Recommend me a good set of wheels...

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by cucamelsmd15, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. cucamelsmd15

    cucamelsmd15 New Member

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    Ive got Mavic CXP21's right now, and they are HEAVY, probably around 2300-2400 grams for the pair. Id like to drop a little weight, and keep these for training etc, because they seem to be fairly strong. I need something for race riding though, preferably paired or bladed spoke, and less than 300-400 dollars. Any recommendations?
     
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  2. martin_j001

    martin_j001 New Member

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    In that price range, you may be best suited by having a set of Open Pro's with D/A hubs built. They will weigh in around 1500g or so, if I'm not mistaken. They will also be quite durable, assuming you don't put them through what they're not made for. I had a set of these for about 1.5 years that I rode almost daily, before I had to true them or do any major work on them (I weighed in at around 215-230 then too).
     
  3. cucamelsmd15

    cucamelsmd15 New Member

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    Is there an online shop that would build those, or would I have to check with a local shop around me? (I weigh in at about 185, so I dont think weight will matter that much)
     
  4. martin_j001

    martin_j001 New Member

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    You can find them through online/catalog retailers as well as your local shops. Just make sure they are built by a knowledgeable wheelbuilder. You can probably go for 28 spokes on the front and 32 on the rear, and save a little more weight. I used DT Revolution spokes when I had mine built as well.
     
  5. strummer_fan

    strummer_fan New Member

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    There is a great bike shop in Pennsylvania that does mailorder. They have an online custom wheel configurator, that calcs out the price as well.

    http://www.speedgoat.com

    good luck!
     
  6. RBS

    RBS New Member

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    mike garcia at oddsandendos.com built me a terrific set of wheels. velocity aeroheadss w/ wheelsmith spokes under 300 including shipping. call him up (don't email) and he'll talk to you all day about wheels.

    bob
     
  7. cucamelsmd15

    cucamelsmd15 New Member

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    Looking at the spoke data, what should I be concerned about as far as the weight/spoke stiffness ratio is concerned?
     
  8. strummer_fan

    strummer_fan New Member

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    Wheel designs / spoke counts / lacing patterns elicit the same variety and range of strongly felt opinions as Shimano vs. Campagnolo, Road vs. Mountain, Tubular vs. Clincher and so on...

    My suggestion: You have to do your own research. There are numerous great threads in this forum, just search them. Look at http://www.sheldonbrown.com, and the other usual places.

    I only pointed out the SpeedGoat site, because their WheelBuilder application has to be the coolest thing I've seen online for comparing costs, weight, and components.

    Pick the rims, pick the hubs, pick the spokes, pick the rim tape, the whole nine yards. It spits out the weight and the cost. That is just plain cool. I used to live in PA and have numerous friends who can vouch for the shop in general, and their custom wheelsets in particular.

    And, No, I'm not affiliated with the shop, and I've never actually ordered anything from them.

    :eek:
     
  9. wilmar13

    wilmar13 New Member

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    I've said it before I will say it again: My Campy Neutrons are the toughest wheels I have ever had. I have had many wheels with open pro 32 spoke, sometimes I broke a spoke, sometimes I bent a rim, often needed to be trued, but overall good solid wheels....I actually bought the Neutrons for race wheels but after I broke another spoke on my training wheels (always drive side rear, probably too much dish) they became my daily wheels about 4 years and 20,000 miles ago. I have put these Neutrons through hell and I have never had to true them, never have to replace a spoke, nothing, AND again I use them as my daily wheels. They are so stiff, great for putting power down. I am 6'4" and about 200 lbs so are not being abused by a featherweight.

