record attempts

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Openworld, Apr 28, 2003.

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  1. Openworld

    Openworld Guest

    Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records. Have developed a differant type of transmission
    for the human-mechanical interface. Think the best way to make money is by setting a record-rather
    than sell an empty concept. And I know it will- and thats with me riding it-I would love an actual
    athelete to use it!
     
    Tags:


  2. In article <[email protected]>, "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records. Have developed a differant type of
    > transmission for the human-mechanical interface. Think the best way to make money is by setting a
    > record-rather than sell an empty concept. And I know it will- and thats with me riding it-I would
    > love an actual athelete to use it!

    Yes there is. The current $25000 "decimach" prize is available for hitting 82 mph in a world record
    attempt. Note that this is very close at hand:

    http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvarec7.html#nom01

    That's the listing for the 200m flying-start speed record, the de facto land speed record for HPVs.

    The 200m record is held by Georgiev's "Varna Diablo", and along with his power source, Sam
    Whittingham, they are the reigning champions of speed.

    There is also a $25000 prize for doing 90 km in one hour (the "hour record"). This is somewhat
    farther from being claimed. Current hour record is 82.60 km/h.

    http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvademph.html

    The rules: http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvadempr.html

    The record: http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvarec7.html#nom27

    The hour record is interesting because it has a storied history, complements the prestigous UCI hour
    record, and indicates sustained human performance, which is interesting because humans have a
    tendency to get tired.

    Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation is necessary: we get someone
    posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel invention related to bicycling or
    human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:

    1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as failures

    2) never invented before, and never should have been

    3) actually might be useful.

    I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a type-3 idea posted here, though the
    debate about Powercranks is ongoing.

    Bicycle transmissions are especially prone to this sort of kook-inventiveness, and some reading is
    worthwhile to see if your idea has already been attempted. Please be prepared to eat humble pie if
    your idea turns out to be stupid, useless, or already in existence.

    Finally, there are some very smart people in rbt. If you post your idea here, you will probably get
    the best free feedback possible.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  3. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records. Have developed a differant type of
    > transmission for the human-mechanical interface. Think the best way to make money is by setting a
    > record-rather than sell an empty concept. And I know it will- and thats with me riding it-I would
    > love an actual athelete to use it!

    There's a cash prize for the World Human Powered Speed Challenge:
    http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/whpsc2003/speedchallenge-2003.htm

    However, there's very little to be gained in the area of mechanical efficiency of a bicycle.
    Conventional chain drives are 95 to 99% efficient in transmitting power to the road. Going faster in
    the bicycle world usually means better aerodynamic efficiency, not mechanical improvements.

    Jeff
     
  4. Actually, I fail to see how a HPV speed record, especially one that has a flying start, meaning you
    would already be in your highest gear at top speed, would help sell a newfangled transmission.

    Perhaps something like a hillclimb would be more applicable, or a road race or time trial over
    varied terrain. Something that would better tout the benifits of a new device for shifting gears?

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  5. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    [email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > Actually, I fail to see how a HPV speed record, especially one that has a flying start, meaning
    > you would already be in your highest gear at top speed, would help sell a newfangled transmission.

    It's very easy to see how it would. Whether it should is another matter.

    --
    Dave...
     
  6. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    Ryan Cousineau wrote:

    >
    > Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation is necessary: we get someone
    > posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel invention related to bicycling or
    > human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:
    >
    > 1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as failures
    >
    > 2) never invented before, and never should have been
    >
    > 3) actually might be useful.
    >
    > I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a type-3 idea posted here, though
    > the debate about Powercranks is ongoing.

    Although not exactly an invention, I wonder which category you consider my postings about disk
    brakes and quick release problems falls into.

    Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is happening
    to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from the
    Google archive. Presumably it is only a short-term technical problem, but the rest of the system
    seems to be working fine and I've never noticed it happening before. I know for sure that the posts
    in question were in the archive only yesterday, as I frequently use Google for news reading/posting,
    although I am not doing so on this occasion.

