record attempts

[Openworld]

Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records. Have developed a differant type of transmission
for the human-mechanical interface. Think the best way to make money is by setting a record-rather
than sell an empty concept. And I know it will- and thats with me riding it-I would love an actual
athelete to use it!

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>, "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records. Have developed a differant type of
> transmission for the human-mechanical interface. Think the best way to make money is by setting a
> record-rather than sell an empty concept. And I know it will- and thats with me riding it-I would
> love an actual athelete to use it!

Yes there is. The current $25000 "decimach" prize is available for hitting 82 mph in a world record
attempt. Note that this is very close at hand:

http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvarec7.html#nom01

That's the listing for the 200m flying-start speed record, the de facto land speed record for HPVs.

The 200m record is held by Georgiev's "Varna Diablo", and along with his power source, Sam
Whittingham, they are the reigning champions of speed.

There is also a $25000 prize for doing 90 km in one hour (the "hour record"). This is somewhat
farther from being claimed. Current hour record is 82.60 km/h.

http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvademph.html

The rules: http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvadempr.html

The record: http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvarec7.html#nom27

The hour record is interesting because it has a storied history, complements the prestigous UCI hour
record, and indicates sustained human performance, which is interesting because humans have a
tendency to get tired.

Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation is necessary: we get someone
posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel invention related to bicycling or
human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:

1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as failures

2) never invented before, and never should have been

3) actually might be useful.

I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a type-3 idea posted here, though the
debate about Powercranks is ongoing.

Bicycle transmissions are especially prone to this sort of kook-inventiveness, and some reading is
worthwhile to see if your idea has already been attempted. Please be prepared to eat humble pie if
your idea turns out to be stupid, useless, or already in existence.

Finally, there are some very smart people in rbt. If you post your idea here, you will probably get
the best free feedback possible.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

 

[Jeff Wills]

"Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records. Have developed a differant type of
> transmission for the human-mechanical interface. Think the best way to make money is by setting a
> record-rather than sell an empty concept. And I know it will- and thats with me riding it-I would
> love an actual athelete to use it!

There's a cash prize for the World Human Powered Speed Challenge:
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/whpsc2003/speedchallenge-2003.htm

However, there's very little to be gained in the area of mechanical efficiency of a bicycle.
Conventional chain drives are 95 to 99% efficient in transmitting power to the road. Going faster in
the bicycle world usually means better aerodynamic efficiency, not mechanical improvements.

Jeff

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

Actually, I fail to see how a HPV speed record, especially one that has a flying start, meaning you
would already be in your highest gear at top speed, would help sell a newfangled transmission.

Perhaps something like a hillclimb would be more applicable, or a road race or time trial over
varied terrain. Something that would better tout the benifits of a new device for shifting gears?

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Dave Kahn]

[email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> Actually, I fail to see how a HPV speed record, especially one that has a flying start, meaning
> you would already be in your highest gear at top speed, would help sell a newfangled transmission.

It's very easy to see how it would. Whether it should is another matter.

--
Dave...

 

[James Annan]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

>
> Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation is necessary: we get someone
> posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel invention related to bicycling or
> human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:
>
> 1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as failures
>
> 2) never invented before, and never should have been
>
> 3) actually might be useful.
>
> I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a type-3 idea posted here, though
> the debate about Powercranks is ongoing.

Although not exactly an invention, I wonder which category you consider my postings about disk
brakes and quick release problems falls into.

Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is happening
to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from the
Google archive. Presumably it is only a short-term technical problem, but the rest of the system
seems to be working fine and I've never noticed it happening before. I know for sure that the posts
in question were in the archive only yesterday, as I frequently use Google for news reading/posting,
although I am not doing so on this occasion.