    Something happened tonight that just made me in awe of either how strong they are, or how lucky I have been with them... On my way home from the Thursday night circuit race (club), I was drafting a van, and BAM I fell in one of the ubiquitous 3ft. holes in Brasil's streets. The impact was so severe I sprained my wrist, and with a very loud THWACK, thought my wheel was ruined (this has happened several times before, but not at 50kmph. Turns out I broke one of the bolts in my stem, and my bars turned forward. The wheels are totally unscathed AGAIN, I just can't believe it. For your price range, you will need to buy these used, and MAYBE there are wheels equal in quality out there, but Campy stuff is tough 1st, light 2nd, and cheap, well no but hey what do you expect. Pick-up a pair on Ebay used from a reputable seller and you won't be disappointed.
     
  10. daveornee

    daveornee New Member

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    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/data.htm
    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=roadwheels
    Should give you some independent information and specifics.
    Finding a builder that can properly take the quality components and get the most out of them should be a high priority.
    "Ordinary" hubs from Shimano and Campagnolo are difficult to beat for durability and serviceability.
    Someone can always brag about a lighter wheel of wheel component, but they seem to go silent when time in service and availability of service/parts/tools comes into the picture.
     
  11. 53-11

    53-11 New Member

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    Asymetric rear rim right? Campy seems to be the best at equalizing spoke tension using aymetric technology.

    Open Pros have been recommended by some and while they are sufficient for daily service (I ride them) , but there is better stuff out there now than an oldschool box style rim which is neither very stiff or aerodynamic. V profile is going to give you stiffness and aerodynamics. If you are set on a really lightweight rim (no heavy aero rims) then check out the Velocity Aerohead in addition to the Open Pro. It's 405 grams and has a little 21mm V profile. It can also be had in an aymetric rear like the Neutron.

    P.S. There is a whole new generation of 30mm Deep Rims that only weigh 455 grams (alloyed with Niobium) used by Reynolds, IRD, Speedcific.



    You want durability get a stiff rim and use butted spokes.
     
  12. cucamelsmd15

    cucamelsmd15 New Member

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    Ive looked at the odds and endos website, and I really like the looks of these:
    http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/2/99.htm?175
    With a rear to match of course. I was thinking yellow, since my GT is yellow.

    Anyway, I dont understand the difference between the deep, and aero rims etc. Can anyone explain that to me?
     
  13. artmichalek

    artmichalek New Member

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    Deep/aero rims are as the name implies designed to be more aerodynamic. While a standard rim is pretty much a box, aero rims are shaped like airfoils. Depending on how fast you're going and how deep the aero rims are, the drag reduction is pretty significant. There are some trade offs though. As the rim section gets deeper, it also gets stiffer, which can lead to a slightly harsher ride. Deeper rims also get twitchy in cross winds. You have to go deeper than 30mm for this to be a major problem, but it's something to think about.
     
  14. martin_j001

    martin_j001 New Member

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    I actually use the Velocity Deep-V wheels in that electric blue color. They look real nice, and they are super strong (perfect for a fat guy like me).
     
  15. 53-11

    53-11 New Member

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    What he said.

    The nice thing about a stiff rim though is that they let you use thinner spokes or even less spokes.

    If you want a durable wheel that stays true longer it's better to go with a stiff rim and use elastic spokes (butted) to distrubute forces better. (According to Jobst Brandt's book)

    I've had the Aeroheads before and compared to Open Pros I think they are a better design (subjective feeling). Next rims I'd like to try are 30mm Deeper V (Aero) ones though- especially now that Oddsandendos sells the 455 gram Deep V's.
     
  16. artmichalek

    artmichalek New Member

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    I built a rear wheel for a faired three wheeled recumbent with one of those. 32 straight 14 gauge spokes to a Sram Spectro S7 hub. 2x drive side and radial non drive. Depending on the rider the overall vehicle weight was around 225. We were pushing the thing through corners at about 0.9-1.1 g's. Since the vehicle didn't lean like a regular bike, the side loads were huge. After the race (2004 ASME Human Powered Vehicle Challenge), the wheel was still within a mm of true.
     
  17. jawnn

    jawnn New Member

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    :eek: UNDERSTANDING DELTA TRIKE WHEELS
    After having trouble with my trike wheels I dug up this information.