    James
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>, James Annan <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation is necessary: we get someone
    > > posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel invention related to bicycling or
    > > human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:
    > >
    > > 1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as failures
    > >
    > > 2) never invented before, and never should have been
    > >
    > > 3) actually might be useful.
    > >
    > > I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a type-3 idea posted here, though
    > > the debate about Powercranks is ongoing.
    >
    > Although not exactly an invention, I wonder which category you consider my postings about disk
    > brakes and quick release problems falls into.

    None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
    brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.

    I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.

    > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is happening
    > to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from
    > the Google archive. Presumably it is only a short-term technical problem, but the rest of the
    > system seems to be working fine and I've never noticed it happening before. I know for sure that
    > the posts in question were in the archive only yesterday, as I frequently use Google for news
    > reading/posting, although I am not doing so on this occasion.
    >
    > James

    No answer for that....

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  8. B. Sanders

    B. Sanders Guest

    "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records.

    $25k for the decimach, as others have mentioned

    > Have developed a differant type of transmission for the human-mechanical interface. Think the best
    > way to make money is by setting a record-rather than sell an empty concept. And I know it will-
    > and thats with me riding it-I would love an actual athelete to use it!

    I'm curious: Have you built a prototype? Have you tested it? What sort of record are you
    expecting to set?

    Note that the bikes that are ready to break the 82mph decimach barrier are basicially pedal-powered
    needles. The majority of their engineering is in the aerodynamics (though certainly not all of it).

    If you could partner with an existing Battle Mountain speed record team, and talk them into trying
    your new human mechanical interface, perhaps it could be a double victory - set the decimach record
    and gain lots of attention for your patented mechanism.

    You'll please excuse us if we're a little skeptical of your claims, however. Bicycle transmissions
    are above 95% efficient, and there have been thousands of attempts to better them over the past
    century or so. Also, unless you're a world-class athlete with insane power output, even if your new
    device leverages other muscle groups (arms, upper body) it's still unlikely that you would set *any*
    world record without lots of training and a well-engineered prototype vehicle.

    Just a thought: If your device extracts more power from the human pilot/engine, that's just what
    human powered helicopter engineers are looking for. I believe there is a cash prize for human
    powered helicopter flight; but I'm too lazy to look it up :)

    Don't be shy about approaching the Human Powered Vehicle folks with your ideas. They do some pretty
    inventive and incredibly unconventional things with all types of vehicles: www.ihpva.org

    Best of luck

    Barry
     
  9. Penna Elabi

    Penna Elabi Guest

    James Annan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is happening
    > to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from
    > the Google archive. Presumably it is only a short-term technical problem, but the rest of the
    > system seems to be working fine and I've never noticed it happening before. I know for sure that
    > the posts in question were in the archive only yesterday, as I frequently use Google for news
    > reading/posting, although I am not doing so on this occasion.

    Surprise, surprise, Google is having problems again:

    http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&group=google.public.support.general&selm=9e60472f.0304282330.37-
    1f8baa%40posting.google.com

    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=77081966.0210120353.72495121%40posting.g-
    oogle.com&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dauthor:terebinthus%2540go.com%2Bgoogle%2Bproblems%26num%3D100%2-
    6hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26filter%3D0
     
  10. Openworld

    Openworld Guest

    Please do be sceptical. I started by looking for the optimum pedal path of the foot, to achieve as
    constant a torque as possible. I.e not up and down and not round in a circle. Funny egg shape where
    one side is collapsed in on itself. I am aware that the bicycle transmission is efficient, just the
    transfer from human to bike that can be improved. I am perfectly used to being laughed at...usualy
    with good reason....and my aim is certainly not fame...

    As to the world class athelete...I used to be one but injury forces me to achieve success in
    another form.

    Do you know of any teams based in the uk?

