Record rear brakes on Fondriest Carb level

[Darren Pearce]

Hello,
I am at present mounting my record group set onto my Fondriest Carb Level plus, Monumental frame. The rear brake stud does not appear to be long enough to hit reach the nut. I have tried a longer nut, but that is not the issue, it is that the inside of the rear drop out where the nut goes in seems to get slightly narrower not allowing the two to reach, please does anyonbe know what i am talking about and can help me
Darren

 

[tafi]

Hello,
I am at present mounting my record group set onto my Fondriest Carb Level plus, Monumental frame. The rear brake stud does not appear to be long enough to hit reach the nut. I have tried a longer nut, but that is not the issue, it is that the inside of the rear drop out where the nut goes in seems to get slightly narrower not allowing the two to reach, please does anyonbe know what i am talking about and can help me
Darren

Hmmm...
I think there's a bit of mixed terminology here. Rear road brakes do not mount on drop outs, they mount on brake bridges. Also your explanation sounds a bit confusing as first you say that the mounting stud isn't long enough (which it surely is unless there is a manufacturing problem with either the brake or the frame), before contradicting yourself and saying the hole is too narrow. Are you saying that the brake mounting hole is not wide enough for the brake nut?
Is the frame brand new?
Has it had any running gear on it before now?

I would first check to see if the frame is right and that there are no plugs pushed into the hole, then I would check the thread on the stud and the nut. If none of this brings any joy you may have to talk to whoever you bought the frame from. You might be able to find a narrower nut and longer ones also exist too.

 

[Darren Pearce]

obviously i cant explain it enough, but i shall try to.

The brake does actually bolt onto the drop out, it does not have a bridge. See the website for info if you think you can help me
fondriestbici.it
anyway, the nut is long enough, but inside the hole, from inside - out, about 5mm from the outside entry point, the hole is narrower? Hope this explains it. so the nut actually hits the frame at a point not allowing it to reach the stud, hope this sounds right. It is like i either need a smaller diameter nut with the same thread or a longer stud which i believe the studs are just standard
Please help me

 

[alfeng]

obviously i cant explain it enough, but i shall try to.

The brake does actually bolt onto the drop out, it does not have a bridge. See the website for info if you think you can help me
fondriestbici.it
anyway, the nut is long enough, but inside the hole, from inside - out, about 5mm from the outside entry point, the hole is narrower? Hope this explains it. so the nut actually hits the frame at a point not allowing it to reach the stud, hope this sounds right. It is like i either need a smaller diameter nut with the same thread or a longer stud which i believe the studs are just standard
Please help me

Okay, I'm an inquiring mind ... but, the web address isn't functional. Can you post a pic [cut & paste it from the site] of the NON-bridge mount that you are talking about?

Has your frame been built before OR is it new?

It may be possible that YOU will be required to "drill" out the opening to accommodate the recessed nut ... i.e., a consequence of EITHER "poor" quality control OR failure by Fonrdriest to prep the frame (echoes-of-the-past & steel frames from "small" builders).

 

[doclabyrinth]

Okay, I'm an inquiring mind ... but, the web address isn't functional.

Try http://www.fondriestbici.com/

 

[John M]

Try http://www.fondriestbici.com/

I suspect that alfeng is correct that the hole is a bit narrow due to slight manufacturing error. Careful drilling out of the hole should fix the problem. Before that I would see if a different brand of bolt is a little narrower than the Campy one.

 

[kdelong]

I think that there is not a problem with the frame. By the look of the frame, you may have to use two front brakes instead of a front and a rear brake. The stud for a front brake is longer than on most rear brakes. You want the nut to bottom out in the frame to pull the brake calipers up tight against the frame. This prevents the brakes from rotating freely in the frame. A lot of newer bikes do this.

Alfeng, in case you can't get to the site, this frame doesn't have traditional seat stays. It has a single tube that extends from the seat and then splits into the seat stays. There is no real brake bridge, it has been integrated into the single tube. There is just a hole very near where the seat stays split out fron the single tube.

 

[Darren Pearce]

Does anyone know if the shimano studs are longer than Campy? if so i think i will buy a dura-ace groupie and convert, not to happy though, becuase the black record stuff looks absolutely awesome on the frame! There has to be someone out there with record gear on this frame that can help, please can all pass the word around or keep your eye out for one on your rides,
"stay safe on your rides, use heaps of safety gear"
Darren

I think that there is not a problem with the frame. By the look of the frame, you may have to use two front brakes instead of a front and a rear brake. The stud for a front brake is longer than on most rear brakes. You want the nut to bottom out in the frame to pull the brake calipers up tight against the frame. This prevents the brakes from rotating freely in the frame. A lot of newer bikes do this.