James

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>, James Annan <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> >
> > Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation is necessary: we get someone
> > posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel invention related to bicycling or
> > human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:
> >
> > 1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as failures
> >
> > 2) never invented before, and never should have been
> >
> > 3) actually might be useful.
> >
> > I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a type-3 idea posted here, though
> > the debate about Powercranks is ongoing.
>
> Although not exactly an invention, I wonder which category you consider my postings about disk
> brakes and quick release problems falls into.

None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.

I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.

> Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is happening
> to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from
> the Google archive. Presumably it is only a short-term technical problem, but the rest of the
> system seems to be working fine and I've never noticed it happening before. I know for sure that
> the posts in question were in the archive only yesterday, as I frequently use Google for news
> reading/posting, although I am not doing so on this occasion.
>
> James

No answer for that....

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

 

[B. Sanders]

"Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records.

$25k for the decimach, as others have mentioned

> Have developed a differant type of transmission for the human-mechanical interface. Think the best
> way to make money is by setting a record-rather than sell an empty concept. And I know it will-
> and thats with me riding it-I would love an actual athelete to use it!

I'm curious: Have you built a prototype? Have you tested it? What sort of record are you
expecting to set?

Note that the bikes that are ready to break the 82mph decimach barrier are basicially pedal-powered
needles. The majority of their engineering is in the aerodynamics (though certainly not all of it).

If you could partner with an existing Battle Mountain speed record team, and talk them into trying
your new human mechanical interface, perhaps it could be a double victory - set the decimach record
and gain lots of attention for your patented mechanism.

You'll please excuse us if we're a little skeptical of your claims, however. Bicycle transmissions
are above 95% efficient, and there have been thousands of attempts to better them over the past
century or so. Also, unless you're a world-class athlete with insane power output, even if your new
device leverages other muscle groups (arms, upper body) it's still unlikely that you would set *any*
world record without lots of training and a well-engineered prototype vehicle.

Just a thought: If your device extracts more power from the human pilot/engine, that's just what
human powered helicopter engineers are looking for. I believe there is a cash prize for human
powered helicopter flight; but I'm too lazy to look it up

Don't be shy about approaching the Human Powered Vehicle folks with your ideas. They do some pretty
inventive and incredibly unconventional things with all types of vehicles: www.ihpva.org

Best of luck

Barry

 

[Penna Elabi]

James Annan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is happening
> to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from
> the Google archive. Presumably it is only a short-term technical problem, but the rest of the
> system seems to be working fine and I've never noticed it happening before. I know for sure that
> the posts in question were in the archive only yesterday, as I frequently use Google for news
> reading/posting, although I am not doing so on this occasion.

Surprise, surprise, Google is having problems again:

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&group=google.public.support.general&selm=9e60472f.0304282330.37-
1f8baa%40posting.google.com

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=77081966.0210120353.72495121%40posting.g-
oogle.com&rnum=5&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dauthor:terebinthus%2540go.com%2Bgoogle%2Bproblems%26num%3D100%2-
6hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26filter%3D0

 

[Openworld]

Please do be sceptical. I started by looking for the optimum pedal path of the foot, to achieve as
constant a torque as possible. I.e not up and down and not round in a circle. Funny egg shape where
one side is collapsed in on itself. I am aware that the bicycle transmission is efficient, just the
transfer from human to bike that can be improved. I am perfectly used to being laughed at...usualy
with good reason....and my aim is certainly not fame...

As to the world class athelete...I used to be one but injury forces me to achieve success in
another form.

Do you know of any teams based in the uk?