    "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:R%[email protected]...
    > "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records.
    >
    > $25k for the decimach, as others have mentioned
    >
    > > Have developed a differant type of transmission for the human-mechanical interface. Think the
    > > best way to make money is by setting a
    record-rather
    > > than sell an empty concept. And I know it will- and thats with me riding it-I would love an
    > > actual athelete to use it!
    >
    > I'm curious: Have you built a prototype? Have you tested it? What sort of record are you
    > expecting to set?
    >
    > Note that the bikes that are ready to break the 82mph decimach barrier are basicially
    > pedal-powered needles. The majority of their engineering is in the aerodynamics (though certainly
    > not all of it).
    >
    > If you could partner with an existing Battle Mountain speed record team,
    and
    > talk them into trying your new human mechanical interface, perhaps it
    could
    > be a double victory - set the decimach record and gain lots of attention
    for
    > your patented mechanism.
    >
    > You'll please excuse us if we're a little skeptical of your claims,
    however.
    > Bicycle transmissions are above 95% efficient, and there have been
    thousands
    > of attempts to better them over the past century or so. Also, unless
    you're
    > a world-class athlete with insane power output, even if your new device leverages other muscle
    > groups (arms, upper body) it's still unlikely that you would set *any* world record without lots
    > of training and a well-engineered prototype vehicle.
    >
    > Just a thought: If your device extracts more power from the human pilot/engine, that's just what
    > human powered helicopter engineers are looking for. I believe there is a cash prize for human
    > powered helicopter flight; but I'm too lazy to look it up :)
    >
    > Don't be shy about approaching the Human Powered Vehicle folks with your ideas. They do some
    > pretty inventive and incredibly unconventional things with all types of vehicles: www.ihpva.org
    >
    > Best of luck
    >
    > Barry
     
  11. Openworld

    Openworld Guest

    Well if it works then people are interested, if not then they are not! Plus I love doing things
    differantly.

    "Dave Kahn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > Actually, I fail to see how a HPV speed record, especially one that has a flying start, meaning
    > > you would already be in your highest gear at top speed, would help sell a newfangled
    > > transmission.
    >
    > It's very easy to see how it would. Whether it should is another matter.
    >
    > --
    > Dave...
     
  12. Openworld

    Openworld Guest

    Through axles are there to stiffen what would otherwise be a very flexy telescopic front end.
    Problem when one leg compresses and the other doesnot. "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, James Annan <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation is necessary: we get
    > > > someone posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel invention related to
    > > > bicycling or human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:
    > > >
    > > > 1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as
    failures
    > > >
    > > > 2) never invented before, and never should have been
    > > >
    > > > 3) actually might be useful.
    > > >
    > > > I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a
    type-3
    > > > idea posted here, though the debate about Powercranks is ongoing.
    > >
    > > Although not exactly an invention, I wonder which category you consider my postings about disk
    > > brakes and quick release problems falls into.
    >
    > None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
    > brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.
    >
    > I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.
    >
    > > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is
    > > happening to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have
    > > vanished from the Google archive. Presumably it is only a short-term technical problem, but the
    > > rest of the system seems to be working fine and I've never noticed it happening before. I know
    > > for sure that the posts in question were in the archive only yesterday, as I frequently use
    > > Google for news reading/posting, although I am not doing so on this occasion.
    > >
    > > James
    >
    > No answer for that....
    >
    > --
    > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  13. Fritz M

    Fritz M Guest

    "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I started by looking for the optimum pedal path of the foot... Funny egg shape where one side is
    > collapsed in on itself.

    Are you talking about something different from Biopace?

    RFM
    --
    To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t
     
  14. Openworld

    Openworld Guest

    Biopace the foot still travels in a circle-I am looking to change the pedal(sorry mathematical
    term)/ path the foot follows. "Fritz M" <[email protected]+> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I started by looking for the optimum pedal path of the foot... Funny egg shape where one side is
    > > collapsed in on itself.
    >
    > Are you talking about something different from Biopace?
    >
    > RFM
    > --
    > To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t
     
  15. Openworld

    Openworld Guest

    Old school double sided disk brakes...I think they were by mountain cycle....disk on both sides of
    the wheel.