    PIPPA GARNER (builder of quadrocycles): Well, yeah. I retightened the spokes on my canted wheels twice and finally got rid of the pinging noises, but I had the problem on 2 different cycles with canted wheels, one built by Varna in Canada, so the spokes must be tighter than what is considered conventional in wheel building. Certainly the application has something to do with it. There's no question that asymmetrically tensioned spokes are subject to more stress than wheels with the rims centered between the flanges.

    HASE DELTA TRIKES: *yes, all spokes have the same length (172 mm) and so they also have the same tension. A symmetric bike wheel is the strongest solution, even with disc brakes. Both flanges on our wheels are the same size. The Ez3-usx is a cheap copy of our trike. Best regards Rüdiger Knopp Diese, hase-bikes.com

    LIGHT FOOTCYCLES: Smaller wheels are much stronger in almost all respects. They would suffer less distortion from braking, as well, because of the steeper angulations and shorter spokes with less give. Rod Miner Lightfoot Cycles Inc. 179 Leavens Road, Darby, MT 59829 USA , lightfootcycles.com

    GERD SHRANER (the art of wheel building): for years I worked with out a tensiometer, being under the false impression that instinct and experience were enough. When I finally started using one I discovered that even my mood on any given day gave me different result. To adjust your rim off center on the axle, just visually determine the spoke length. Then open the rim calipers on the truing stand and let only one side touch the rim. You may need some new nipples because they could disintegrate during adjustment.

    BROX QUADROCYCLES: On wheels with low spoke tension on one side you may experience the disc brake pulling the tight spokes before the loose side. Centering the rim between the flanges will eliminate this action, but you still need higher tension on the spokes because of the compression factor from lateral forces. We use symmetrically dished wheels with disc brakes, and box wall rims. Brox.co.uk

    KEITH BONTAGER (bicycle engineer) The disc brake side spokes should be slightly looser, yet still have the same length. However for light duty use a 20” wheel can be the same tension as the other side.

    BOB BRYANT (RCN magazine): In a hard turn most of the weight goes to the out side spokes so they should be at least as tight as the inside spokes, because after all the axle does stand on the spokes. The reason that Sun bicycles built the wheels like bike wheels is simply that they couldn’t afford to build a new wheel-building machine and still keep the price down. If you paid $265 for your wheels they should be willing to build them correctly.
     
  18. li0scc0

    li0scc0 New Member

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    I have had three wheels (one wheelset and one rear wheel) built from oddsandendos.com. All wheels are quite sub-par, unfortunately. I had very high hopes with what I had 'heard', yet all three wheels came out of true within 100 miles. Plus, both rear hubs have significant indentation from the cassette cogs, clearly the rear hub material is soft.
    The hubs are Speedcific Perception, and do not spin well at all. I would rate them much worse than Mavic, Velomax/Easton, Campagnolo, Shimano hubs, worse than Gipiemme and even Velocity (heavy but durable).
    The rims are
    1) Wheel 1 - the Velocity Aerohead OC for the rear wheel, and I have had wheels with this rim that have stayed true. 2) Wheels 2 and 3 - the wheelset - Speedcific Niobium rims.
    Additionally, the spokes on the wheelset were advertised as bladed but are definitely not bladed for somebody used to Campagnolo Eurus and Mavic Ksyrium spokes.
    Finally, one quick release arrived already stripped and had to be tossed in the garbage can.

    Thus I am very disappointed. All wheels need constant truing and are quite a change from the bomproof Eurus wheels I raced on last year, and the equally bombproof Velocity Nuvian wheels I trained on last year. But a switch from Campy to Shimano required some new wheels - in hindsight a conversion cassette would have made better sense!!!!

    Cheers, Steve
     
  19. supergrill

    supergrill New Member

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    Steve,
    Certainly does not instill much confidence in them. Just out of curiousity, what is the spoke count on the three wheels that you have been having so much trouble with from oddsanendos? Thanks.
     
  20. kleng

    kleng New Member

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