"B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:R%[email protected]...
> "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Is anyone aware of any prizefunds for world records.
>
> $25k for the decimach, as others have mentioned
>
> > Have developed a differant type of transmission for the human-mechanical interface. Think the
> > best way to make money is by setting a
record-rather
> > than sell an empty concept. And I know it will- and thats with me riding it-I would love an
> > actual athelete to use it!
>
> I'm curious: Have you built a prototype? Have you tested it? What sort of record are you
> expecting to set?
>
> Note that the bikes that are ready to break the 82mph decimach barrier are basicially
> pedal-powered needles. The majority of their engineering is in the aerodynamics (though certainly
> not all of it).
>
> If you could partner with an existing Battle Mountain speed record team,
and
> talk them into trying your new human mechanical interface, perhaps it
could
> be a double victory - set the decimach record and gain lots of attention
for
> your patented mechanism.
>
> You'll please excuse us if we're a little skeptical of your claims,
however.
> Bicycle transmissions are above 95% efficient, and there have been
thousands
> of attempts to better them over the past century or so. Also, unless
you're
> a world-class athlete with insane power output, even if your new device leverages other muscle
> groups (arms, upper body) it's still unlikely that you would set *any* world record without lots
> of training and a well-engineered prototype vehicle.
>
> Just a thought: If your device extracts more power from the human pilot/engine, that's just what
> human powered helicopter engineers are looking for. I believe there is a cash prize for human
> powered helicopter flight; but I'm too lazy to look it up
>
> Don't be shy about approaching the Human Powered Vehicle folks with your ideas. They do some
> pretty inventive and incredibly unconventional things with all types of vehicles: www.ihpva.org
>
> Best of luck
>
> Barry

 

[Openworld]

Well if it works then people are interested, if not then they are not! Plus I love doing things
differantly.

"Dave Kahn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Actually, I fail to see how a HPV speed record, especially one that has a flying start, meaning
> > you would already be in your highest gear at top speed, would help sell a newfangled
> > transmission.
>
> It's very easy to see how it would. Whether it should is another matter.
>
> --
> Dave...

 

[Openworld]

Through axles are there to stiffen what would otherwise be a very flexy telescopic front end.
Problem when one leg compresses and the other doesnot. "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, James Annan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation is necessary: we get
> > > someone posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel invention related to
> > > bicycling or human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:
> > >
> > > 1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as
failures
> > >
> > > 2) never invented before, and never should have been
> > >
> > > 3) actually might be useful.
> > >
> > > I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a
type-3
> > > idea posted here, though the debate about Powercranks is ongoing.
> >
> > Although not exactly an invention, I wonder which category you consider my postings about disk
> > brakes and quick release problems falls into.
>
> None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
> brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.
>
> I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.
>
> > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is
> > happening to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have
> > vanished from the Google archive. Presumably it is only a short-term technical problem, but the
> > rest of the system seems to be working fine and I've never noticed it happening before. I know
> > for sure that the posts in question were in the archive only yesterday, as I frequently use
> > Google for news reading/posting, although I am not doing so on this occasion.
> >
> > James
>
> No answer for that....
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

 

[Fritz M]

"Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I started by looking for the optimum pedal path of the foot... Funny egg shape where one side is
> collapsed in on itself.

Are you talking about something different from Biopace?

RFM
--
To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t

 

[Openworld]

Biopace the foot still travels in a circle-I am looking to change the pedal(sorry mathematical
term)/ path the foot follows. "Fritz M" <[email protected]+> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I started by looking for the optimum pedal path of the foot... Funny egg shape where one side is
> > collapsed in on itself.
>
> Are you talking about something different from Biopace?
>
> RFM
> --
> To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t

 

[Openworld]

Old school double sided disk brakes...I think they were by mountain cycle....disk on both sides of
the wheel.

"Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Through axles are there to stiffen what would otherwise be a very flexy telescopic front end.
> Problem when one leg compresses and the other
doesnot.
> "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, James Annan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Now, you are about to be treated like a kook, and some explanation
is
> > > > necessary: we get someone posting to rec.bikes.tech about every few weeks with a novel
> > > > invention related to bicycling or human-powered vehicles. They fall into three categories:
> > > >
> > > > 1) invented in the first 30 years of bicycles, and abandoned as
> failures
> > > >
> > > > 2) never invented before, and never should have been
> > > >
> > > > 3) actually might be useful.
> > > >
> > > > I have followed this group for about a year. I have never seen a
> type-3
> > > > idea posted here, though the debate about Powercranks is ongoing.
> > >
> > > Although not exactly an invention, I wonder which category you
consider
> > > my postings about disk brakes and quick release problems falls into.
> >
> > None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
> > brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.
> >
> > I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.
> >
> > > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is
> > > happening to my postings, since my recent posts
(and
> > > in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from the Google archive. Presumably it is
> > > only a short-term technical problem, but the rest of the system seems to be working fine and
> > > I've never noticed it happening before. I know for sure that the posts in question were in
the
> > > archive only yesterday, as I frequently use Google for news reading/posting, although I am not
> > > doing so on this occasion.
> > >
> > > James
> >
> > No answer for that....
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni
> > Fan Club