    "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Through axles are there to stiffen what would otherwise be a very flexy telescopic front end.
    > Problem when one leg compresses and the other
    doesnot.
    > "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, James Annan <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation
    is
    > > > > necessary: we get someone posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel
    > > > > invention related to bicycling or human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:
    > > > >
    > > > > 1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as
    > failures
    > > > >
    > > > > 2) never invented before, and never should have been
    > > > >
    > > > > 3) actually might be useful.
    > > > >
    > > > > I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a
    > type-3
    > > > > idea posted here, though the debate about Powercranks is ongoing.
    > > >
    > > > Although not exactly an invention, I wonder which category you
    consider
    > > > my postings about disk brakes and quick release problems falls into.
    > >
    > > None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
    > > brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.
    > >
    > > I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.
    > >
    > > > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is
    > > > happening to my postings, since my recent posts
    (and
    > > > in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from the Google archive. Presumably it is
    > > > only a short-term technical problem, but the rest of the system seems to be working fine and
    > > > I've never noticed it happening before. I know for sure that the posts in question were in
    the
    > > > archive only yesterday, as I frequently use Google for news reading/posting, although I am not
    > > > doing so on this occasion.
    > > >
    > > > James
    > >
    > > No answer for that....
    > >
    > > --
    > > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni
    > > Fan Club
     
  16. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
    > brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.
    >
    > I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.

    Not supposed to be (it's claimed to be for increased stiffness, and none of the manufacturers will
    acknowledge that there is a design problem at all) but no doubt it will help to encourage the trend
    in that direction.

    > > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is
    > > happening to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have
    > > vanished from the Google archive.

    >
    > No answer for that....

    Seems like Google dropped just about everything over the weekend. Just think, all the combined wit
    and wisdom of countless thousands, lost to the world for ever...

    James
     
  17. B. Sanders

    B. Sanders Guest

    "James Annan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
    > > brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.
    > >
    > > I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.
    >
    > Not supposed to be (it's claimed to be for increased stiffness, and none of the manufacturers will
    > acknowledge that there is a design problem at all) but no doubt it will help to encourage the
    > trend in that direction.
    >
    > > > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is
    > > > happening to my postings, since my recent posts
    (and
    > > > in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from the Google archive.
    >
    > >
    > > No answer for that....
    >
    > Seems like Google dropped just about everything over the weekend. Just think, all the combined wit
    > and wisdom of countless thousands, lost to the world for ever...

    What!?!? Are you kidding? That can't be!

    -Barry
     
  18. B. Sanders

    B. Sanders Guest

    "Jon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Please do be sceptical. I started by looking for the optimum pedal path of the foot, to achieve
    as
    > >constant a torque as possible. I.e not up and down and not round in a circle. Funny egg shape
    > >where one side is collapsed in on itself.

    Interesting. Is this assuming that the foot is active (ie: "ankling") or stationary relative to the
    leg during the stroke? How did you determine the optimum path? Is it hypothetical, or based upon
    ideal kinesiological conditions? I presume that the optimum path is determined by analyzing the
    ideal choreography of major muscle groups throughout the pedal stroke to achieve the most continuous
    power output. Is that substantially correct? It sounds a bit like the human interface for an
    elliptical trainer.

    > >I am aware that the bicycle transmission is efficient, just the transfer from human to bike that
    > >can be improved.

    I'm willing to believe this is possible, since there are well known "dead spots" in the circular
    pedal stroke. What kind of gains are you expecting to achieve? Have you done mathematical modeling
    of the system and/or built a working prototype and performed tests with it?

    > Actually this is also quite efficient.

    Is it impossible that a more efficient system could be developed? When elite racers are willing to
    do anything for a 1% performance gain (aero wheels, for instance), I'm of the belief that our
    inventor friend may be able to sell a product that offers any demonstrable benefits.

    -Barry
     
  19. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

  20. Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Yes there is. The current $25000 "decimach" prize is available for hitting 82 mph in a world
    : record attempt. Note that this is very close

    I think there is/was a similar prize for watercraft. But those generally can't go much faster than
    20 km/h, so maybe they are too boring.

    --
    Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
     
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