Alfeng, in case you can't get to the site, this frame doesn't have traditional seat stays. It has a single tube that extends from the seat and then splits into the seat stays. There is no real brake bridge, it has been integrated into the single tube. There is just a hole very near where the seat stays split out fron the single tube.

 

[tafi]

obviously i cant explain it enough, but i shall try to.

The brake does actually bolt onto the drop out, it does not have a bridge. See the website for info if you think you can help me
fondriestbici.it
anyway, the nut is long enough, but inside the hole, from inside - out, about 5mm from the outside entry point, the hole is narrower? Hope this explains it. so the nut actually hits the frame at a point not allowing it to reach the stud, hope this sounds right. It is like i either need a smaller diameter nut with the same thread or a longer stud which i believe the studs are just standard
Please help me

If the hole diameter is the problem (not allowing it to reach the end of the stud) then you need a smaller diameter nut. If you get a longer stud (such as with another front brake) you will still run into problems. I do NOT recommend drilling ANYTHING.

Go back to where you bought it and discuss with the salesman.

PS: The drop out is where the axle ends sit in the frame (where the seat and chain stays meet). I would still call it a brake bridge even though the frame has has a monostay.

 

[alfeng]

I think that there is not a problem with the frame. By the look of the frame, you may have to use two front brakes instead of a front and a rear brake. The stud for a front brake is longer than on most rear brakes. You want the nut to bottom out in the frame to pull the brake calipers up tight against the frame. This prevents the brakes from rotating freely in the frame. A lot of newer bikes do this.

Alfeng, in case you can't get to the site, this frame doesn't have traditional seat stays. It has a single tube that extends from the seat and then splits into the seat stays. There is no real brake bridge, it has been integrated into the single tube. There is just a hole very near where the seat stays split out fron the single tube.

Thanks. I was able to see a pic with the corrected web site address.

And, as tafi indicates, it is generally referred to as a monostay.

Also, as tafi suggests, drilling should be thought of as a last-resort for those who are NOT handy.

Now, as to whether the brake bolt/"stud" is longer on a Shimano than a Campagnolo rear caliper -- on a 6500 (Ultegra) rear brake caliper that I have, the brake bolt is about 1 millimeter longer than a Record (pre-Skeleton) rear brake caliper that I have. Probably not enough to make a difference.

Have you [Darren] threaded the recessed nut onto the brake bolt AND held it against the outside of the brake "bridge" of the monostay?

I think I have (encountered) at least 4 different lengths of recessed nuts ...

BUT, I have also encountered recessed nuts whose heads have DIFFERENT diameters ... and, that may be a partial source of your problem -- that is, the recessed nut is not seating all the way into the rear of the frame's brake hole.

To state what is obvious to many, some FORKS need a longer recessed nut [e.g., Kestrel, Alpha Q (?), etc. ... the appropriately longer recessed nut comes with those forks] because of the design of the fork's shoulder, and this may be the case with your frame's rear brake hole, too. So, again, tafi may be on-the-money with his suggestion that you need a longer recessed nut AND/OR that you should contact the seller.

BTW. A longer recessed nut is a lot less expensive than a new group!

 

[Darren Pearce]

ok i have fixed the problem. i have not got one of those sharp little washers to go between the frame and brake and i cut the nut a little lshorter so the thread is immediate and not into the nut as it was before about 1mm in. But i would really like to thank all people for their help
Thanks
I rode the bike for the first time in a 60k race and got second, was very slow down hills as i put it together in a real rush on Saturday, but it feels great!
And looks like a piece of art my mates tell me

Thanks. I was able to see a pic with the corrected web site address.

And, as tafi indicates, it is generally referred to as a monostay.

Also, as tafi suggests, drilling should be thought of as a last-resort for those who are NOT handy.

Now, as to whether the brake bolt/"stud" is longer on a Shimano than a Campagnolo rear caliper -- on a 6500 (Ultegra) rear brake caliper that I have, the brake bolt is about 1 millimeter longer than a Record (pre-Skeleton) rear brake caliper that I have. Probably not enough to make a difference.

Have you [Darren] threaded the recessed nut onto the brake bolt AND held it against the outside of the brake "bridge" of the monostay?

I think I have (encountered) at least 4 different lengths of recessed nuts ...

BUT, I have also encountered recessed nuts whose heads have DIFFERENT diameters ... and, that may be a partial source of your problem -- that is, the recessed nut is not seating all the way into the rear of the frame's brake hole.

To state what is obvious to many, some FORKS need a longer recessed nut [e.g., Kestrel, Alpha Q (?), etc. ... the appropriately longer recessed nut comes with those forks] because of the design of the fork's shoulder, and this may be the case with your frame's rear brake hole, too. So, again, tafi may be on-the-money with his suggestion that you need a longer recessed nut AND/OR that you should contact the seller.

BTW. A longer recessed nut is a lot less expensive than a new group!