certain amount of caution.
    >
    > The response from one or two posters was to immediately
    > attack the person who had been cited as advising to NOT
    > rush into the cleanse.

    Really? Specifics of this "attack"?

    > No discussion of what was involved in the "cleanse". No
    > discussion of what might be good advice for someone trying
    > it out. Instead, an attack on one of the authors.

    Really? Specifics of this "attack"?

    > And that attack was NOT a fact-based appraisal of ...
    > anything whatsoever. It arose from unproven
    > allegations, falsehoods, misrepresentations, implied
    > suggestions of wrongdoing, various slanderous
    > statements, and .... rumour.

    Really? Specifics of this "attack"?

    > What this meant was that time which could have been spent
    > discussing an alt therapy went instead into witch-hunt
    > mode after non-existent "facts". The alt health discussion
    > was blatantly sabotaged.

    Oh, please. Give me a break. This is Usenet. It's like the
    friggin' Wild West. Anyone can say anything any time they
    want, and they do.

    > As well, it led to action being taken across the 'Net /
    > real life boundary.

    If it kept anyone from using these useless flushes and
    instead opting to go to a doctor, I would counter that this
    is a good thing.

    > This is not on. It is not acceptable, and I will not be a
    > party to such endeavours, nor will I sit back in silence
    > while it is occurring.

    Can the self-righteousness. It's not convincing, and it just
    makes you look silly.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
    |you inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  4. tobyjones

    tobyjones Guest

    "Anth" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > > www.swlg.com.au/bio_2.htm
    > > www.saxton.com.au/default.asp?sd8=484 )
    >
    > I'm not scared in the slightest - shit happens all the
    > time. (I also remind the cynics of the efforts of Dr
    > Victor Herbert with proving folate deficiency) The reason
    > why I am doing a cleanse is basically for the hell of it
    > and to settle a few points. (Up to Day 5 drinking apple
    > juice) Anth

    ok, well, good luck with it.
     
  5. Ilsa9.11

    Ilsa9.11 Guest

    >I'm not scared in the slightest - shit happens all
    >the time.

    Yes, for those who cleanse unnecessarily.........

    >(I also remind the cynics of the efforts of Dr Victor
    >Herbert with proving folate deficiency) The reason why I
    >am doing a cleanse is basically for the hell of it and
    >to settle a few points. (Up to Day 5 drinking apple
    >juice) Anth
     
  6. Kim

    Kim Guest

    "Ilsa9.11" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >I'm not scared in the slightest - shit happens all
    > >the time.
    >
    > Yes, for those who cleanse unnecessarily.........
    ====================
    And for those getting enough roughage in their diets. No
    unnatural "cleanses" needed. ;-)
    --
    Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
    personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
    looking for answers.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
  7. "Kim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Ilsa9.11" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > m15.aol.com...
    > > >
    > > >I'm not scared in the slightest - shit happens all the
    > > >time.
    > >
    > > Yes, for those who cleanse unnecessarily.........
    > ====================
    > And for those getting enough roughage in their diets. No
    > unnatural "cleanses" needed. ;-)

    This is something that I fail to understand about these
    cleanses. You take a concoction that makes you gag and puke,
    causes painful cramps, ending with bowel eruptions and a
    sore hiney. ,,,and they call it "natural".
     
  8. Eric Bohlman

    Eric Bohlman Guest

    "Nana Weedkiller" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > This is something that I fail to understand about these
    > cleanses. You take a concoction that makes you gag and
    > puke, causes painful cramps, ending with bowel eruptions
    > and a sore hiney. ,,,and they call it "natural".

    "Natural" in this case is simply being used as a synonym for
    "old- fashioned." Purges were a mainstay of pre-modern
    medical treatment, particularly during the Victorian era,
    which for some reason is where much American nostalgia puts
    the Golden Age. I suspect that the notion that "if it's
    unpleasant, it must be good for you" forms a big part of the
    rationale.
     
  9. Gymmy Bob

    Gymmy Bob Guest

    Where would somebody get a notion that these cleanses are
    unpleasant in the least bit, make you gag or puke, cause
    bowel eruptions or cramps? The magnesium in the flush prep
    stage makes one feel wonderful and healthy.

    Ignorance at it's finest here.

    "Eric Bohlman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Nana Weedkiller" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > This is something that I fail to understand about these
    > > cleanses. You take a concoction that makes you gag and
    > > puke, causes painful cramps, ending with bowel eruptions
    > > and a sore hiney. ,,,and they call it "natural".
    >
    > "Natural" in this case is simply being used as a synonym
    > for "old- fashioned." Purges were a mainstay of pre-modern
    > medical treatment, particularly during the Victorian era,
    > which for some reason is where much American nostalgia
    > puts the Golden Age. I suspect that the notion that
    "if
    > it's unpleasant, it must be good for you" forms a big part
    > of the rationale.
     
  10. Kim

    Kim Guest

    X-No-Archive: yes

    "Nana Weedkiller" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kim" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:s7KdnZOBlqKiOs7dRVn-
    > [email protected]
    > >
    > > "Ilsa9.11" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > > m15.aol.com...
    > > > >
    > > > >I'm not scared in the slightest - shit happens all
    > > > >the time.
    > > >
    > > > Yes, for those who cleanse unnecessarily.........
    > > ====================
    > > And for those getting enough roughage in their diets. No
    > > unnatural "cleanses" needed. ;-)
    >
    > This is something that I fail to understand about these
    > cleanses. You take a concoction that makes you gag and
    > puke, causes painful cramps, ending with bowel eruptions
    > and a sore hiney. ,,,and they call it "natural".
    ===========================
    I know exactly what you mean. There is nothing natural about
    it so why are they pushing it? Anyone on a good diet will
    not need these cleanses, flushes and enemas. Yes enemas.
    There are people paying to have some quack give them herbal
    enemas to cleanse their colons. How unnatural is THAT?
    Sounds kinky to me.
    --
    Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
    personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
    looking for answers.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
  11. Kim

    Kim Guest

    "Gymmy Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Where would somebody get a notion that these cleanses are
    > unpleasant in
    the
    > least bit, make you gag or puke, cause bowel eruptions or
    > cramps? The magnesium in the flush prep stage makes one
    > feel wonderful and healthy.
    >
    > Ignorance at it's finest here.
    ==========================
    Who doesn't know someone who tried one of these unnatural
    cleanses? Who doesn't remember them talking about 100 trips
    to the toilet, the sore/inflamed anus afterward? The "raw
    gut" feeling?

    Tell us how all this Magnesium is healthy for us? If you're
    deficient you can buy the magnesium tablets for almost
    nothing at any Wal-Mart store. ;-) No unnatural cleanse
    needed. Try sticking to a good diet and see how wonderful
    and healthy you feel.
    --
    Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
    personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
    looking for answers.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
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