 

[James Annan]

Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
> brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.
>
> I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.

Not supposed to be (it's claimed to be for increased stiffness, and none of the manufacturers will
acknowledge that there is a design problem at all) but no doubt it will help to encourage the trend
in that direction.

> > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is
> > happening to my postings, since my recent posts (and in fact whole sections of threads) have
> > vanished from the Google archive.

>
> No answer for that....

Seems like Google dropped just about everything over the weekend. Just think, all the combined wit
and wisdom of countless thousands, lost to the world for ever...

James

 

[B. Sanders]

"James Annan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > None of these. I'm perfectly willing to believe there's a flaw with current bicycle equipment,
> > brought on by adding discs without thinking about the dropouts.
> >
> > I wonder if this is part of the motivation for through-axles on freeride forks.
>
> Not supposed to be (it's claimed to be for increased stiffness, and none of the manufacturers will
> acknowledge that there is a design problem at all) but no doubt it will help to encourage the
> trend in that direction.
>
> > > Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack - part of my motivation is to investigate what is
> > > happening to my postings, since my recent posts
(and
> > > in fact whole sections of threads) have vanished from the Google archive.
>
> >
> > No answer for that....
>
> Seems like Google dropped just about everything over the weekend. Just think, all the combined wit
> and wisdom of countless thousands, lost to the world for ever...

What!?!? Are you kidding? That can't be!

-Barry

 

[B. Sanders]

"Jon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Please do be sceptical. I started by looking for the optimum pedal path of the foot, to achieve
as
> >constant a torque as possible. I.e not up and down and not round in a circle. Funny egg shape
> >where one side is collapsed in on itself.

Interesting. Is this assuming that the foot is active (ie: "ankling") or stationary relative to the
leg during the stroke? How did you determine the optimum path? Is it hypothetical, or based upon
ideal kinesiological conditions? I presume that the optimum path is determined by analyzing the
ideal choreography of major muscle groups throughout the pedal stroke to achieve the most continuous
power output. Is that substantially correct? It sounds a bit like the human interface for an
elliptical trainer.

> >I am aware that the bicycle transmission is efficient, just the transfer from human to bike that
> >can be improved.

I'm willing to believe this is possible, since there are well known "dead spots" in the circular
pedal stroke. What kind of gains are you expecting to achieve? Have you done mathematical modeling
of the system and/or built a working prototype and performed tests with it?

> Actually this is also quite efficient.

Is it impossible that a more efficient system could be developed? When elite racers are willing to
do anything for a 1% performance gain (aero wheels, for instance), I'm of the belief that our
inventor friend may be able to sell a product that offers any demonstrable benefits.

-Barry

 

[Jeff Wills]

"Openworld" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Biopace the foot still travels in a circle-I am looking to change the pedal(sorry mathematical
> term)/ path the foot follows.

Something like the Kingcycle K-drive perhaps?: http://web.uct.ac.za/depts/psychology/bok/kdrive.html

Jeff

 

[Risto Varanka]

Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
: Yes there is. The current $25000 "decimach" prize is available for hitting 82 mph in a world
: record attempt. Note that this is very close

I think there is/was a similar prize for watercraft. But those generally can't go much faster than
20 km/h, so maybe they are too boring.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi